Parent Not At Work..

[thatdivalady]

Exactly. I'm not a fan of the "you're home so you should pick up your kid because it would be nice for me to get off early too." Providers are not employees and it isn't fair to put the parents in that position if the provider wants to be seen as a business owner and not an employee.

I'm not sure where I am on this because I think it depends on your perception. When I worked for an employer I received 2 weeks of vacation paid. I also received sick days and personal days. In my area, it is hard as an in-home provider to get the same thing. And yes I do know there are people who do it, I'm just saying that it would be hard to fill spots taking some of the days that other providers on this forum do.

No, I don't think I'm OWED time. But I do believe that providers should have as much time as possible for r&r. On a more personal note, as a parent, I understand needing some time off to run errands, etc. But I balanced the two things when my daughter was with an in-home provider and there is a difference between taking some time from time to time and just generally taking advantage. I also understood that for my child alone she was being paid way less than minimum wage so I did not want to take advantage and believed that she was definitely entitled to recharge time. Is it the parent's fault if your numbers are down? No, but it is a reality. If I were to close down my alternative hours I would probably be better off financially but there would be more parents in the world who would have no alternatives (no other family members in the area, no other providers willing to do those hours). So yes, I definitely need my "me" time!

[Mom&Provider]

I'm talking about the general attitude from some providers that seem to think the parent should be thinking about them (the provider) and their families/lives, etc. Some of the posts on this thread have left me with that feeling of "owing" the provider time off - not yours.

I don't think I am "owed" anything, but I do get offended when parents feel/act like I owe THEM something! When I need a day to do something for myself (a Dr.'s app for example) or my own children (stomach flu for example), I get a hard time for it.

It's not that I want free time, so they'd better come early when they can and not send their children at all when they are off, BUT I also don't agree that it's ok for some parents to send their children from open to close on a regular basis even when they are home. That's not about giving me free time, I won't have that anyway since I have other kids here, but it's for their own child's benefit and it's being honest, upfront and respectful of me and my time...yes I said my time...not because they "owe" me anything, but because these parents in my case are also the parents who have the day off and don't show up till I close or after!

[Mom&Provider]

Exactly. I'm not a fan of the "you're home so you should pick up your kid because it would be nice for me to get off early too." Providers are not employees and it isn't fair to put the parents in that position if the provider wants to be seen as a business owner and not an employee.

If I'm not an employee, then why do they pay me? Why am I 'hired' so to speak to care for their child? Just curious what you call yourself then? On my taxes, I am self employed, which kinda makes me my own employee too. Yes, I own and run my own daycare, but what I/you put in your contract are the details of caring for their child. Some providers include paid time off, sick days etc. Just because I own the business, does not mean that I am not employed by the parents...if they didn't' pay me, I wouldn't' be self-employed, I'd be unemployed.

[RosieMommy]

If I'm not an employee, then why do they pay me? Why am I 'hired' so to speak to care for their child? Just curious what you call yourself then? On my taxes, I am self employed, which kinda makes me my own employee too. Yes, I own and run my own daycare, but what I/you put in your contract are the details of caring for their child. Some providers include paid time off, sick days etc. Just because I own the business, does not mean that I am not employed by the parents...if they didn't' pay me, I wouldn't' be self-employed, I'd be unemployed.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. A provider is not by any definition an employee. You are a service provider, similar to a doctor, a mechanic, lawyer, etc -- you provide a service for which I may contract you to provide. You control your hours, do not work under my direction or control, work at your own location etc. I wouldn't call my doctor my employee nor do I call my childcare provider that.

I am self employed because I work for myself and a company which I control (my practice). I provide services to people but I do not work under the direction and control of another person.

[RosieMommy]

I'm not sure where I am on this because I think it depends on your perception. When I worked for an employer I received 2 weeks of vacation paid. I also received sick days and personal days. In my area, it is hard as an in-home provider to get the same thing. And yes I do know there are people who do it, I'm just saying that it would be hard to fill spots taking some of the days that other providers on this forum do.

No, I don't think I'm OWED time. But I do believe that providers should have as much time as possible for r&r. On a more personal note, as a parent, I understand needing some time off to run errands, etc. But I balanced the two things when my daughter was with an in-home provider and there is a difference between taking some time from time to time and just generally taking advantage. I also understood that for my child alone she was being paid way less than minimum wage so I did not want to take advantage and believed that she was definitely entitled to recharge time. Is it the parent's fault if your numbers are down? No, but it is a reality. If I were to close down my alternative hours I would probably be better off financially but there would be more parents in the world who would have no alternatives (no other family members in the area, no other providers willing to do those hours). So yes, I definitely need my "me" time!

I think perception is key for sure and perception isn't always consistent among parents and providers. I get your point about when you worked for an employer but providers are not employees, they are service providers so you lose those benefits you received when you were an employee because you are considered self employed. That is, unless you contract for it, which my provider does. I don't pay her paid vacation etc because I think she's owed it or deserves it just because she takes care of my child (I find that kind argument citing your child somewhat emotionally manipulative). I pay it because it's part of her contract, we like her and at the end of the day, are willing to pay it in exchange for what we receive. If it becomes a problem for us, we will go somewhere else.

I agree that providers need down time and time to recharge. My problem with the perception of being owed downtime like in the example I cited is that as the provider, you set your hours, you decide when you're going to work. Now, as someone who owns her own business, I get that even deciding what hours you are going to work is not completely free from restriction -- cash flow and other factors may dictate that you work not necessarily when you want or you take on clients that you might not want etc. But, that's kind of the cost of being in business for yourself. I cannot tell you of how many problem clients I have and clients I WISH I could fire, but I'm running a business, I need to make money, I have to make payroll etc. But at the end of the day, those are decisions *I* make because it's *my* business. So to me, if you're contracted to care for someone's child from 11am until 4pm, that's what you agreed to do in exchange for the things you bargained for -- a certain rate per week, paid vacation, or whatever it is. As the provider, you also decide when you want downtime. If you don't want to work until 4, you have the power to not take clients that will require that. So with that in mind, I just don't think it's fair to hold being tired or wanting a break over the parent's head just because the parent is at home for the day and sending their kid to daycare.

Now I'm not a provider so maybe if I were I'd feel differently, but as a parent, I didn't feel like my provider had less bargaining power than I did. In fact, I felt the opposite because I felt to a large degree she was calling the shots. And we really like her so we do everything in our power to keep her happy so she keeps us as clients (and of course we do what is fair and right like PAYING HER ON TIME and not picking up our child late). But my point is, I felt like she was in a position to ask for what she needed and wanted so I don't personally feel guilty if I take a day off while sending my child to daycare and I don't know why she would feel upset if I were to do that.

[thatdivalady]

I don't pay her paid vacation etc because I think she's owed it or deserves it just because she takes care of my child (I find that kind argument citing your child somewhat emotionally manipulative).

So to me, if you're contracted to care for someone's child from 11am until 4pm, that's what you agreed to do in exchange for the things you bargained for -- a certain rate per week, paid vacation, or whatever it is. As the provider, you also decide when you want downtime. If you don't want to work until 4, you have the power to not take clients that will require that. So with that in mind, I just don't think it's fair to hold being tired or wanting a break over the parent's head just because the parent is at home for the day and sending their kid to daycare.

Now I'm not a provider so maybe if I were I'd feel differently, but as a parent, I didn't feel like my provider had less bargaining power than I did. In fact, I felt the opposite because I felt to a large degree she was calling the shots.

Why is my comment regarding my child emotionally manipulative? It is my personal experience and I thought we were allowed to share our experiences on this forum? I shared it because it gives you one of the reasons for my personal perspective and why I feel the way that I do. I have the benefit of having been a recipient of a provider and now being a provider myself.

I did not even touch on the point about parents picking up their child early just because they are home. My point was completely different so I don't think you thoroughly read my post

After reading further I see your disclaimer about not being a provider and so I'll end it there because without having had that experience you, to some degree, lack that perspective.

[Play Care]

I don't think I am "owed" anything, but I do get offended when parents feel/act like I owe THEM something! When I need a day to do something for myself (a Dr.'s app for example) or my own children (stomach flu for example), I get a hard time for it.

It's not that I want free time, so they'd better come early when they can and not send their children at all when they are off, BUT I also don't agree that it's ok for some parents to send their children from open to close on a regular basis even when they are home. That's not about giving me free time, I won't have that anyway since I have other kids here, but it's for their own child's benefit and it's being honest, upfront and respectful of me and my time...yes I said my time...not because they "owe" me anything, but because these parents in my case are also the parents who have the day off and don't show up till I close or after!

If parents are giving you a hard time for taking time off, then you need to put them on notice. If they are showing up after closing, then it's time for late fees or termination. That's your right as a business owner providing a service. I find parents are typically looking for reliable care so they don't have to worry about missing work or important appointments. And they pay for that, so yes, I owe them that because it's what I agreed to do when I started providing child care. If you have families that are abusing you, you will start to be resentful. Start advertising to get in new families and clean house. The best advice I ever received from a seasoned provider on getting parents to behave/follow rules was to get rid of the worst offenders and have their spots filled before they are even gone. This puts other parents on notice. And I've done it, it works

My parents are not my "boss" they don't take out taxes or social security from my paycheck - a requirement for employers.

Now, that doesn't mean that I want the type of parents who "dump" kids at dc. I keep my hours as short as possible - and I make it clear during my interview process that I can and will take time off and that any issues regarding that will find them looking for other care.

[RosieMommy]

Why is my comment regarding my child emotionally manipulative? It is my personal experience and I thought we were allowed to share our experiences on this forum? I shared it because it gives you one of the reasons for my personal perspective and why I feel the way that I do. I have the benefit of having been a recipient of a provider and now being a provider myself.

I did not even touch on the point about parents picking up their child early just because they are home. My point was completely different so I don't think you thoroughly read my post

After reading further I see your disclaimer about not being a provider and so I'll end it there because without having had that experience you, to some degree, lack that perspective.

I don't see where I was saying a comment you made about your child being emotionally manipulative. I think I didn't express that well and you misunderstood me. What I am saying is emotionally manipulative: a provider using the fact that they take care of a person's children as a reason to feel they are owed time, e.g., "I take care of your kids, the most important people in your life so you should want to give me a break." To me that's emotionally manipulative and really has nothing to do with how a provider at the end of the day chooses to run their business in terms of taking time off. Now, that doesn't mean that the provider is saying this in order to BE emotionally manipulative -- they may or may not be but that is the effect. That is what a lot of parents hear when a provider says that. Providers don't like it when parents do manipulative things ("Oh my gosh I can't pay you because this and this happened and can't you just work with us, I have nowhere to take my baby etc). I don't like it when my clients do it to ME.

Yes, I lack the perspective of a provider but I am providing another way of looking at things and I didn't feel like I was attacking anyone, including you or how you feel, so I'm really not sure why you took it that way. Further, I don't think my perspective is any less valid which is what you seem to suggest. You have the benefit of having been in both positions but I think I can offer something valuable to the discussion by bringing a different perspective of a parent. I thought I was respectfully disagreeing with you and/or stating my own perspective as a followup to what you were saying. I'm totally confused by your response.

And PS I read you post. I touched on parents bringing their children and staying home because that's essentially part of what this entire thread is about. As I said, it was a more of a followup to what you said. I wasn't speaking about you specifically at all.

[RosieMommy]

I don't think I am "owed" anything, but I do get offended when parents feel/act like I owe THEM something! When I need a day to do something for myself (a Dr.'s app for example) or my own children (stomach flu for example), I get a hard time for it.

It's not that I want free time, so they'd better come early when they can and not send their children at all when they are off, BUT I also don't agree that it's ok for some parents to send their children from open to close on a regular basis even when they are home. That's not about giving me free time, I won't have that anyway since I have other kids here, but it's for their own child's benefit and it's being honest, upfront and respectful of me and my time...yes I said my time...not because they "owe" me anything, but because these parents in my case are also the parents who have the day off and don't show up till I close or after!

I agree with Play Care.

If your clients give you a hard time when you take off time per your policies, then that's their problem and they need to find a provider who is never going to take off time. Honestly, if I were you, I don't even know if I'd get into the details of why I was closing or taking time off etc. As long as it was according to the policies and contract both parties agreed to, it's not really the parent's business what you are doing or why. But you can't always choose your clients and I understand that a lot of parents sign contracts they apparently don't read. But still...I encourage you to stick to your contract and handbook and enforce your policies. No late pick ups etc.

Do you have a preschool program for all of the kids in your care?