So How Does One Say I Am Not Getting In The Middle And Really Don't?

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  • mrsnj
    New Daycare.com Member
    • Jan 2013
    • 465

    So How Does One Say I Am Not Getting In The Middle And Really Don't?

    I mentioned before about a nasty divorce going on here with two of my kids (sisters). It is just getting worse. MY opinion is that mom is just plain about the most spiteful person I have ever set eyes on and dad is about as short tempered and stupid as they come! Dad tells me nothing which I really appreciate but Mom....mom tells me every single thing that happens every minute of the day! OMGoosh I am just over it!

    Here is todays event (which started yesterday)......Yesterday is the end of dads over night stay day(s). He comes back home in the morning so the girls can see mom before school and mom is in bed with a man (Mind you they have only been separated for three weeks! ) She refuses to answer the door. Leaves the girls standing outside. At this point the smart thing to do would have been to bring them here. He doesn't. He opens a window and put the girls in the house then drives over here and leaves the school age childs school bag here. Mom follows behind and drops off two screaming and crying children and is irritated that she has to drop off and leaves. I now have to put the school age child crying on the bus and it about breaks my heart and then deal with the other crying child! A complete mess.

    So mom is getting back at him. She gets a restraint order. Tells the judge he put the children at risk and now DYFS is getting called in too! Awesome!

    My husband seems to think I will get called into the middle of this cause mom seems to think I am her best friend or something!!

    Today at pick up, she arrives on the dot and sits down to 'chat' about all this and tell me about the restraint. So now we are going into after hours already. Then dad shows. He hasn't been served yet. Doesn't know about the restraint. She goes out and tells him as she is calling the police at the same time. He kisses the girls and leaves and goes home to get things and drives off (BTW they live like 5 houses away so I see what is going on) She leaves for home after he drives out of the development so she can meet up with the police......and leaves both children here. The police leave about an hour after my closing. She doesn't show for another 25 minutes. She now is a total of an hour and 25 minutes 'late' after my closing time. The girls are still here. My kids are starving and whining. We end up eating McDonalds at 7pm after I had texted mom and called to see why she wasn't there. That I saw the cruiser leave almost a half hour ago. This is NOT the first time she has done this!

    My question is....
    #1 I don't think this involves me and I doubt the courts care one way or the other my opinion. True? Or do you think I might?

    #2 If DYFS knocks on my door, am I within my rights to say "Sorry, not in the middle" and close the door? I know that unless it is court ordered, I don't have to say or do anything.

    #3 Silly question....you would charge for the hour and half late pick up? Half of me feels bad for the girls but......this isn't my 1st issue with her and late pick ups but she always has 'excuses' (like showing up an hour and half late because she got a new car and it took longer than she thought!)

    #4 She tells me the grandmom (dads mother) can't pick up. She isn't on the restraint. I tell her I believe I cannot tell her no. She says I have too. When I said I would have to check into it because it isn't legally documented on the restraint and I would have to call me lawyer she says "Oh oh yeah, she can pick up. Just she can't take the girls to him". Grandmom is on the pick up list BTW. The one MOM just refilled back out and handed to me today. Mom only has temp custody till next Thur. If Grandmom shows.....I can let them go? Yes? Or no?

    I know I can say this doesn't involve me but the truth is, it does and is. HOW much is the question. Where can I draw the line in this mess?
  • Blackcat31
    • Oct 2010
    • 36124

    #2
    I think you need to use the letter I posted in your other thread
    Daycare Center and Family Home owners, Directors, Operators and Assistants should post and ask questions here.


    it IS your business but ONLY part of it....kwim?

    Comment

    • MamaBearCanada
      Blessed
      • Jun 2012
      • 704

      #3
      I'm not really sure why you let her leave at pick up without her kids? I understand she had to talk to the police but that's not your problem. She could have called a family member/babysitter.

      I think you should charge. Send BC's letter and go by what paperwork you have. If she wants to chat tell her "Susie, sorry, I don't have time to chat right now. I'm sure you understand." Big smile. Usher her out.

      Comment

      • MarinaVanessa
        Family Childcare Home
        • Jan 2010
        • 7211

        #4
        #1 I don't think this involves me and I doubt the courts care one way or the other my opinion. True? Or do you think I might?
        If DYFS is already involved then yes, they may want to talk to you and may ask you for your observations of parent/child relationships.

        #2 If DYFS knocks on my door, am I within my rights to say "Sorry, not in the middle" and close the door? I know that unless it is court ordered, I don't have to say or do anything.
        Correct. Without a court order/subpoena you don't have to answer any questions BUT be clear and tell whoever it is "I'm sorry. I really want to remain a neutral party in this ordeal and will politely decline to answer any questions at this time. However if the court see's it necessary for me to answer questions I will gladly fill out a written list of specific questions if subpoenaed by the court with the understanding that I will only state facts and observations, not opinions." and leave it at that.

        #3 Silly question....you would charge for the hour and half late pick up? Half of me feels bad for the girls but......this isn't my 1st issue with her and late pick ups but she always has 'excuses' (like showing up an hour and half late because she got a new car and it took longer than she thought!)
        I would enforce my policies and my contract no matter what the circumstances were and remind her again that I am not to be placed in the middle or to be inconvenienced whatsoever by their personal issues. I am here for the children, not the parents.

        #4 She tells me the grandmom (dads mother) can't pick up. She isn't on the restraint. I tell her I believe I cannot tell her no. She says I have too. When I said I would have to check into it because it isn't legally documented on the restraint and I would have to call me lawyer she says "Oh oh yeah, she can pick up. Just she can't take the girls to him". Grandmom is on the pick up list BTW. The one MOM just refilled back out and handed to me today. Mom only has temp custody till next Thur. If Grandmom shows.....I can let them go? Yes? Or no?
        Unfortunately grandparents don't have "rights" to the children. Only the parents do. If DCM has an order (and you have a copy) that says that DCD can't be near the kids or the DCM and she has temporary custody of them then legally the DCM can decide who can and cannot pick the kids up. All she has to do is remove the grandma from the pick-up list. BUT make sure that there really is an order and that you have a copy of it. If you have this copy and mom says no then no, don't let them go or it's a liability issue with you.

        I know I can say this doesn't involve me but the truth is, it does and is. HOW much is the question. Where can I draw the line in this mess?
        I was hoping you were going to ask this. Say this to DCM and I can guarantee that she will think twice about telling you ANYTHING from this point on.

        "Susan, I really need to remind you that I need to remain neutral in this issue and that you really should not be telling me any details especially now that there is an ongoing case which includes DYFS and I'll tell you why. DYFS may come to my home and question me and I may be forced to answer many questions about what I have heard or seen from the DCK's, from you and from DCD. DCD tells me nothing so that's good but I now know that you were home and refused to open the door for DCD because you were in bed with a man. If I am questioned about it it is my moral and legal obligation to tell the truth. Do you see my dilemma? Please don't tell me anything else about your case or issues with DCD."

        I said something similar to a DCM when she tried to get me to listen to her problems and get me involved (wanted me to write a declaration and I told her that I had not seen any bad behavior and all I had seen was DCD being a great and loving father so my declaration would reflect that). She never said anything to me after that and never asked me again to get involved.

        Comment

        • mrsnj
          New Daycare.com Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 465

          #5
          I love that MarinaVanessa! Wonder if I can copy and read it to her cause I doubt I will say it so perfect in the moment!::

          Gotta say....She really doesn't want my opinion. It wouldn't all be in her favor.

          So with the Grandmom...she IS on the pick up list. The new one mom just filled out. She left her on there. Told me the restraint said I didn't have to send them with her. It doesn't. THAT would have been her time to remove the Grandmom but she didn't. So.......I should...............keep them???????? :confused: (...maybe it won't be an issue they will get this mess straightened out next week)

          I am a marshmallow. I admit it. My heart is breaking for these kids. On the other hand this mom is on my last nerve.

          Comment

          • itlw8
            Daycare.com Member
            • Jan 2012
            • 2199

            #6
            so mom locked the children out of the house even though she knew they would be coming home.... and dad is in trouble for getting them into the house and not leaving them on the doorstep?
            It:: will wait

            Comment

            • mrsnj
              New Daycare.com Member
              • Jan 2013
              • 465

              #7
              Yeah. Although it wouldn't surprise me if there was some word exchange at some point. Dad is a hot head. And she greatly enjoys pushing those buttons. I am sure the situation didn't go over well. The restraint says he put them in danger instead of dropping them off here.

              Last week...same day.....mom had not packed the girls well. Only had jammies and all. So dad left his new home early and drove them home so they could get dressed and packed up for the day.....mom never came home the night and had changed the locks on the door. The neighbor, who has a child getting on the same bus took the school age child and made her lunch and both girls went to school/daycare with the same clothes on from the last day. Mom shows up here a good two hours later to drop off suitcases for the girls for another stay over night. I just don't get it. Shame on mom is all I have to say and I would have been on the phone to my lawyer if I were him! BUT...instead yelling was a better option. *sigh* Poor sweeties. Neither deserve them at this point. They are equally messed up.

              Comment

              • Willow
                Advanced Daycare.com Member
                • May 2012
                • 2683

                #8
                Originally posted by mrsnj
                I mentioned before about a nasty divorce going on here with two of my kids (sisters). It is just getting worse. MY opinion is that mom is just plain about the most spiteful person I have ever set eyes on and dad is about as short tempered and stupid as they come! Dad tells me nothing which I really appreciate but Mom....mom tells me every single thing that happens every minute of the day! OMGoosh I am just over it!

                Here is todays event (which started yesterday)......Yesterday is the end of dads over night stay day(s). He comes back home in the morning so the girls can see mom before school and mom is in bed with a man (Mind you they have only been separated for three weeks! ) She refuses to answer the door. Leaves the girls standing outside. At this point the smart thing to do would have been to bring them here. He doesn't. He opens a window and put the girls in the house then drives over here and leaves the school age childs school bag here.........

                .........SNIP

                To dad:

                SAY WHAT??????????!


                Originally posted by mrsnj
                Mom follows behind and drops off two screaming and crying children and is irritated that she has to drop off and leaves.......

                .....SNIP

                To mom:

                SAY WHAT THE WHAT JUST HAPPENED?????????????????????

                At that point I would have told them both to take a flying leap.

                What disgusting behavior on both their part.


                I would have told them care is terminated effective immediately because what they're doing to their children is tantamount to abuse on BOTH their parts.

                Mom would have been required to take her children with her, there is no way I would have taken them in like that. I would have asked her to return for their things when she's given them a chance to calm down so as not to make the absolute ridiculous situation even worse for them.

                After they left I probably would have called the police to report the insanity and obvious emotional risk to the children who were obviously smack dab in the middle of an ugly @ss and very disgusting domestic dispute.


                I would not have allowed them to perpetuate their drama on me or bring their domestic dispute and abuse of their children onto my property.



                SHAME. ON. THEM. BOTH.


                (eta - to clarify I'm not hollering at you OP, none of this crap is your fault...iit just floors me the position some people put others and at times even their own children in....)

                Comment

                • mrsnj
                  New Daycare.com Member
                  • Jan 2013
                  • 465

                  #9
                  Just spent this morning reading over the whole restraint order. This is completely messed up. Honestly a lot of the info is even inaccurate. Either way, these girls are the ones getting caught in the middle and I just feel bad for them. Dad needs to stop taking moms bait or he will lose everything. She is out to win no matter who she hurts in the process.

                  What makes all this more interesting is that my family and theirs are sort of on a personal 'friendly' level because her school age daughter and my youngest are best friends. I have decided to block all facebook and text info from now on. She is using everything possible against him and I want OUT. And I think I need to stop playdates over there too with the girls. She will have to come here. I hate to do it but I think we need to start drawing a line. My family is more important here.

                  You guys have no idea how messed up this all is. *sigh*

                  I am really irritated that it is always, always after hours. She is already my late pick up (and no good reason). Then every time something happens I get stuck with these kids. Not 5 min. But sometimes hours! She finds out her husband is maybe cheating....two hours late. They get into a fight......an hour late. She had to call the police again.....another hour late. The car about just got my goat. Truly I could call DYFS on her for abandonment at times! There isn't a daycare around who would sit and wait while she handled her personal affairs (literately) while the kids sat there for hours.

                  I am thinking of advertising to fill spots. I am kinda over it.

                  Comment

                  • MotherNature
                    Matilda Jane Addict
                    • Feb 2013
                    • 1120

                    #10
                    Yikes! What a horrible situation. I would definitely terminate. I know you want to be the stable person in those poor kids' life, but if it involves all the drama the parents are bringing, I think I'd distance myself at least by setting them straight along the lines of what MarinaVanessa said.

                    Comment

                    • MarinaVanessa
                      Family Childcare Home
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 7211

                      #11
                      I feel so bad for the girls .

                      I know it's hard to enforce your rules but if you don't command respect then how you can expect your clients to respect you. Don't make their issues your issues. If you can't find the courage to talk to her because you are a "marshmallow" (a big softy) then type up a letter better yet, type up two and have her sign one.

                      One letter can be an agreement to no longer involve you or tell you any personal matters relating her and DCD and to keep any discussions only to matters about the girls as they relate directly and only to child care. Also give notice that effective immediately ALL policies will be fully enforced and mention that you will follow through with all penalties including late pick-up fees.

                      The second one can be a two week notice of termination.

                      Have her choose one or the other. If she asks why, wants to negotiate or tries to argue ....

                      DCM: But it's sometimes hard too get here on time ... (cut her off)
                      YOU: It's either this (point to letter #1) or this (letter #2).
                      DCM: I just don't think that ....
                      YOU: It's either this (point to letter #1) or this (letter #2).
                      DCM: But sometimes I can't ....
                      YOU: It's either this (point to letter #1) or this (letter #2).

                      Rinse and repeat. If she doesn't choose for herself make the choice for her and take letter #1 off the table.

                      Comment

                      • EntropyControlSpecialist
                        Embracing the chaos.
                        • Mar 2012
                        • 7466

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mrsnj
                        I love that MarinaVanessa! Wonder if I can copy and read it to her cause I doubt I will say it so perfect in the moment!::

                        Gotta say....She really doesn't want my opinion. It wouldn't all be in her favor.

                        So with the Grandmom...she IS on the pick up list. The new one mom just filled out. She left her on there. Told me the restraint said I didn't have to send them with her. It doesn't. THAT would have been her time to remove the Grandmom but she didn't. So.......I should...............keep them???????? :confused: (...maybe it won't be an issue they will get this mess straightened out next week)

                        I am a marshmallow. I admit it. My heart is breaking for these kids. On the other hand this mom is on my last nerve.
                        If Grandma is on the pick-up list that MOM filled out then Grandma can pick the children up. Anyone on the list Mom gave you can pick those children up.

                        Comment

                        • EntropyControlSpecialist
                          Embracing the chaos.
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 7466

                          #13
                          Originally posted by mrsnj
                          Just spent this morning reading over the whole restraint order. This is completely messed up. Honestly a lot of the info is even inaccurate. Either way, these girls are the ones getting caught in the middle and I just feel bad for them. Dad needs to stop taking moms bait or he will lose everything. She is out to win no matter who she hurts in the process.

                          What makes all this more interesting is that my family and theirs are sort of on a personal 'friendly' level because her school age daughter and my youngest are best friends. I have decided to block all facebook and text info from now on. She is using everything possible against him and I want OUT. And I think I need to stop playdates over there too with the girls. She will have to come here. I hate to do it but I think we need to start drawing a line. My family is more important here.

                          You guys have no idea how messed up this all is. *sigh*

                          I am really irritated that it is always, always after hours. She is already my late pick up (and no good reason). Then every time something happens I get stuck with these kids. Not 5 min. But sometimes hours! She finds out her husband is maybe cheating....two hours late. They get into a fight......an hour late. She had to call the police again.....another hour late. The car about just got my goat. Truly I could call DYFS on her for abandonment at times! There isn't a daycare around who would sit and wait while she handled her personal affairs (literately) while the kids sat there for hours.

                          I am thinking of advertising to fill spots. I am kinda over it.
                          Why are you allowing this to happen? Why are you not charging a late fee???????

                          I charge $1.00/minute per child if you are late. I WILL charge you if you are even 1 minute late. I can guarantee that if you begin charging her and NOT accepting the children back into care until that late fee is paid that she'll start magically being on time.

                          Comment

                          • mrsnj
                            New Daycare.com Member
                            • Jan 2013
                            • 465

                            #14
                            Blackcat31 - In your letter you state that "If the court feels they need my opinion, they will provide me with a list of written questions I will answer to the best of my ability." Can you request that? I mean is that an option you can say you will only do? What if they call or want to come to you or ask you to go in and talk to them in other words? What if a clients lawyer contacts you and asks you to speak on the clients behalf?

                            I just called a friend of mine....actually an old client of mine .....who works for DYFS. She actually heads the county department (bless her soul). I asked her what would happen, if I would get ****ed in and what I could do. She said that if the courts feel that the children are at risk they are likely to contact me. She isn't sure if it will be a visit or phone or writing. Said it varies on the situation. She did say it might be held off till after the hearing next week to see if DYFS would even need to be called in since there was no physical violence that warranted the restraint order. So they might wait and see what the courts say next week. But in the end they will be called in more likely than not. Yea! So she said I can tell them and answer the questions or I can simply say that I do not feel there is an issue in regard to the children's welfare and I feel it is a basic nasty divorce and that I wish to remain a neutral party. She did say that if I make a statement and the children are removed from one parent to another and there is a nasty custody battle, my statements will be noted in a file that either can view. NOT going there. If I truly believed there was an issue...in a second. But I think the parents are just being stupid and immature. I think mom thought it would be a great move back at him and it opened a Pandora's Box she wasn't expecting. So I am unsure which direction I am going to go.

                            I DO think I need to set grounds here. Clear grounds. That mom can read and understand and not come back and say "But I didn't know that" so I might pull some of the things from the letter. Why I wanted to know if that comment above was a move on your part and say you will only do it in writing or what.

                            Comment

                            • My3cents
                              Daycare.com Member
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 3387

                              #15
                              Originally posted by mrsnj
                              Yeah. Although it wouldn't surprise me if there was some word exchange at some point. Dad is a hot head. And she greatly enjoys pushing those buttons. I am sure the situation didn't go over well. The restraint says he put them in danger instead of dropping them off here.

                              Last week...same day.....mom had not packed the girls well. Only had jammies and all. So dad left his new home early and drove them home so they could get dressed and packed up for the day.....mom never came home the night and had changed the locks on the door. The neighbor, who has a child getting on the same bus took the school age child and made her lunch and both girls went to school/daycare with the same clothes on from the last day. Mom shows up here a good two hours later to drop off suitcases for the girls for another stay over night. I just don't get it. Shame on mom is all I have to say and I would have been on the phone to my lawyer if I were him! BUT...instead yelling was a better option. *sigh* Poor sweeties. Neither deserve them at this point. They are equally messed up.
                              My advice to you is to stay out of it. Conduct business on a need to know basis. Too much drama for another mamma- Stay out of it. Know where and to who the kids are supposed to come and go with. IF they don't have what they need tell the person that picks them up and let them handle it.

                              It does stink to watch this unfold and be helpless to it, but it is in your best interest to separate. BC's letter was point on.

                              Comment

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