Pretending and Violence

[rmc20021]

How do you handle your dck (especially boys) with the pretend violent play...such as using action figures etc shooting and fighting?

I've never allowed any type of toy guns or such in my daycare, and with the recent violence at schools and kindergardeners being suspended from school for using their fingers in a shooting position, I feel it's more necessary than ever to guide the kids away from this type of play.

It seems ALL the boys want to constantly pretend shoot and beat up when they are using action figures (and have tried to include the baby dolls in their play as well)

I'm CONSTANTLY telling them we don't do that here, that if their parents allow it at their houses it's between them and the parents but WE do not do that here.

The boys I have ALL play these video games at home where there's shooting and such. I talked to one dcd and he said, "oh, he pretends to be blowing things up etc...but tries to steer me away from the idea he's 'shooting'. I watch them do it every day and I tell them every day it's not allowed, but I know as long as they are allowed to do it at home, they will continue with that behaviors anywhere.

I've even put the boys into time out to be consistent in my rules against it. I talk to them all the time about how we don't hurt anything or anyone...even in pretend play.

How does everyone else handle this situation...if it's an issue in your daycare. I've had it with every boy I've had and I keep reinforcing my rule but it still keeps going on and I don't know what else to do.

I cannot term as my numbers are low as it is and it's my only source of income. Oh...these boys are all 4 yo, old enough to understand a rule once it's been explained to them and reinforced several times.

[canadiancare]

Action toys get tidied up if they are not used according to the rules of your home. There is no fighting allowed here and I don't allow the weapon accessories for the action figures, either. My own boys (now 21, 19) were allowed the figures but we opened the packaging and threw away the weapons. The X-Men could have a tea party or go mountain climbing but they weren't going to be fighting "bad guys".

[nannyde]

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13421&highlight=superhero

[Meyou]

I redirect to a different activity. I tell them that it isn't a good game for my house so let's find something else to do right now and give suggestions.

[Willow]

I loved this post from nannyde's link:

"I like to try to channel my boys' superhero tendencies towards real-life hero scenarios -- fire fighters, doctors, police officers. It doesn't always work, but they are naturally more active and looking for excitement for a reason -- they're born protectors. Instead of focusing on there being a bad guy, I like to focus on how they can help someone. Like "Oh no! The climber is on fire, and someone is trapped! We have to help them!". "


I don't do the action hero thing here. I have none nor will I ever. We don't do horseplay as I try to emphasize the importance of personal space, keeping hands to ourselves and being kind to our friends. No one is allowed to pretend shoot at anyone except critters (I live in a hunting capitol of the state). I do have a people bin with police and fire people along in the mix of all the occupations as well as a "Hunter Dan" bin where kids can set up deer stands, duck blinds and boats to hunt ducks, deer, bear, elk as well as fish. I also have nerf guns and bows kids can shoot the soft darts at hula hoop targets and such.

None of what I have or do promotes violence in play towards other human beings. I disagree that that's any kind of productive. The hunting play is guided in a very realistic way. All of my families hunt so they're all learning young what is lawful and ethical. I'd argue the exposure to it teaches appropriate use of firearms instead of the junk kids are seeing in action "hero" movies and cartoons.

[coolconfidentme]

I'm with the OP..., I don't allow play fight or pretend guns. I redirect as much as I can & given timeouts when they continue the behavior. A child hit another yesterday. He did it again after a timeout & was separated from the group. Today he did it again as I sat at the play table with them. We had a Come to Jesus Party & we are at DEF-CON 3 level with ZERO tolerance for aggressive behavior, fun or otherwise. They ALL know it's unacceptable & will get timeout every time from this point on. Mary Poppins has left the building!

[Heidi]

ON the other thread, this was one suggestion by Daycaremommy:

Well can't the provider just lead them into expanding their play without complete redirection? "Hey guys! I see an army of evil book-eating robots marching on the horizon! Quick! Help me build a fort to protect our books and keep them out!" To deter violence you could tell them that the robots are invincible except that they will short out if they get wet. So some kids may grab cups from the housekeeping center to throw water on the robots and another kid may choose to be Storm from the X-Men and make it rain on the robots and save the day. Now we're building with blocks, conveying that books are important, and we can branch off and talk about rain/clouds/weather and recite Jack and Jill. Just a silly example, but you get the general idea though. And through reading related or semi-related books that can help shift the play in different directions as well. It's not that big a leap from superhero to heroic knights in fairy tales. Then bam, they are into books and that is one of the best gifts we can give these guys in their early years. Not just the ability to read, but a love of books.

I think this would be a great way to handle it...

[rmc20021]

I went to the old posts and read a lot of them...I was just concerned I may be the only one who felt the way I do and maybe I could be wrong.

Now, I feel strongly about my original thoughts of not allowing the aggressive, violent, play fighting, play shooting with the action figures.

I wanted to boys to have something equivelent to the Barbies which the girls have as they like to 'pretend' with humanistic looking figures.

I've also encouraged them to use them in positive ways...saving someone from danger (without the fighting and shooting), jumping off tall buildings.

Back in the days when I was a kid, it was so normal for kids to have guns and play cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians. In todays world though, it's sad kids can't play like this anymore, but I also feel that with society being what it is, that's it's best to discourage these behaviors to protect the kids in future situations where even the simplist acts could cause serious consequences at school.

So I will follow and continue to enforce my rules and the parents are getting a 'lecture' about it tonight.

[canadiancare]

I went to the old posts and read a lot of them...I was just concerned I may be the only one who felt the way I do and maybe I could be wrong.

Now, I feel strongly about my original thoughts of not allowing the aggressive, violent, play fighting, play shooting with the action figures.

I wanted to boys to have something equivelent to the Barbies which the girls have as they like to 'pretend' with humanistic looking figures.

I've also encouraged them to use them in positive ways...saving someone from danger (without the fighting and shooting), jumping off tall buildings.

Back in the days when I was a kid, it was so normal for kids to have guns and play cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians. In todays world though, it's sad kids can't play like this anymore, but I also feel that with society being what it is, that's it's best to discourage these behaviors to protect the kids in future situations where even the simplist acts could cause serious consequences at school.

So I will follow and continue to enforce my rules and the parents are getting a 'lecture' about it tonight.

That is something I have written directly into my policies, as well. No violent play, toys or films are permitted.

[Jewels]

I personally believe this is something boys have been doing since the beginning of time, its who they are, its so normal, its boys being boys, as long as no one is really getting hurt, I allow all their imaginative super hero play, I don't have play guns, but think those are fine also, I remember playing all that with my brother, girls play pretend house boys plays super heroes, wrestling, cops robbers, this has been going on forever, they dont even need to have video games to pretend this, I have a few boys that I know have no video games at home, and pretend fight all the time, I think its sad its viewed as something wrong, its normal needed development for them..........dont get me wrong when the boys are in a pile on the floor, and being loud boys and the girls are all at the table drawing, sometimes I wish for an all girl daycare.

[Play Care]

ON the other thread, this was one suggestion by Daycaremommy:

Well can't the provider just lead them into expanding their play without complete redirection? "Hey guys! I see an army of evil book-eating robots marching on the horizon! Quick! Help me build a fort to protect our books and keep them out!" To deter violence you could tell them that the robots are invincible except that they will short out if they get wet. So some kids may grab cups from the housekeeping center to throw water on the robots and another kid may choose to be Storm from the X-Men and make it rain on the robots and save the day. Now we're building with blocks, conveying that books are important, and we can branch off and talk about rain/clouds/weather and recite Jack and Jill. Just a silly example, but you get the general idea though. And through reading related or semi-related books that can help shift the play in different directions as well. It's not that big a leap from superhero to heroic knights in fairy tales. Then bam, they are into books and that is one of the best gifts we can give these guys in their early years. Not just the ability to read, but a love of books.

I think this would be a great way to handle it...

I have tried unsuccessfully many times to redirect the play towards more positive pretending - rescuing people, saving kittens, etc I find they immediately go back to fighting - and I have a couple of BIG school aged boys that can unintentionally hurt the littles. Sooooo it's at the table with a provider led quiet activity(puzzles, reading, writing, etc.) I know that "rough" play is developmentally and age appropriate, but it's one of those things that they can do at home with mom and dad, IMO.

[SquirrellyMama]

I personally believe this is something boys have been doing since the beginning of time, its who they are, its so normal, its boys being boys, as long as no one is really getting hurt, I allow all their imaginative super hero play, I don't have play guns, but think those are fine also, I remember playing all that with my brother, girls play pretend house boys plays super heroes, wrestling, cops robbers, this has been going on forever, they dont even need to have video games to pretend this, I have a few boys that I know have no video games at home, and pretend fight all the time, I think its sad its viewed as something wrong, its normal needed development for them..........dont get me wrong when the boys are in a pile on the floor, and being loud boys and the girls are all at the table drawing, sometimes I wish for an all girl daycare.

Beautifully said!

[Willow]

I personally believe this is something boys have been doing since the beginning of time, its who they are, its so normal, its boys being boys, as long as no one is really getting hurt, I allow all their imaginative super hero play, I don't have play guns, but think those are fine also, I remember playing all that with my brother, girls play pretend house boys plays super heroes, wrestling, cops robbers, this has been going on forever, they dont even need to have video games to pretend this, I have a few boys that I know have no video games at home, and pretend fight all the time, I think its sad its viewed as something wrong, its normal needed development for them..........dont get me wrong when the boys are in a pile on the floor, and being loud boys and the girls are all at the table drawing, sometimes I wish for an all girl daycare.

I think it's interesting that you think fighting is normal and needed development for boys. My son has never played like that and he's doin' just fine

On the topic of what has been done since the beginning of time, how far back are we goin' here? 10 years ago you could carry a pocket knife with you to school and no one thought anything of it. 20 years ago kids at my husbands high school had their shot guns proudly displayed in the back windows of their trucks so they could head out and hunt at the end of the day. 30 years ago seat belts for children were optional. 40 years ago it was alright to let your kids run off the whole day and not expect them home until supper. 50 years ago if you mouthed off to your parents they could beat your behind black and blue and no one would say anything other than you probably deserved it. 60 years ago it was so much as expected for kids to marry in their teens. 75 years ago children were expected to be seen and not heard and education for most rarely exceeded middle school. 100 years ago illegitimate pregnancies were hidden and infants "sold" to other families or lived their lives out in orphanages. 150 years ago children were sold to pay off family debts and many lived as slaves.

One could argue because all those things were once common practice and socially acceptable that they should all be acceptable today. What is acceptable however obviously changes, often times for the good. We evolve because we know more and learn better.

I'd argue there is nothing beneficial about play fighting. Whether it hurts or hinders development and social relationships can be debated but I don't see anything about it that is essential to the growth and well being of boys. The physical aspect can be replicated with any gross motor skill activity and the social aspect can be replicated with ANY other scenario imagined up with a friend. In regard to the original post - I believe it hinders, especially when it gets to the point where boys are obsessed with it and will do nothing else as the original poster said is the case with her group.

[Blackcat31]

I agree with Jewels. maybe not for the same reason or for deeper reasons but I too allow my DCK's to play guns. Whether it be cops/robbers or cowboys at the OK Corral or even an infantryman in the army.

I don't allow games that are outright violent and certainly don't allow them to emmulate the highway sniper or the cop gone rogue type play but a goood ol' shootout as imaginary play is definitely allowed.

Toy guns/gun play are no more the cause of violence than toy kitchen sets are the cause of obesity.

Psychologist and author Glen David Skoler has argued that games involving toy guns and swords most often occur as boys are transitioning from the “amoral, self-centered, and unsocialized” world of toddlers. He calls this an “intermediary level of moral functioning,” where boys experiment with “games of good guys vs. bad guys and epic struggles between good and evil.”

(http://jonathanturley.org/2011/03/08...-and-toy-guns/)

I also think that comapring gun play from our childhoods to things like car seat safety are two COMPLETELY different types of truths.

Car seat laws changed because kids died and we now have the knowledge to do things in a safer manner.

Prohibiting gun play in childhood does not stop the issues we currently have with guns.

[Willow]

Prohibiting gun play in childhood does not stop the issues we currently have with guns.

I don't disagree with you there.

I was merely debating it's touted *necessity* and the theory that what is old practice is always relevant and best