Son Summarily Dismissed Because of Parents Question

[Crystal]

While I think the parent should be informed of any events that may occur in the program related to Gay Pride, and that it is the parents right to decide whether their child attends those events based on their families personal beliefs and values, and that the provider should respect a families personal beliefs and values, just as she would expect hers be respected, she has the right to terminate care for any reason she chooses.

It is unfortunate for your child, as it sounds as though there has been a wonderful caregiver/child/family relationship and I am sorry that you are now having to find another program for him. Best wishes to your family.

[professionalmom]

Wow, this could really turn into a very heated debate since it is a very touchy subject. I do agree that they were within their rights to kick you out based on discrimination, especially if it is in direct opposition to their philosophies. It is their business and they can do what they want. That being said, I truly see your point of view. You are the parent. This is YOUR child and you want to raise your child the way you see fit and with your moral and religious beliefs, whether others agree with those beliefs or not. The biggest problem here is that it sounds like this is a religious issue for you, yet you placed your child in a secular childcare setting. There were bound to be issues, whether this particular issue or some other. Often religious beliefs and the secular systems do not blend perfectly. I would advise you to seek out a faith-based childcare setting. You can do this with home daycare.

Personally, my DC kids would pray with me before meals and snacks. I would teach SOME Christian-based beliefs. During Christmas, we read about Santa and about Jesus. I always let the parents know that this was lightly touched on in my daycare. It wasn't all day, every day, just a little here and there. But, if any of my clients opposed, I would make accommodations. For instance, if I had a Jewish family, then I would have the children celebrate Christmas (secular and Christian) and Hanukkah. Then we would discuss the similarities in the 2 religions and the differences, stressing that we are more alike than different and that we need to respect each others beliefs.

As for the gay issue, I would not have Gay Pride activities or even mention it. I do not think it is my place to teach that it IS ok or that it IS NOT ok. That is for the parent to teach. However, if a child asked me, I would explain that gays and straights are (again) more similar than different (we all want to be loved, all feel pain, etc.) and deserve respect. That does not mean we have to agree, we just have to respect each other. That is the only thing I would teach on the subject, but it would not really be about teaching anything about that particular topic. The lesson would be a general lesson in respecting others and their points of view and beliefs, which transcends the specific issue of homosexuality, into a much broader topic, across the board, to varying issues.

Also, this would fall into one of those "at-will" type of situations. However, I could see it as discrimination against you and your beliefs. If it were the other way around and you requested that they include your child a Gay Pride celebration and they terminated for that, it would clearly be discriminatory. However, this is their business and as a former daycare provider and sole proprietor of my own business, I could not make special accommodations for each and every child. So if this would be a logistical problem for them (finding other activities for your child and providing a separate caregiver for your child during the activities), then they have the right to exclude your child. Although I think terminating was extreme. I would think that they could have just had you find alternate care for that week or whatever and then welcome your child back after it's all over.

Let me just say this on the issue, I think discrimination is always wrong. That does not mean that the OP or I or anyone else is a bad person for not standing up and screaming Gay Pride chants. We may not SUPPORT it or CELEBRATE it, but we can still respect it. I would never support violence (or even name-calling) against anyone who is gay. As a matter of fact, I have gay friends and personally, I think they can be some of the funniest and wittiest people I have ever known. However, from a religious standpoint, I believe it to be wrong. HOWEVER, I am not GOD and I could be the one who is wrong and misinterpreting God's word. That is why, I do not push my religious beliefs on others. So, please, do not take this as me being anti-gay, because I am NOT. I am more like Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"

[jen]

I was picturing them all doing the YMCA song!!! ::

[nannyde]

WOW! I don't know your provider, obviously, but I love her!!! It is so awesome to see people put whats right above making a buck! I think you have single handedly restored my faith in humanity...or rather she has.

Either that or we've been visited by a troll.

[nannyde]

I was picturing them all doing the YMCA song!!! ::

::::::::

I was at America's Incredible Pizza with DS a couple of weeks ago and they had a YMCA song blast in their foyer. It was SO cute seeing the little kids doing that song. Loved it.

[Crystal]

I'd love to see an explanation from the parent. Perhaps she is aware that the provider is gay, and while she respects that on a day to day basis, she prefers that her child does not participate in open celebrations about it, just as parents with differing religious beliefs may love their provider even though she may be of different religious beliefs, they do not have their child participate when there are religious holidays or celebrations. Same thing IMO.

[JenNJ]

They were well within their rights and I applaud them.

[nannyde]

I'd love to see an explanation from the parent. Perhaps she is aware that the provider is gay, and while she respects that on a day to day basis, she prefers that her child does not participate in open celebrations about it, just as parents with differing religious beliefs may love their provider even though she may be of different religious beliefs, they do not have their child participate when there are religious holidays or celebrations. Same thing IMO.

I had this family interview when my kid was three. They told me they were some religion that I don't remember. They had some food restrictions and a NO TV thing, but what I do remember was the no Christmas images. They told me they didn't want there to be a Christmas Tree in the house or any images of Santa. They didn't want any Easter Bunny Stuff or Leprechauns on St. Patty's day.

I told them NO. I'm not not having a Christmas Tree, presents, and Santa for my kid. Aint happening.

Now maybe I broke some laws and maybe I'm supposed to make those accomodations but I refused to do it. My dcp's all do Christmas, they celebrate Easter, we wear green on St Patty's. I'm not going to take away our identity to accomodate theirs.

I could see the TV thing and the meal accomodations but Christmas was where I drew my line.

The line that must not be crossed may be the "Gay Pride" line for that provider (if it's real).

[professionalmom]

Discrimination OR age-appropriateness issue?

Wow - the hostility! I knew this topic would elicit a lot of emotions. Here's a thought for EVERYONE. Did the OP say that she was against Gay Pride activities? No. Maybe, just maybe, she is of the opinion that this topic is inappropriate for this age group and should be addressed at a later age. It may not even be about personal beliefs. It may be an issue of timing and age-appropriateness.

I have a cousin whose son was in kindergarten or 1st grade this past year and part of their curriculum included the Holocaust. I have nothing against teaching children about this horrific era in history, however, I did think it was wholly inappropriate for this age group.

Please, let's not jump to the worst possible thought about the OP or call her/him names. Isn't this what is wrong in society? We jump to conclusions without knowing the full story or the full intentions of others. It is equally deplorable to lash out and bite the head off of someone who doesn't support gay pride celebrations as it would be to lash out and bite someone head off for being gay. Like I said before, just because someone doesn't support, celebrate, or shout Gay Pride chants, does not mean that the person is a horrible person or even a homophobe. Is the OP bashing gays or lesbians? No. She just does not want this topic taught to her child, at this age, and by someone other than her. That is her right! Have we forgotten that? Parents do have a right to teach their child about things when the PARENT decides it is appropriate.

Sheesh, give this OP break. She was not being mean in any way, yet some people are jumping down her throat and completely disrespecting her rights as a parent.

[momofsix]

Wow - the hostility! I knew this topic would elicit a lot of emotions. Here's a thought for EVERYONE. Did the OP say that she was against Gay Pride activities? No. Maybe, just maybe, she is of the opinion that this topic is inappropriate for this age group and should be addressed at a later age. It may not even be about personal beliefs. It may be an issue of timing and age-appropriateness.

I have a cousin whose son was in kindergarten or 1st grade this past year and part of their curriculum included the Holocaust. I have nothing against teaching children about this horrific era in history, however, I did think it was wholly inappropriate for this age group.

Please, let's not jump to the worst possible thought about the OP or call her/him names. Isn't this what is wrong in society? We jump to conclusions without knowing the full story or the full intentions of others. It is equally deplorable to lash out and bite the head off of someone who doesn't support gay pride celebrations as it would be to lash out and bite someone head off for being gay. Like I said before, just because someone doesn't support, celebrate, or shout Gay Pride chants, does not mean that the person is a horrible person or even a homophobe. Is the OP bashing gays or lesbians? No. She just does not want this topic taught to her child, at this age, and by someone other than her. That is her right! Have we forgotten that? Parents do have a right to teach their child about things when the PARENT decides it is appropriate.

Sheesh, give this OP break. She was not being mean in any way, yet some people are jumping down her throat and completely disrespecting her rights as a parent.

Well said

[Janet]

Sorry, but this is just sad to me...

Wow - the hostility! I knew this topic would elicit a lot of emotions. Here's a thought for EVERYONE. Did the OP say that she was against Gay Pride activities? No. Maybe, just maybe, she is of the opinion that this topic is inappropriate for this age group and should be addressed at a later age. It may not even be about personal beliefs. It may be an issue of timing and age-appropriateness.

I have a cousin whose son was in kindergarten or 1st grade this past year and part of their curriculum included the Holocaust. I have nothing against teaching children about this horrific era in history, however, I did think it was wholly inappropriate for this age group.

Please, let's not jump to the worst possible thought about the OP or call her/him names. Isn't this what is wrong in society? We jump to conclusions without knowing the full story or the full intentions of others. It is equally deplorable to lash out and bite the head off of someone who doesn't support gay pride celebrations as it would be to lash out and bite someone head off for being gay. Like I said before, just because someone doesn't support, celebrate, or shout Gay Pride chants, does not mean that the person is a horrible person or even a homophobe. Is the OP bashing gays or lesbians? No. She just does not want this topic taught to her child, at this age, and by someone other than her. That is her right! Have we forgotten that? Parents do have a right to teach their child about things when the PARENT decides it is appropriate.

Sheesh, give this OP break. She was not being mean in any way, yet some people are jumping down her throat and completely disrespecting her rights as a parent.

I will not give the OP a break on this subject. Kids learn how to discriminate in the first few years of their lives. Parents, whether they know it or not, help to shape their child's beliefs and if a parent is already setting the example that gay pride related activities are things that the chcild shouldn't be exposed to, then what do you think that the child will learn from that? I'll tell you. The child will equate being gay with being wrong and not natural. No disrepect intended but if you think that the OP's reasons for not wanting her child to take part or be around anything gay pride related is about the child being too young to know about these things then you are severely out of touch.

I just think that it's sad.

[kendallina]

While I think the parent should be informed of any events that may occur in the program related to Gay Pride, and that it is the parents right to decide whether their child attends those events based on their families personal beliefs and values, and that the provider should respect a families personal beliefs and values, just as she would expect hers be respected, she has the right to terminate care for any reason she chooses.

It is unfortunate for your child, as it sounds as though there has been a wonderful caregiver/child/family relationship and I am sorry that you are now having to find another program for him. Best wishes to your family.

I agree with this. Even as someone who was extremely pleased with the recent Prop 8 ruling, I cannot imagine discriminating against someone who asks only to be notified of any gay pride events (and, as others have said, why would a preschool have gay pride events?). There is no reason that this child should have been excluded from care because of something that the mother said. Had the mother said, "I don't want my children exposed to other gay families, do you have any here..." I would understand dismissing this child. All she asked was about gay pride events.

In this situation, I would have explained to the parent that while we have no plans for gay pride events, should the children talk about men marrying men or women marrying women, that discussion would be welcome just as any other discussion would be. Then, if the parent was uncomfortable with that, she could decide on her own that that center isn't a place where she'd feel comfortable.

The only thing that I can think of is that the provider may have other parents who are gay and wouldn't want any negative feelings from either side should the OP speaks out about her opinions.

Whatever the provider's reasons for dismissing this family from care, I am really surprised at the responses on this forum applauding her actions. Seriously, I'm dumbfounded.

Katy

[professionalmom]

I will not give the OP a break on this subject. Kids learn how to discriminate in the first few years of their lives. Parents, whether they know it or not, help to shape their child's beliefs and if a parent is already setting the example that gay pride related activities are things that the chcild shouldn't be exposed to, then what do you think that the child will learn from that? I'll tell you. The child will equate being gay with being wrong and not natural. No disrepect intended but if you think that the OP's reasons for not wanting her child to take part or be around anything gay pride related is about the child being too young to know about these things then you are severely out of touch.

I just think that it's sad.

There was no mention of the parent discriminating. We don't know what is being taught at home. Maybe they are teaching tolerance at home, but the parent wishes to teach her child that on HER own terms and with language that SHE feels is appropriate. The bottom line is that this is a topic of sexuality. And I am of the opinion that anything that has to do with SEXUAL orientation is completely inappropriate at this age. Are we going to start teaching sex ed in daycare now? Will children under 5 see two women holding hands or even maybe give each other a kiss? Sure. My mom and I give each other kisses all the time. Children should not be exposed to much more than this at this age. For all they know, the 2 women (or 2 men) are friends that are just showing that they care about each other. They do not need to know that the 2 women or men share the same bed or are in love or anything like that. For this age group, they just need to know that people are people and that we should all love each other and treat each other with respect. Period. They don't need to know what makes mom's relationship with dad unique from her relationship with other men or women. Just like they don't need to know that there are straight people, homosexual people, bisexual people, etc. People are people. Let the kids be kids for a while. We can shock them with all these gory details when they are a little older. And by gory, I mean sex in general. If you think about sex from a child's perspective, it is very gross, even french kissing sounds disgusting to them, let alone how a baby gets into the mommy's belly! Do you remember how mortified you were when you found out? I was positive I would never let anyone do THAT to me! LOL! But here I am pregnant with #2 & #3.

So, let's just let the kids be kids and let them be innocent a little while longer.

[Janet]

This subject hits a bit too close to home for me...

So I apologize if anyone is offended by my outrage. One of my daycare kids (who is no longer with me) said that gay people will all burn in Hell. He said this during our circle time and made 2 of the other kids cry when he said it. This prompted me to discuss it further so that I could reassure the other kids that were upset that what this little boy said is not true. I asked him if he knew what "gay" meant and he said he did and he said that God punishes the wicked and he sends them to Hell and they burn forever. He was 5 at the time. This is also the same kid that said that people who celebrate Halloween are going to Hell because it's devil worship. The comment that this child made about gay people prompted me to talk to the kids about love. I really and truly believe that love is such a beautiful gift to give and to recieve that it's shameful when people put restrictions on it. "2 men can't love each other" or "2 women can't love each other". How small minded is that??? Love is much too precious to be made wrong by people who are afraid that seeing a gay couple holding hands will emotionally scar their kids for life. Also, talking to children about gay couples doesn't mean that the children are getting sexual details. I think that the daycare did the right thing by letting the family go. I did the same thing with the kid in my care who was already a full-fledged bigot. I had to because I didn''t want him to poison the hearts of the other kids in my care. I won't have that. Maybe that's what the provider for the OP did. Maybe she could see the writing on the wall. I stand by my opinion that the OP has a prejudice against gay people because if she didn't, then she wouldn't have felt the need to address any Gay Pride related issues in the first place. If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck.

[jen]

So I apologize if anyone is offended by my outrage. One of my daycare kids (who is no longer with me) said that gay people will all burn in Hell. He said this during our circle time and made 2 of the other kids cry when he said it. This prompted me to discuss it further so that I could reassure the other kids that were upset that what this little boy said is not true. I asked him if he knew what "gay" meant and he said he did and he said that God punishes the wicked and he sends them to Hell and they burn forever. He was 5 at the time. This is also the same kid that said that people who celebrate Halloween are going to Hell because it's devil worship. The comment that this child made about gay people prompted me to talk to the kids about love. I really and truly believe that love is such a beautiful gift to give and to recieve that it's shameful when people put restrictions on it. "2 men can't love each other" or "2 women can't love each other". How small minded is that??? Love is much too precious to be made wrong by people who are afraid that seeing a gay couple holding hands will emotionally scar their kids for life. Also, talking to children about gay couples doesn't mean that the children are getting sexual details. I think that the daycare did the right thing by letting the family go. I did the same thing with the kid in my care who was already a full-fledged bigot. I had to because I didn''t want him to poison the hearts of the other kids in my care. I won't have that. Maybe that's what the provider for the OP did. Maybe she could see the writing on the wall. I stand by my opinion that the OP has a prejudice against gay people because if she didn't, then she wouldn't have felt the need to address any Gay Pride related issues in the first place. If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...then it's a duck.

I'm not offended! Gay Pride is no different than Martin Luther King Day in my book and I'm pretty sure we'd all be up in arms if the poster had said they didn't want thier kids to participate in that or Black History Day or Susan B. Anthony Day...