Follow Up On Thief DCG...Opinions?

[countrymom]

ok, I really think the other posters don't understand because of the age. Last summer dcg (she was 6) stole one of my sons (he's 9) nintendo games. I found out because when she asked me to charge her nintendo I checked the game she came in with and it had our name on it (I write our names on each one) I didn't comfront her either nor did I tell my kids. my kids would have been so livid because they buy the games with their own money. Big mistake.

by allowing her to get away with it and feeling sorry for her (because mom was in and out of the picture) she stole other stuff from us, polly pockets, money, cars. I had enough (I started to check her pockets and gma brought stuff back) she made it like she was the victim. She left that summer and I never saw her again. I shouldn't have to worry about a theif.

I think your being too easy on her. She's 8 yrs old. SHE KNOWS WHAT STEALING IS. Don't let her play the martar card with you, its not your problem that she's not adjusting well to the move, thats the moms problem and she needs to fix it, but to use stealing as an excuse is WRONG. So because she can't get adjusted gives her the right to steal from people are you kidding me!

I would also adress the child and set some ground rules (which I didn't and more stuff was stolen) I would let my family know too (which I also didn't) I would also let the girl know that I would not put up with her stealing in my house. Yes it sounds mean, but when you have a child who is very capable of understanding then its time to be mean.

good luck and I've been there, don't let her pity be an excuse.

[cheerfuldom]

Everyone has some really thoughtful posts to say

BUT it is up to you OP. We always say around here not to take other peoples problems onto yourself. It is very possible that this issue is not related to the move and had been a problem for this girl long before. Maybe mom is telling you the truth, maybe she is not. It is okay if you decide that this issue is just too much to deal with right now. You are not a bad person if you cant solve this or if you are not willing to deal with it.

After all this info, I hate to sound heartless but I would let this girl go. It is too stressful to have to watch one child like a hawk for days on end. Supervision is one thing but shadowing an older child, checking backpacks, dealing with your kids insecurities and hoarding things because of it....

I really do make daycare decisions based on my own kids. If they are unhappy and uncomfortable, its time to make a change. Yes this DCG needs help and stability and supervision....that doesnt mean it has to be you doing it. Perhaps she would be better off with a daycare that does not have the providers children in the household or that is not using family living space as daycare space.

I remember one time when I finally termed on very aggressive little boy. I really waited too long to term him, hoping things would change. I realized at the end that my daughter was spending huge amounts of time right next to me or perched as high as she could get on the couch.....she was trying to tell me in her own way that she did not even feel safe in her own home. I see now that it was wrong of me to keep a child here that was doing that to my own child. The very day he was gone, it was like a breath of fresh air for her....she could actually play and feel some freedom again.

[DaisyMamma]

I realize this girl needs help, but you are a mom first. If you don't want your children dealing with the stress then they don't have to. I personally would allow one more chance without sugar coating or hiding anything from the children.
I realize that the last thing she needs is change, so that's why you give her the one more chance. Make sure you are clear. Beyond that it's really not your problem. You can only do so much. There are other people to think about. I wouldn't be concerned about $.

[MyAngels]

I agree with Meeko, Countrymom and Cheer on this one.

If it were happening here I would be inclined to try to help her family deal with and eliminate the problem, but I don't have my kids living at home anymore. Cheer makes an excellent point about your family feeling safe in their own home.

[crazydaycarelady]

I would not term. I would put any bags/backpacks she comes with out of her reach and she does not get them until dcm picks up. Also I am assuming this issue has been discussed with the child. I would just tell her you are on to her antics and she better not pull anything.

[wahmof3]

Everyone has some really thoughtful posts to say

BUT it is up to you OP. We always say around here not to take other peoples problems onto yourself. It is very possible that this issue is not related to the move and had been a problem for this girl long before. Maybe mom is telling you the truth, maybe she is not. It is okay if you decide that this issue is just too much to deal with right now. You are not a bad person if you cant solve this or if you are not willing to deal with it.

After all this info, I hate to sound heartless but I would let this girl go. It is too stressful to have to watch one child like a hawk for days on end. Supervision is one thing but shadowing an older child, checking backpacks, dealing with your kids insecurities and hoarding things because of it....

I really do make daycare decisions based on my own kids. If they are unhappy and uncomfortable, its time to make a change. Yes this DCG needs help and stability and supervision....that doesnt mean it has to be you doing it. Perhaps she would be better off with a daycare that does not have the providers children in the household or that is not using family living space as daycare space.

I remember one time when I finally termed on very aggressive little boy. I really waited too long to term him, hoping things would change. I realized at the end that my daughter was spending huge amounts of time right next to me or perched as high as she could get on the couch.....she was trying to tell me in her own way that she did not even feel safe in her own home. I see now that it was wrong of me to keep a child here that was doing that to my own child. The very day he was gone, it was like a breath of fresh air for her....she could actually play and feel some freedom again.

BINGO!! This is IMO totally right on! I would probably term.

[Soccermom]

It is so nice to be able to come here and discuss these types of things with fellow DPs. I don't know what I would do without all of you.
Nothing is black and white with child care...there are always grey areas and odd things that come up, it is comforting to be able to talk things out with people who know where you are coming from.

**Hugs**

[lovemykidstoo]

It is so nice to be able to come here and discuss these types of things with fellow DPs. I don't know what I would do without all of you.
Nothing is black and white with child care...there are always grey areas and odd things that come up, it is comforting to be able to talk things out with people who know where you are coming from.

**Hugs**

I wish you luck, I really do. I'm sure it is beyond frustrating. I hope that things turn around quickly one way or the other. You care and that's what makes the difference!

[Blackcat31]

Not to add more fuel to this but how do you know mom really talked to a therapist? Maybe she is just saying that because she is trying (again) to make excuses for her dd and saying someone qualified said it makes it more believable than the words coming from her.

Also how does a therapist evaulate and advise about a child he/she hasn't seen and only knows info the mom provided which is kind of biases already since it is coming from mom who wants nothing more than to sweep this under the rug and not deal with it.

I only say all of this because I have 3 family therapists as DCM's and one is a child behavial specialist and ALL of them said they would NEVER advise a parent without seeing the child and ALL of them said they would NEVER excuse an 8 yr olds stealing as reactions to a move...they all advised that the girl is plenty old enough to understand right from wrong and knows full well what stealing means and the advice mom says she got from a therapist is what they would have said about a 3 yr old stealing things.

This girl needs some serious help. You are also risking the trust of your own children and I just don't want them to come back and be angry at you for helping the DCG and DCM keep this under wraps.

I understand that you would be out income if you termed but in all honesty, isn't the faith and trust your own children have in you worth more than that?

If you really want to keep them and not term, I would be tempted to tell DCM that she can stay ONLY if she is immediately placed in some sort of counseling and this can all be openly discussed so that EVERYONE who lives in your home is on the same page.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this as I know this can be a really uncomfortable and touchy situation.

[sharlan]

Not to add more fuel to this but how do you know mom really talked to a therapist? Maybe she is just saying that because she is trying (again) to make excuses for her dd and saying someone qualified said it makes it more believable than the words coming from her.

Also how does a therapist evaulate and advise about a child he/she hasn't seen and only knows info the mom provided which is kind of biases already since it is coming from mom who wants nothing more than to sweep this under the rug and not deal with it.

I only say all of this because I have 3 family therapists as DCM's and one is a child behavial specialist and ALL of them said they would NEVER advise a parent without seeing the child and ALL of them said they would NEVER excuse an 8 yr olds stealing as reactions to a move...they all advised that the girl is plenty old enough to understand right from wrong and knows full well what stealing means and the advice mom says she got from a therapist is what they would have said about a 3 yr old stealing things.

This girl needs some serious help. You are also risking the trust of your own children and I just don't want them to come back and be angry at you for helping the DCG and DCM keep this under wraps.

I understand that you would be out income if you termed but in all honesty, isn't the faith and trust your own children have in you worth more than that?

If you really want to keep them and not term, I would be tempted to tell DCM that she can stay ONLY if she is immediately placed in some sort of counseling and this can all be openly discussed so that EVERYONE who lives in your home is on the same page.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this as I know this can be a really uncomfortable and touchy situation.

I agree with Blackcat.

[Crystal]

I understand that the daycare child may have had some turmoil recently. But we ALL have turmoil in our lives at one time or another. That is no excuse for stealing. She is not a two year old who doesn't know what's she's doing. She's eight. Plenty old enough to know she is stealing and plenty old enough to be disciplined and face the consequences of her choices.

I wouldn't tip-toe around it. If you decide to keep the girl, she needs to know exactly what is going to happen.

She needs to know she is loved........BUT...

She needs to know that trust is gone and has to be earned back.
She needs to know she is going to be watched closely.
She needs to know she will get a deliberate pat down at pick up whether she likes it or not.
She needs to know that your daughter is very unhappy with her.
She needs to know that her choice of toys to play with is very limited.

Personally, I would also tell her that the police will be called if she steals as much as fluff off the rug.

Then she needs to begin the long hard climb back to being trusted and respected. It's a hard life lesson, but she needs to learn it NOW. Treading lightly around the child and putting it down to outside problems etc. etc. will only mean trouble later on when she is older and the consequences are so much harder.

The problem needs nipped in the bud right now. Either let her go, or be willing to issue some very tough love.

If you keep her enrolled, let your daughter know exactly what is going to happen. Let her know that people deserve a second chance, but that you put her first and will be diligent in making sure her things are safe. Tell her you will term care if the girl steps out of line.

I would not hush-hush a thing. The girl needs to know that feeling uncomfortable/embarrassed etc. are part of the consequences of doing something wrong.

She can still be loved, and have fun at your home and be accepted...but she needs to take responsibility. Cushioning her feelings will do her no good whatsoever in the long run.

THIS!!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!!!! happyfacehappyfacehappyface

[sahm2three]

Sorry this is so long....but there is a lot of info.

Talked to DCM over the phone yesterday and DCM disclosed that DCG has been taking things from all over for the past month. DCM was unaware that this was happening until incident at my house happened. She has since discovered that this is a problem. There are more items to be returned to us today (One item in particular which my DD will be livid about..).

I talked with DCM and told her that I expect DCG to apologize to my DD and not to me as the items taken do not belong to me.

We talked a long time and DCM has discussed with a child psychologist who has told her that this probably has a lot to do with the big move they have just made and that DCG is having trouble adjusting to her new surroundings. He said in time she should hopefully adjust and things will go back to normal for DCG and her family...but what if they don't?

As an adult who has taken many psychology courses at University, I completely understand what is happening and don't blame the child..however I am also a mom and this DCG is creating a negative, anxious environment for my children to come home to.

I have always said that if a child negatively affects my children, I will term as my own children come first...I am a mom first.

I do like DCG and we had all settled into a really great routine prior to this. Everyone got along and things were good. Also at this point in the year it is near impossible to replace SA DCKs. Without her and her sister, I am out 100$per week.

My kids are already stressed about the whole thing, they have hoarded so many things into their rooms that you can hardly walk in there. To a child, having anything taken from you is a huge deal.

I have put measures in place to try to avoid her taking anything else but she can be quite sneaky..

I told DCM that if I see DCG take things, I will call her out on it quietly and have her put them back and also if DCM finds things on her or in her bag to please return them discreetly..BUT if my children SEE her take things, I will have no choice but to term because I promised my kids that if she ever took something again she would be out, and I won't go back on that promise.

What are your opinions on this whole thing? Should I have just termed on the spot or should I keep trying with this DCG?

I had a boy who stole countless things from my home while here. When we found out, we talked to him and told him it wasn't ok, made him apologize and then when it happened again, the mom and I decided that the child would be "patted down" before leaving my home. I felt bad at first, but it did keep him from doing it.

[MizzCheryl]

I would search her daily!. Look thryu her bag and make her empty all pockets. Mom should too.

[My3cents]

I had a boy who stole countless things from my home while here. When we found out, we talked to him and told him it wasn't ok, made him apologize and then when it happened again, the mom and I decided that the child would be "patted down" before leaving my home. I felt bad at first, but it did keep him from doing it.

for a little child yes, but for an older child.......no way. I am not going to pat a child down, the parent can do this.

If you want to borrow something from me, just ask, most likely I will let you borrow it, but don't take my things. I worked hard for them.

I had one that liked shiny stuff. Would take detour from the bathroom right into my kids rooms and take anything that had a bling. When the mom brought back the finds and made the child apologist everything was gold and shiny and like what you would find in a hawks nest. Right around 8-9. A learning experience. My kids felt violated, but they knew I didn't let this child do this. My own kids learned from this but now they are grown up and they will never forget it. Remember that kid........ I didn't term, the parents were mortified and the family in general were good people. It was just something this child wanted to try for a bit. It was hard to trust this kid after this and it gave you a bad feeling about the child, but now looking back it was a stage this child went through as a kid. His brain new better then to take but he just wanted to see what he could get away with and maybe he thought he was going to be rich off his finds some day.

I say give the child another chance but make it known you will not tolerate stealing and that is not how your family does things. It is wrong to take something that does not belong to you and don't do it again.!!!

[Heidi]

I would not term over this for several reasons. This little girl needs help. Mom is willing to work with you and her. If you both can put your heads together and help her then that will be her lifesaver. To just give her the boot and make her more stressed out might make her problem worse. You need to just implement very strict security measures. Such as absolutely no bag will be allowed in your home. I would put her coat and bag somewhere that she doesn't have access to it. That takes care of the problem of stashing toys. I never let the dck's play with my kids toys anyway. Let her only play with the designated dc toys. The only other place she could have a toy hidden is on her person (pockets). I would have mom give her a quick pat when she picks up. It's not hard to see if a child has something in her pocket. The mom doesn't really even need to let the girl know what she is doing. If she picks her up or gives her a hug she could tell if she's hiding something.

I agree, although I would ask that mom be discreet about it. I think it could be dangerous to single dcg out, because that may actually make the situation worse. If she feels labeled, she may continue to act the part, KWIM?

I think you should talk to your children again. Of course, it's hard on them, and of course, it's unnacceptable. You are doing everything you can to stop the behavior, and will term if it happens again.

Now is the part though where they need to understand that sometimes, people need a second chance, and sometimes people do things they shouldn't because they are having a hard time with something. That doesn't make it ok, but a little empathy and some firm limits are in order. What a great life lesson!

You could also remind them that while their THINGS are important, this is a person we're talking about, and people always trump possessions.