Unvaccinated Child - wwyd?

[MaritimeMummy]

Actually if you're in Nova Scotia like your location says you are completely wrong. There is no requirement for any vaccination to start school in NS. They recommend a full series but you do not need a medical, religious or any other type of exemption because there are no written rules. I have two children in the public school system in NS and neither are vaccinated. I just refused 13 shots or something like that for my 12 year old that were done in school. I simply had to decline on the permission form. When both of my children started school I wrote, "we do not vaccinate" in the section where you list your vaccinations.

Then I am going to assume the sensible thing and say that it sounds like it is different for different school boards and districts.

[Meyou]

Then I am going to assume the sensible thing and say that it sounds like it is different for different school boards and districts.

My info is from Nova Scotia Public Health but perhaps they were referring to HRM only when I spoke with them and didn't say so.

[Childminder]

This link was just posted to my facebook page and some of you might be interested in reading it. Brand new information about Whooping Cough vaccine.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/07/23/anti-vaccine-movement-causes-the-worst-whooping-cough-epidemic-in-70-years/

[Blackcat31]

This link was just posted to my facebook page and some of you might be interested in reading it. Brand new information about Whooping Cough vaccine.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensa...c-in-70-years/

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the info in the article you posted ......just making my point that for EVERY article in support of vaccinations there is one easily found with evidence to support the polar opposite:

Former post-doctoral researcher of the Center for Infectious Disease Dynamics, Grainne Long found that vaccination led to a 40-fold enhancement of B. parapertussis colonization in the lungs. His data suggested that the vaccine may be contributing to the observed rise in whooping cough incidence over the last decade by promoting B. parapertussis infection.

An acellular whooping cough vaccine actually enhances the colonization of Bordetella parapertussis ; pointing towards a rise in B. parapertussis incidence resulting from acellular vaccination, which may have contributed to the observed increase in whooping cough over the last decade.http://sanevax.org/vaccines-causing-superbugs/

[Meyou]

changed my mind.

[Country Kids]

changed my mind.

Are you for vacinations now or not?

[SilverSabre25]

The way I see it is this. SOME vaccines are all right--they've been around for awhile, they're proven, and they have definite benefits. MMR, I can see (although NOT before age 3, personally, unless they re-release the individual ones). DTAP, I can see (though personally must be careful with my own children due to a reaction I had to TDAP).

Some have a particular reputation for being nasty--Gardasil for example. Too new, too unproven, and kind of too useless. Another is the Hep B vax at birth...because newborns share SO many dirty needles . One...pneumoccal? (I know I slaughtered that spelling) or Prevnar? has a nasty rep. The Rotovirus vax has a nasty rep too and an old ped of ours who was VERY pro-vax actually refused to administer the rotovirus one to her patients <---that speaks LOADS to me.

I will not vax before age 1--little immune systems need time to strength before having to deal with the direct injection of chemicals. I will not give MMR before 3. And we don't do flu shots, ever.

But I also will not buy into fear and hype on either end of the scale. My kids are healthy; they rarely get sick even with the things that my (fully vaxed ) dcks bring in and when they do get sick it's usually over pretty quick. I will NOT buy into fear. Both sides of the vaccine debate engage in fear-mongering hype tactics and I hate them both.

[Willow]

Great article!

I agree, Blackcat. As a former vaccinating parent that now chooses to not vaccinate at all it IS easy to find research to support either argument. You have to be very careful what you're reading and where you're reading it. You're much better off looking for real studies and scientific sources.

That's why I'm interested in Willow's links. I can never have too much info. Who knows? I might change my mind again.

Not looking to change anyone's mind, just putting out there how I've come to the conclusions I have

I do agree that anyone can find information in support of their argument, and even if it's credible information it could be considered completely obsolete or inconsequential to someone else.

Here's the very basics to me:

How the immune system is formed:

http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/patientcare/healthcare_services/infectious_diseases/immunesystem/pages/index.aspx

How vaccines work in laymen's terms:

http://www.biologyreference.com/Ta-Va/Vaccines.html

This one's tough to get through but if you speak microbiology at all:

http://cvi.asm.org/content/17/7/1055.full

The conclusion there is:

"This review has shown that after the administration of nearly all vaccines, with the exceptions of BCG and zoster, prevention of infection correlates with the induction of specific antibodies. However, the situation is far from simple: antibodies must be present at the site of replication on the mucosae or in specific organs and must have sufficient breadth to affect heterologous serotypes, if they exist. Moreover, CD4+ responses, key to B-cell help and cytokine production, are sometimes better correlates of protection than antibody titers. Although I have sought to identify single correlates, for many of the vaccines considered above, multiple immune responses interact to protect. B-cell memory is crucial to prolonged protection after vaccination and is dependent on the magnitude of the innate immune response that enhances adaptive cellular responses (21). Nevertheless, the generalization holds that antibodies prevent infection whereas cellular responses control infection once replication has been established."

If you're only interested in the conclusion the bolded in particular to me translates to.....

Unvaccinated kiddo - goes to the grocery store and is exposed to a bitty cold virus. Kid gets sick. Kid's immune system fights off virus eventually.....on the flip side of that kid goes to the grocery store and picks up rotovirus. Kid gets sick. Kid's immune system fights off virus eventually. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat....etc. The body has no road map to fight off either and the B-cells have never been challenged in a way that enhances their ability to more effectively fight off even minor illnesses.

Vaccinated kiddo - goes to the grocery store and is exposed to a bitty cold virus. Kid doesn't get sick at all because his immune system is like a fortress. It's been introduced to and challenged by some pretty severe illnesses. His cellular response to infection is enhanced because his B-cell memory has been enhanced by the introduction of those much more ominous illnesses. The more ominous the illness, the more enhanced the B-cells tend to be....on the flip side of that kid goes to the grocery store and picks up rotovirus. Kid again doesn't get sick at all because his T-cell memory already has the roadmap to fight it off incredibly efficiently. He'll never contract it again no matter how much he's exposed to it.


For information on what memory cells are, how they impact our health and vaccination's affect on them. This offers a great explanation:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-memory-cell.htm

I went nuts over this stuff before my kids were born and subsequently in review of if I should buck having my dogs vaccinated per licensing requirements or just titered because one had some pretty severe vaccine reactions as a pup.

I love talking about it because to me it's fascinating stuff.

I do think it's relevant to the thread as the OP was having a tough time deciding how she felt about the issue and what to do. The more information she has the better she'll feel about whatever decision she makes.

[Willow]

Some have a particular reputation for being nasty--Gardasil for example. Too new, too unproven, and kind of too useless.

Agree

And we don't do flu shots, ever.

Agree

I will NOT buy into fear. Both sides of the vaccine debate engage in fear-mongering hype tactics and I hate them both.

Completely agree

[Meyou]

Are you for vacinations now or not?

Most definitely against. I just changed my mind about what I was going to post. But like I said I'm always interested in new or different information. You can never stop learning about this stuff as it's constantly changing.

I vaccinated for years without even thinking about it until my family had a very bad experience with one of the diseases we were suppose to be protected from. We were given different info by public health and the hospitals and the media reported a 3rd version of events about the outbreak. At that point I decided that I would never make a decision like vaccination again without knowing everything that I can from sources that are independent as I can find.

Thanks for the links, Willow. I'll go through them tomorrow. I took biology so I'm really looking forward to the last one.

[countrymom]

I did the very basic with my kids. Now there are so many extras that you can get, but I really don't think they need it. I don't do flu shots or chicken pox shots either. Whatever happened to building immunity, its so crazy now.

I will say that, those who have recieved the flu shot (the kids) are always sick, then those who haven't. I started noticing a couple of years ago.