New 3 Year Old...Need Advice Please

[small_steps]

So I took a new 3 year old a couple of weeks ago and his 2 year old sister. at The place he was in before (2 days he was there), the daycare provider told the mom that he was good for nothing...didn't listen, that he was hopeless...the mom left in tears and needed someone asap. The daycare they were at before that closed down and he was there for over 2 years.
I was very leery about taking him, but decided to because I could really use the extra income and his mom works for a friend of mine and they are good people.
My main issue with him is throwing toys, and pushing/hitting the other kids. He will sit in time out when I put him there but it doesn't seem to help him learn to act better.

This is their 3rd week here and I'd really like to make this work, especially since I'm losing two other children because of the dad's job loss. I really need their income but can't spend all day correcting him.
What should I do? Have you had to deal with this? He is very bad for his mom (hits her and kicks and yells)....he doesn't do anything like that to me. He just doesn't listen well.
Should I make an area just for him and separate him every time he throws or hits? I definately want to nip it in the bud before he wears me out and I want to terminate. I'm not at that point yet and don't want it to get that far.
Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Lilbutterflie]

I have had a boy like this before; and I don't think I would tolerate another one. It isn't worth the stress that I was under when he was here. I have a zero tolerance policy in regards to violence.

If you are going to try to make it work, I think your idea of a separate area just for him after he gets violent is a good idea. Keep him in there as long as you need to; as long as he continues to hit and throw things. If it were me, I would also have a discussion with his mom; letting her know if his behavior doesn't improve with you that you will have to say goodbye. And let her know that she needs to attempt to curb his violent behavior, too. Hitting, kicking and yelling at his mom should NEVER be tolerated. She needs to work on that at home if it's going to work.

My opinion on some kids with violent behavior is that their needs are not being met in one way or another. That means they either need to find an activity to expel their energy (like running, jumping, outdoor activites, etc...); or they need more attention from adults, or it's possible they do it out of frustration and not being able to speak the words to let the adults know what they want/need. Try giving him lots of exercise & attention. If he gets mad or frustrated, tell him to use his words; and give him the words he would need in that situation.

[daycare]

Time out will not teach him to correct his behavior, it will allow him time to calm down.

It will take you to teach him how to behave. If he is throwing things, is there something he can throw. Show him what he CAN do. It sounds like this kid is always told what he CANT do.

I bought this cool target that has foam stick on balls, we do it every morning. The kids love it.


This child sounds like he needs someone to show him the ropes. When he pushes, you tell him nice hands, that makes your friend sad. If he does it again, he has to play alone for the rest of the play time. It will take YOU to break his bad habits that he has been allowed to form and continue with.

I have kids that are bitters and monsters at home, but would never dream of it here.....

[Cat Herder]

Know my post is skewed by my own views, experiences and opinions.

IF I wanted to keep him (money, self-esteem rush of "fixing" him, needing a project to keep me motivated and vital, etc.) I would have to accept that I am keeping him for me....not for him, his Mom or the other kids. There is nothing wrong with it, and it can make this job emotionally rewarding at times.

Knowing his issues, I'd also know he is NOT safe to be around other kids right now.

I'd keep him in his own, well stocked, area whenever I was not right beside him. I'd allow him to earn his way back to group over time, a little each day. Each time he threw something, he'd lose it. A few days with his friends linoleum and imagination will do him some good, IMHO.

I'd work very hard on teaching empathy, respect, friendship, manners and following directions. His educational goal, at my house, would be to become a functioning member of our group. I would work to build him into a leader with high hopes for the MAN he should become.

I would also know when to call it quits for the benefit of the group. Only because I did not recognize it early enough in my past and paid the price....

[daycare]

Know my post is skewed by my own views, experiences and opinions.

IF I wanted to keep him (money, self-esteem rush of "fixing" him, needing a project to keep me motivated and vital, etc.) I would have to accept that I am keeping him for me....not for him, his Mom or the other kids. There is nothing wrong with it, and it can make this job emotionally rewarding at times.

Knowing his issues, I'd also know he is NOT safe to be around other kids right now.

I'd keep him in his own, well stocked, area whenever I was not right beside him. I'd allow him to earn his way back to group over time, a little each day. Each time he threw something, he'd lose it. A few days with his friends linoleum and imagination will do him some good, IMHO.

I'd work very hard on teaching empathy, respect, friendship, manners and following directions. His educational goal, at my house, would be to become a functioning member of our group. I would work to build him into a leader with high hopes for the MAN he should become.

I would also know when to call it quits for the benefit of the group. Only because I did not recognize it early enough in my past and paid the price....

I wish I could put my thoughts into words like you do...very well said..Love this

[Cat Herder]

I wish I could put my thoughts into words like you do...very well said..Love this

You could....if any of us could understand your native language. lovethis

To be bilingual would be so awesome!! I think you do AMAZING!!!

[small_steps]

Time out will not teach him to correct his behavior, it will allow him time to calm down.

It will take you to teach him how to behave. If he is throwing things, is there something he can throw. Show him what he CAN do. It sounds like this kid is always told what he CANT do.

I bought this cool target that has foam stick on balls, we do it every morning. The kids love it.


This child sounds like he needs someone to show him the ropes. When he pushes, you tell him nice hands, that makes your friend sad. If he does it again, he has to play alone for the rest of the play time. It will take YOU to break his bad habits that he has been allowed to form and continue with.

I have kids that are bitters and monsters at home, but would never dream of it here.....

Good idea on the target and balls...may have to find something like that. I usually do not allow them to throw ANYTHING inside the house. I will have to make him a separate area this weekend. I don't want to give up on him because for one thing I really need the income he and his sister bring in, but also, because I do likethe mom and want to help him. He's not THAT violent. When he pushes and hits its not really hard hitting and he isn't very aggressive YET. I just don't want it to progress. And I really need it to get better.
I do not want to be one of those providers that puts up with it for months and it doesn't get any better. He is very wired all the time and gets the other kids really rowdy. Now this is kind of a bad time of year because it's been very wet here the last few weeks and we've only been able to go outside a handful of times since he's been here. Most of the time we are inside, so maybe once we are able to get outside more that will help. I usually take the kids out twice a day to let them run off some of that energy when its nice outside.

What I do appreciate about him is that he always takes good naps. Also, I've been wondering if he doesn't feel accepted by the other children. I try to convince them to play together and will even sometimes pair them off for group activities but don't seem to want to play with him. I don't know if its because he is new or because they just don't like him from his pushing and hitting and throwing things.
So hard to know what exactly is going on. He talks very well...and is very smart. But he doesn't really know why he is doing what hes doing. He says...because when his mom asks him why he is throwing.

A friend of mine got 2 kids from the other provider that he was with for two years and hers are bad about throwing and hitting too. I think the other provider just doesn't have structure. Most of my kids I've had for months or a couple years and its very easy to forget that its like starting over again. May stick to infants or toddlers like someone else on here said. I think they are a little easier to train.

[small_steps]

Know my post is skewed by my own views, experiences and opinions.

IF I wanted to keep him (money, self-esteem rush of "fixing" him, needing a project to keep me motivated and vital, etc.) I would have to accept that I am keeping him for me....not for him, his Mom or the other kids. There is nothing wrong with it, and it can make this job emotionally rewarding at times.

Knowing his issues, I'd also know he is NOT safe to be around other kids right now.

I'd keep him in his own, well stocked, area whenever I was not right beside him. I'd allow him to earn his way back to group over time, a little each day. Each time he threw something, he'd lose it. A few days with his friends linoleum and imagination will do him some good, IMHO.

I'd work very hard on teaching empathy, respect, friendship, manners and following directions. His educational goal, at my house, would be to become a functioning member of our group. I would work to build him into a leader with high hopes for the MAN he should become.

I would also know when to call it quits for the benefit of the group. Only because I did not recognize it early enough in my past and paid the price....

How much space would you think would be enough...and if mom questions it I should just be up front about it? As in "because of how he is treating my toys and his friends, I'm secluding him from other children and will allow him to gradually earn a space back into the group of kids? " Something like that (help with what to say also appreciated ) She knows he is having behavior problems. I mean, he kicks and hits her when she picks him up? I usually give a ****er or sticker at the end of the day for good behavior. the first day he didn't have a good day, mom said "he's going to be really mad when he doesn't get his treat."...uh? Oh well, having him act the way he did all day wasn't a picnic for me either. So I'm pretty sure he doesn't have many boundaries at home. Hopefully I can get him straightened out in a few weeks.

[Cat Herder]

For little guys behaving badly, my separate playrooms are 36sq feet each. With his being 3 years old and with KNOWN issues, I'd probably put two together for a while for a larger space (72sq feet) since he will be spending a little bit more time in there to begin with. (these are all within one great room and are temporary half-walls)

This would have been part of the deal at enrollment, I RARELY enroll anyone past 4 months old. I'd have turned her down if the plan would not have worked for her. Only because I KNOW it to have been a successful formula for me on MANY occasions. It is my standard discipline plan. "Go to your room until you can safely be a part of the group". Frankly, some times they don't want to be a part of the group and ask to go to their room. I am OK with that as well, they all have that option, too.

I'd tell Mom that I have to keep him separated during times I am not doing structured group play for the protection of the other kids... Meal Prep, Diaper Change Times, Free Play Times, etc... He would still be part of the group during all activities unless he began disrupting them...then back to his area. This is a temporary situation.

Start EVERY group time, Every Day with him as part of the group. That is the key...each day he should want to be a part of the group more and more. It is usually very self-limiting.

Also, be careful with the ****ers/stickers...check your regs. They are not allowed here, deemed "abusive", "humiliating" or "with holding food". Everyone has to get one, or nobody does is the rule here....

[countrymom]

you need to train him not do those things. You have to remember he was somewhere for 2 yrs that allowed him to do naughty thing, you now need to fix the problem the other provider caused. I'm a person who follows the kids around when they misbehave. I try to interveen before the situation becomes exspolsive. You need to see why is he throwing toys, why is he hitting the kids and go from there.

[daycare]

Good idea on the target and balls...may have to find something like that. I usually do not allow them to throw ANYTHING inside the house. I will have to make him a separate area this weekend. I don't want to give up on him because for one thing I really need the income he and his sister bring in, but also, because I do likethe mom and want to help him. He's not THAT violent. When he pushes and hits its not really hard hitting and he isn't very aggressive YET. I just don't want it to progress. And I really need it to get better.
I do not want to be one of those providers that puts up with it for months and it doesn't get any better. He is very wired all the time and gets the other kids really rowdy. Now this is kind of a bad time of year because it's been very wet here the last few weeks and we've only been able to go outside a handful of times since he's been here. Most of the time we are inside, so maybe once we are able to get outside more that will help. I usually take the kids out twice a day to let them run off some of that energy when its nice outside.

What I do appreciate about him is that he always takes good naps. Also, I've been wondering if he doesn't feel accepted by the other children. I try to convince them to play together and will even sometimes pair them off for group activities but don't seem to want to play with him. I don't know if its because he is new or because they just don't like him from his pushing and hitting and throwing things.
So hard to know what exactly is going on. He talks very well...and is very smart. But he doesn't really know why he is doing what hes doing. He says...because when his mom asks him why he is throwing.

A friend of mine got 2 kids from the other provider that he was with for two years and hers are bad about throwing and hitting too. I think the other provider just doesn't have structure. Most of my kids I've had for months or a couple years and its very easy to forget that its like starting over again. May stick to infants or toddlers like someone else on here said. I think they are a little easier to train.

BOXES all sizes..... do you have any? If not get some...
Sounds like a kid I used to have that just needed to keep busy all the time.

I would get big boxes. let him fill them up with whatever he wants and then have him carry, push or pull them to the other side of the room.

I could give you a list of things that you could let this guy do that would keep him so busy he would not have time to misbehave....

what about dancing? Do you guys dance in the morning at all??

[daycare]

You could....if any of us could understand your native language. lovethis

To be bilingual would be so awesome!! I think you do AMAZING!!!

well thank you...My mom says I speak just as bad Arabic as I do English so I don't qualify as multilingual.....lool

[small_steps]

For little guys behaving badly, my separate playrooms are 36sq feet each. With his being 3 years old and with KNOWN issues, I'd probably put two together for a while for a larger space (72sq feet) since he will be spending a little bit more time in there to begin with. (these are all within one great room and are temporary half-walls)

This would have been part of the deal at enrollment, I RARELY enroll anyone past 4 months old. I'd have turned her down if the plan would not have worked for her. Only because I KNOW it to have been a successful formula for me on MANY occasions. It is my standard discipline plan. "Go to your room until you can safely be a part of the group". Frankly, some times they don't want to be a part of the group and ask to go to their room. I am OK with that as well, they all have that option, too.

I'd tell Mom that I have to keep him separated during times I am not doing structured group play for the protection of the other kids... Meal Prep, Diaper Change Times, Free Play Times, etc... He would still be part of the group during all activities unless he began disrupting them...then back to his area. This is a temporary situation.

Start EVERY group time, Every Day with him as part of the group. That is the key...each day he should want to be a part of the group more and more. It is usually very self-limiting.

Also, be careful with the ****ers/stickers...check your regs. They are not allowed here, deemed "abusive", "humiliating" or "with holding food". Everyone has to get one, or nobody does is the rule here....

Our regs do state not to use food as a reward or punishment and the ****ers on good days is considered rewarding good behavior, but I've continued to do that anyway as they get it as the walk out the door when mom and dad are here. It would probably get me written up but it usually works for me so Ive continued to use that. Stickers...I don't think our regs state anything on that.
I'm going to make him an area this weekend and try this starting monday. He is very good during circle time and anytime we do an activity. It's usually during free play or outside time that I have the most trouble from him.

[small_steps]

you need to train him not do those things. You have to remember he was somewhere for 2 yrs that allowed him to do naughty thing, you now need to fix the problem the other provider caused. I'm a person who follows the kids around when they misbehave. I try to interveen before the situation becomes exspolsive. You need to see why is he throwing toys, why is he hitting the kids and go from there.

I just can't follow him around all day as I am licensed in my state and have 10 other kids here everyday right now. Their ages all vary so that makes it hard too. If I had around 6 kids...I could spend a little more time focusing strictly on him that might be different but that's hard to do with so many children of various ages. I do agree that he will need to be re-trained. And I don't know how that provider allowed all of those kiddos to act like that. She had 6 kids and I know at least 4 of them acted like that because my friend has 3 or 4 of the other ones. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about that. think I'm going to try the separation thing Catherder suggested. He does very well by himself usually. He is one of the first ones here in the morning and plays pretty good when its just him and his sister.

[daycare]

Our regs do state not to use food as a reward or punishment and the ****ers on good days is considered rewarding good behavior, but I've continued to do that anyway as they get it as the walk out the door when mom and dad are here. It would probably get me written up but it usually works for me so Ive continued to use that. Stickers...I don't think our regs state anything on that.
I'm going to make him an area this weekend and try this starting monday. He is very good during circle time and anytime we do an activity. It's usually during free play or outside time that I have the most trouble from him.

It's usually during free play or outside time that I have the most trouble from him.

that was the boy I had to the "T"

I can give you some ideas if you would like