A Very Bad Day

[QualiTcare]

No offense taken really. I can take some creative criticism. I have to admit that I have a soft spot for kids and try to work with families and children if behavior is an issue but as for this kid he was only with me for a month before he cut his finger. After this situation I IMMEDIATELY terminated. I had tried to work with the parents (he even hung on the ledge a few times when parents were here and they didn't even seem concerned!). They asked for payment of his bills in retaliation for being let go. I don't know what the process is like either really I just called my agent and let her know what happened. After that I don't know what happened or of they even actually went through with trying to get payment. I agree since then, that if a child doesn't at least show improvement then they shouldn't be in care. You live and learn right?

maybe she genuinely thought it was serious since you called her? i don't know. i could be wrong. i had 2 kids in daycare from the time they were 6 weeks old, and when the daycare called me - i assumed it was serious.

they called me one time because my son broke out into a rash that they thought was just AWFUL and sudden, etc. so i took him to the doctor (not at their expense, of course) and it turned out it was a side effect of asthma. after the 3rd or 4th call over a rash - i finally told my daycare director that i couldn't keep leaving work over a RASH that wasn't contagious and was a side effect of asthma. that was my second child and i'd been through it enough to know what was serious and what wasn't. but with my first child, i assumed if the daycare called me at work - it must be serious. they even called me a time or two when my child ran out of diapers (which YES was MY fault) and i left work to take diapers. then, i said, "hey, my best friend's baby _____ wears the same size diapers. use hers and i'll replace them when i pick her up." they stopped calling about rashes and diapers after that, but i basically made it clear i wasn't leaving work anymore unless there was blood loss that was fatal or something.

when i worked at a daycare, i wouldn't call a parent unless I thought it was REALLY serious (worth going to the doctor). otherwise, i'd write up a report and tell them what happened when they picked their kid up. just to be fair, i think the phone calls freak parents out a little.

[Chickenhauler]

This mom has insurance through the county, but actually has medical assistance/welfare medical for her kids secondary. Basically according to her, her insurance may refuse to pay, since the accident happened at daycare. We'll see. I don't think the Dr even took her seriously. I guess the clinic will probably bill it to ins, so unless they send her one of those cool letters asking if someone else was responsible to pay the accident- auto, work comp, or other , (if the diagnosis code is accident based they are automaticlly generated- I spent years as ins manager for a chiro clinic) I may not get stuck. I actually told her that if I do, I'll pay it and not renew my license next year- because I don't want to do daycare without insurance in case of something big, but I wont pay a rate increase over something this stupid. People assume daycare providers do it because we can't do anything else. I graduated college w/ a 4.0, worked for years as insurance/office manager, then 2 years as bookeeper for a law firm before I quit to stay home. Maybe its time to get my degree in social work- the college said I'd have my masters in 15 months w/ 2 nights a week classes. Considering how dumb she is it might be better for the community.

I'd stand firmer than a brick wall and point out it was her kid, you REFUSE to pay one single dime for her child's knee-jerk medical care.

The problem with having that in your contract is that it only is a contractual agreement with the parents who are rarely the ones who pay for medical. In order for that to work you would have to get their insurer or the hopsital/medical service to agree that you are not liable. They wouldn't agree to that. They can sue you for anything they don't want to pay. They are the ones with the resources to make you pay.

First, it won't be the insurance company that sues you, it will be the hospital. They would have to prove in a court of law, under trail, that you were liable for the injury (negligent).

Then all you would have to do is present the documents from the check in at the ER (these would have to be turned over during discovery) where the parent signed the admitting forms where they accept all financial responsibility for the expenses incurred (read your admitting form next time you visit the hospital).

This is the parent of the child's financial obligation, not yours.

The insurance co, hospital, and the Grand Inquisitor can all think that you are responsible, but until you get in front of a judge and jury that says otherwise, it's the parents bill to pay.

[nannyde]

I'd stand firmer than a brick wall and point out it was her kid, you REFUSE to pay one single dime for her child's knee-jerk medical care.



First, it won't be the insurance company that sues you, it will be the hospital. They would have to prove in a court of law, under trail, that you were liable for the injury (negligent).

Then all you would have to do is present the documents from the check in at the ER (these would have to be turned over during discovery) where the parent signed the admitting forms where they accept all financial responsibility for the expenses incurred (read your admitting form next time you visit the hospital).

This is the parent of the child's financial obligation, not yours.

The insurance co, hospital, and the Grand Inquisitor can all think that you are responsible, but until you get in front of a judge and jury that says otherwise, it's the parents bill to pay.

Why do you think it would be the hospital? Are you saying her two insurances wouldn't cover the bill?

[Former Teacher]

when i worked at a daycare, i wouldn't call a parent unless I thought it was REALLY serious (worth going to the doctor). otherwise, i'd write up a report and tell them what happened when they picked their kid up. just to be fair, i think the phone calls freak parents out a little.

I agree with you to a point. I always called a parent to give them heads up just to protect ME. As for a situation as for diapers, no I wouldn't expect a parent to leave work. I would simply tell them that they must replace the number used plus bring for their own child.

Take for example a fever. State law requires a child must not be in care with 100.4 temp. I ALWAYS called when I took a temp and even if it wasn't at the 100.4 I would give the heads up and say..hey So and So is miserable etc..it's not at a 100.4 but once it reaches there you must pick So and So up.

As for the rashes I agree with the center about calling to pick up your child. I am not a doctor and even though it's not contagious etc..I was Assistant Director. I needed to protect the children, staff, as well as myself.

My point being that yes I called the parents. Yes I am sure I "freaked them out" as you say. Even though the first thing I did was always..hi So and So this is Ms. R from ---, everything is ok..just wanted to give you a heads up about something. Then I would hear a sigh of relief ::

On the flip side it also depended on the parent too. If a parent worked in retail and couldn't get to the phone then I would wait until they HAD to do something ie pick up.

I guess I just had that kind of relationship with the parents

[QualiTcare]

I agree with you to a point. I always called a parent to give them heads up just to protect ME. As for a situation as for diapers, no I wouldn't expect a parent to leave work. I would simply tell them that they must replace the number used plus bring for their own child.

Take for example a fever. State law requires a child must not be in care with 100.4 temp. I ALWAYS called when I took a temp and even if it wasn't at the 100.4 I would give the heads up and say..hey So and So is miserable etc..it's not at a 100.4 but once it reaches there you must pick So and So up.

As for the rashes I agree with the center about calling to pick up your child. I am not a doctor and even though it's not contagious etc..I was Assistant Director. I needed to protect the children, staff, as well as myself.

My point being that yes I called the parents. Yes I am sure I "freaked them out" as you say. Even though the first thing I did was always..hi So and So this is Ms. R from ---, everything is ok..just wanted to give you a heads up about something. Then I would hear a sigh of relief ::

On the flip side it also depended on the parent too. If a parent worked in retail and couldn't get to the phone then I would wait until they HAD to do something ie pick up.

I guess I just had that kind of relationship with the parents

i understand what you're saying...every situation is different depending on the child and the parent.

as far as the rashes i mentioned, i did pick up my child the first two times - the second time is when i took him to a doctor. it wasn't like a diaper rash - it was more like little heat bumps all over his body (which it wasn't heat bumps, but that's what it looked like). the doctor said it wasn't painful, contagious - nothing. just a side effect of asthma. to me it was like being red from a sunburn - no reason to go home. of course, this was a chain daycare and they loved sending kids home so they could send staff home and save on labor. either way, they stopped making me pick him up over the breakouts and would only call when it was something really serious. i've seen them call parents when a child didn't have a change of clothes (even though there were tons of spare clothes in storage). so, it does depend on the history of the provider and the parent i think. if the provider calls all the time, it's hard to get nervous. if they never, ever call - that could be scary.

[MarinaVanessa]

maybe she genuinely thought it was serious since you called her? i don't know. i could be wrong. i had 2 kids in daycare from the time they were 6 weeks old, and when the daycare called me - i assumed it was serious.

Oh it was serious. It needed stitches and was bleeding pretty bad. He HAD to go to the doctors to get stitched up which is why I called. In either case however, it is not my responsibility to pay his medical bill just as I would not expect someone else to pay for my child's medical bill if she was at another daycare.

[booroo]

Why do you think it would be the hospital? Are you saying her two insurances wouldn't cover the bill?

If the insurance companies don't pay the bill, then you as the parent are responsible for the care recieved... Therefore the hospital will go after the person responsible for the bill, which you sign every time you visit the doctor or ER..stating that you the parent is responsibke for bill.. The hospital now has the right to collect the debt from the party responsible..

Side note:: when my daughter fell off the teter toters at school and hit a pile if BIG rocks the school payed for her stiches, cat scan and hospital stay for the sever bleeding on her head!! The also paid for her stiches o. Her leg that she got while cutter leg on the playhouse jungle gym thing it was a piece if metal that came apart; the school didnt take proper care of the playground equipment. Schools due have insurance to pay for such accidents!!

[Chickenhauler]

If the insurance companies don't pay the bill, then you as the parent are responsible for the care recieved... Therefore the hospital will go after the person responsible for the bill, which you sign every time you visit the doctor or ER..stating that you the parent is responsibke for bill.. The hospital now has the right to collect the debt from the party responsible..

Side note:: when my daughter fell off the teter toters at school and hit a pile if BIG rocks the school payed for her stiches, cat scan and hospital stay for the sever bleeding on her head!! The also paid for her stiches o. Her leg that she got while cutter leg on the playhouse jungle gym thing it was a piece if metal that came apart; the school didnt take proper care of the playground equipment. Schools due have insurance to pay for such accidents!!

You still paid for it.

You did, I did, and everyone else paid for it.

[Chickenhauler]

My son got hit playing dodge ball in gym his senior year. A kid ran into his mouth and practically knocked 2 of his teeth out, my dental bill was over $400 for that, and I turned it into our school, and they sent it back and said they were not reponsible for the bill, as they are exempt from paying for injuries on their property due to the state laws. Bullcrap.....they never should of had the kids playing such aggressive sports for gym class, they get downright dirty in that game. Of course our insurance didn't cover it either, and we had to pay it out of our pocket.

I take it your kid never played football, hockey, soccer or raced motocross?


Yeah, dodgeball is pretty tame.

[Chickenhauler]

Schools have students to alot of things that can cause injury...some schools have (gasp) STAIRS! Many still have paper (paper cuts) and some even have shop classes (digit removal).

Life is full of things that can hurt a person. Why is it that it's always somebody else's fault, and somebody else should pay? Why is it never "my kids a clutz" (cuz I know mine is, and openly admit it to anyone who asks).

It's just one of my pet peeves in life, right alongside lawsuits.

[booroo]

You still paid for it.

You did, I did, and everyone else paid for it.

yes I know I paid for it!! I told the school not worry about it that I would take care of it!! They called the hospital before I arrived both times and gave all their information, I did give the admitting lady my insurance card, but mine was never billed.

[Chickenhauler]

yes I know I paid for it!! I told the school not worry about it that I would take care of it!! They called the hospital before I arrived both times and gave all their information, I did give the admitting lady my insurance card, but mine was never billed.

Sounds like they were trying to prevent a lawsuit, and had either been sued before, or their lawyers told them they were less likely to get sued if they went about it this way.

Damn the lawyers!

[booroo]

Sounds like they were trying to prevent a lawsuit, and had either been sued before, or their lawyers told them they were less likely to get sued if they went about it this way.

Damn the lawyers!

I'm sure that was it!! The school was told by the state to take out that equipment and clean up the boulder in the play ground that summer before her accidents that fall!!

[QualiTcare]

Oh it was serious. It needed stitches and was bleeding pretty bad. He HAD to go to the doctors to get stitched up which is why I called. In either case however, it is not my responsibility to pay his medical bill just as I would not expect someone else to pay for my child's medical bill if she was at another daycare.

oh, okay, i guess i missed something. the daycare my kids went to when they were younger was responsible for paying the doctor's bill if something happened to them while in their care. nothing ever did happen, but there were children who had accidents that required medical attention - and they were absolutely responsible for the bill by their own admission/contract.

i guess it all depends on what your contract says, and if it doesn't say - it's a lesson learned.

[Carole's Daycare]

I spent years as the insurance manager for a clinic, and really, its quite simple. Insurance companies, including your personal medical insurance, medical assistance, etc- want to make sure someone else isn't responsible for the bill before they pay it. Most injury type Diagnosis codes- the alpha numeric combination used to designate the type of illness or injury- automatically generate questions from the insurance company. Maybe some of you have received a letter from your insurance company before after an ER or Dr visit where you were treated for a fall, back or ankle injury, cut etc. That letter is double checking that the injury wasn't work or auto accident related, and also asked where and how it occurred so based on THAT COMPANYS POLICIES they can decide if they want to pay it, or if the injured party should seek payment through another insurance or liable party. It really depends on how the accident is coded and submitted whether the insurance questions it, and how the parent fills out that form whether the insurance initially will refuse to pay- at which time the injured party will appeal it or seek restitution elsewhere- through the daycare insurance or owner, for example. Then it is up to us to fight it - spending money, or pay it, spending money. To save big insurance companies money. The situation in my case still is unresolved in some ways. Mom is apologetic and seems to realize and feel bad she caused problems. It remains to be seen if the county will show up for surprise visits trying to determine if safety or supervision issues were a factor ( I dont know if they automatically pop in after a report of injury treated by a physician is filed, or if they read the report and excercise discretionary judgement here etc) I also do not know yet what her insurance is going to do, and it will be a couple weeks probably before I do.