A Very Bad Day

[nannyde]

They just showed up. Yeterday she said Dr thought he was going to be all bruised and have raccooon eyes today. LOL you cant even see anything. Yay. She came in to the door & said she was late. The kids ran to me for hugs and she said have a nice day & ran. Wow.

Take pictures of him today. Email them to yourself and send one to yourself in the mail. Prove what he looked like after less than 24 hours.

DOCUMENT his outcome. It will serve you well if you get the bill. You have a right to refuse to pay this based on the child receiving emergency medical services for an injury that required simple basic first aid.

[MarinaVanessa]

Ugh, how dumb is that?! Still I don't see how you should even offer to pay for her ER trip. It was nothing, you told her it was nothing and she overreacted. I have in my policies the following

"Medical Emergencies: (Medical Emergency policy and then) .... Parents are responsible for costs involved in medical treatment including any transportation required."

If my child gets hurt at school, the school doesn't pay her medical bills, I do. Why should she be any different? :confused:

[momma2girls]

I also added in my contract, that I am not responsible for any injuries to any child here in daycare. I have never had anything happen ever- Thank GOD!!! But it's in there, just in case!!

[nannyde]

Ugh, how dumb is that?! Still I don't see how you should even offer to pay for her ER trip. It was nothing, you told her it was nothing and she overreacted. I have in my policies the following

"Medical Emergencies: (Medical Emergency policy and then) .... Parents are responsible for costs involved in medical treatment including any transportation required."

If my child gets hurt at school, the school doesn't pay her medical bills, I do. Why should she be any different? :confused:

Oh there's a big difference. School is a public entity where no one single person is responsible for the minute to minute supervision of your one child. There's no money being exchanged between you and the school. If the school is responsible then the "public tax payers" are responsible.

The school has enormous resources to fight any insurance claims. The insurance companies would not even bother with something of this $$$ It would cost them more to fight a well armed attorney rich school district then the cost of the bill.

At school the children are in public. The school must have policies and procedures to protect the group but they are not responsible for the minute to minute visual direct supervision of every kid in the building. It's understood that at school there is not a single adult responsible.

[nannyde]

I also added in my contract, that I am not responsible for any injuries to any child here in daycare. I have never had anything happen ever- Thank GOD!!! But it's in there, just in case!!

The problem with having that in your contract is that it only is a contractual agreement with the parents who are rarely the ones who pay for medical. In order for that to work you would have to get their insurer or the hopsital/medical service to agree that you are not liable. They wouldn't agree to that. They can sue you for anything they don't want to pay. They are the ones with the resources to make you pay.

It also doesn't decrease your liability with your licensor. Parents can't agree that you are not responsible when someone else decides if you indeed were responsible.

[momma2girls]

The problem with having that in your contract is that it only is a contractual agreement with the parents who are rarely the ones who pay for medical. In order for that to work you would have to get their insurer or the hopsital/medical service to agree that you are not liable. They wouldn't agree to that. They can sue you for anything they don't want to pay. They are the ones with the resources to make you pay.

It also doesn't decrease your liability with your licensor. Parents can't agree that you are not responsible when someone else decides if you indeed were responsible.

I agree with this!!

[nannyde]

I agree with this!!

And for the parents who do have to pay: They won't access medical care for something that isn't an emergency if there is ANY chance they will get stuck with the bill. They won't be going to the ER for a bloddy nose. The ones to worry about are the ones who are fully insured (as this Mom is with two insurers). The further the parent is away from the bill the better chance you have of them racking up high bills.

This parent knows she won't pay. She has insurance and back up insurance. She felt perfectly comfortable accessing specialty care for something that required simple first aid because there is NO chance she will pay a penny.

[Carole's Daycare]

I agree. She had the freedom to overreact & go to eR & get time off of work because she has so much PTO, good ins, and welfare ins second so there's no way she'll have to pay for it. It took a bunch of hassle some of you may remember to get her on track with picking up on time or being responsible for late fees. This woman is currently single- she left the dad- a loser drinker on SSI that lives with his sister, when the now 3 yr old daughter was 9 months- thats when she first came to me. Within a couple months she told me she was pregnant again- apparently after a one night stand w/ the ex after she had moved out. She applied for daycare assistance through welfare to try to get it before baby2 would start daycare mid august 2008. She applied while on maternity leave- she took a couple extra weeks unpaid to lower her income and was wait listed- She was within 1000 of the maximum allowed family income then- so she could have been approved & paid maximum copay. When she went back to work & got a raise she was denied for too much money- she brings home 1300 every two weeks-after tax, insurance etc, but wanted to pay the max copay of 499 month with welfare picking up rest of daycare. She actually appealed to the state/protested that if there hadnt been a waiting list, she met the income guideline when she applied- and had she received it they could not have kicked her off with her raise. I couldn't believe it. Taxpayer dollars at work w/ this chick. She still didn't get it, so resents having to pay for both kids herself. I did take pictures & will email them to myself as you suggest. She probably does feel bad a little, because she's probably knows she didn't act appropriately, & is afraid if this nails me I will quit, & she'll be stuck finding a new place.

[nannyde]

I agree. She had the freedom to overreact & go to eR & get time off of work because she has so much PTO, good ins, and welfare ins second so there's no way she'll have to pay for it. It took a bunch of hassle some of you may remember to get her on track with picking up on time or being responsible for late fees. This woman is currently single- she left the dad- a loser drinker on SSI that lives with his sister, when the now 3 yr old daughter was 9 months- thats when she first came to me. Within a couple months she told me she was pregnant again- apparently after a one night stand w/ the ex after she had moved out. She applied for daycare assistance through welfare to try to get it before baby2 would start daycare mid august 2008. She applied while on maternity leave- she took a couple extra weeks unpaid to lower her income and was wait listed- She was within 1000 of the maximum allowed family income then- so she could have been approved & paid maximum copay. When she went back to work & got a raise she was denied for too much money- she brings home 1300 every two weeks-after tax, insurance etc, but wanted to pay the max copay of 499 month with welfare picking up rest of daycare. She actually appealed to the state/protested that if there hadnt been a waiting list, she met the income guideline when she applied- and had she received it they could not have kicked her off with her raise. I couldn't believe it. Taxpayer dollars at work w/ this chick. She still didn't get it, so resents having to pay for both kids herself. I did take pictures & will email them to myself as you suggest. She probably does feel bad a little, because she's probably knows she didn't act appropriately, & is afraid if this nails me I will quit, & she'll be stuck finding a new place.

Carole,
Take pic
Print
Send in a letter thru USPS to yourself
When you get the letter don't open it up. Put it in his file and leave it. You will have a stamp from the USPS time stamping the day they received it.

[nannyde]

Carole,
Take pic
Print
Send in a letter thru USPS to yourself
When you get the letter don't open it up. Put it in his file and leave it. You will have a stamp from the USPS time stamping the day they received it.

If you can get something for him to put up towards his face that is time stamped like a newspaper that would be good to include in the pic.

It's a pain but you will have absolute proof that within one day there was no sign of any injury.

[MarinaVanessa]

Oh there's a big difference. School is a public entity where no one single person is responsible for the minute to minute supervision of your one child. There's no money being exchanged between you and the school. If the school is responsible then the "public tax payers" are responsible.

What about private school? If kids get hurt in private school the parents still have to pay. I've had a little boy try to climb up on the couch and onto a ledge that had an exposed nail at the top (the ledge is about a foot from the ceiling) and I kept telling him not to go up there. Everyday it was the same thing (he was seven) and he did it over and over and over. Ever time he did it I would bring him down and try to keep him away from the furniture but he would run from me and jump on and hang on to the ledge. One day (the last time it happened) he was running from me and jumped up and grabbed on and sliced his finger. I called mom and she took him to the ER. He had to get a shot and stitches. She still paid for it. The dad tried getting me to pay but I said no and still gave him my insurance info. I called my agent and told her what happened and in the end they were held responsible and had to pay. If it was your fault due to something you did, negligence or failure to keep the premises safe then I would understand but this is different. And even though it was an exposed nail in my home I didn't pay because the child knew the rules, I did everything in my power to try to keep him away from the area, spoke to the parents about this issue and the ledge was up higher than 5 ft. The child just refused to listen. In the case of this post the child was just playing and fell and bonked himself. Not really any negligence on anyone's part.

[nannyde]

What about private school? If kids get hurt in private school the parents still have to pay. I've had a little boy try to climb up on the couch and onto a ledge that had an exposed nail at the top (the ledge is about a foot from the ceiling) and I kept telling him not to go up there. Everyday it was the same thing (he was seven) and he did it over and over and over. Ever time he did it I would bring him down and try to keep him away from the furniture but he would run from me and jump on and hang on to the ledge. One day (the last time it happened) he was running from me and jumped up and grabbed on and sliced his finger. I called mom and she took him to the ER. He had to get a shot and stitches. She still paid for it. The dad tried getting me to pay but I said no and still gave him my insurance info. I called my agent and told her what happened and in the end they were held responsible and had to pay. If it was your fault due to something you did, negligence or failure to keep the premises safe then I would understand but this is different. And even though it was an exposed nail in my home I didn't pay because the child knew the rules, I did everything in my power to try to keep him away from the area, spoke to the parents about this issue and the ledge was up higher than 5 ft. The child just refused to listen. In the case of this post the child was just playing and fell and bonked himself. Not really any negligence on anyone's part.

I'm not a specialist in insurance so I can't say for sure what caused them to cover this one. I'm sure there is a certain point where the cost of collecting is more costly than the bill. With you having insurance it may have been that their insurer did not want to invest in suing your insurer. I don't know.

In a situation you described... now don't take this the wrong way... you seem very sweet and a loving provider but you did take a risk knowing he had behavior you could not control. Not impulsive spur of the moment behavior but behavior that was predictably dangerous daily. You decided he COULD stay in your care even though he clearly needed much more supervision than you could do in your group. To me.. that is your liability.

We shouldn't care for children we can't keep safe.

but don't take this personally because I don't mean it that way at all... just something to think about

[Former Teacher]

Carole..I am glad everything worked out in the end

That being said, I agree with Nannyde and take those pictures. BTW..do you have a log that the mother signs and dates each day? That would help too should she take it further. In other words...why bring your child back to a place that you think is held responsible?

Keep us posted!

[sahm2three]

What a nightmare! Sorry! Glad things worked out though!

[MarinaVanessa]

In a situation you described... now don't take this the wrong way... you seem very sweet and a loving provider but you did take a risk knowing he had behavior you could not control. Not impulsive spur of the moment behavior but behavior that was predictably dangerous daily. You decided he COULD stay in your care even though he clearly needed much more supervision than you could do in your group. To me.. that is your liability.

No offense taken really. I can take some creative criticism. I have to admit that I have a soft spot for kids and try to work with families and children if behavior is an issue but as for this kid he was only with me for a month before he cut his finger. After this situation I IMMEDIATELY terminated. I had tried to work with the parents (he even hung on the ledge a few times when parents were here and they didn't even seem concerned!). They asked for payment of his bills in retaliation for being let go. I don't know what the process is like either really I just called my agent and let her know what happened. After that I don't know what happened or of they even actually went through with trying to get payment. I agree since then, that if a child doesn't at least show improvement then they shouldn't be in care. You live and learn right?