Mom Does't Like Toddler Zone

[emmajo]

It has always seemed to me that as soon as a baby can walk well and make some sort of verbal babbling response to an older child's "pretend you say ..." the younger becomes a playmate. A dumping, grabbing one, but a friend nonetheless, and the older ones seem pleased to include their new friend. Some of the time anyway. Then when they need to do "big kid" things, the littles go in high chair for a snack or water play, or bigger ones go to the kitchen table for their activities. My house is small, but I'm thinking of gating older kids into a hallway next to play area so they can play w/ smaller-pieced games there while littlest are kept from bothering them. I once worked in a center and I like the multi-age mixture so much more than having all the kids the same age. i think kids exposed to older ones on a daily basis learn everything so much more quickly!

[Sugar Magnolia]

I have a 15 mth old girl in my dc.
When she turned one I put her in a "toddler zone".
I did it to keep the older kids happy. So she couldn't
constantly grab their toys, dump the buckets of toys
and to keep her safe from the wild boys running and knocking
her over.
I felt that for the older kids sake it was best if she had
her own space.
I would put her in their for about 90 minutes in the morning
and about 45 min. in the afternoon. She was fine in there.

Well the dcm does not like her in there. She feels that
her dd being isolated is so sad.

I kept her out this morning to see how things would go
and it was a nightmare. The older kids were all frustrated
and she was a terror. Obviously she has been with the other
kids, but just not for so long, in my opinion it did not go well.

What would you all do? continue to use the toddler zone for her
or keep her out amongst the other kids all day? What to tell the mom?

How old are the other kids? I have a small multi-age center, they spend 75% of their day as a group, but the Littles and the Bigs are separated twice a day, once in the morning, once in the afternoon. But each group has its own adult, so both groups have direct supervision and adult interaction. If your "zone" is totally visible, well stocked with interesting age appropriate stuff, the girl can see and touch the other kids around her, its ok in my opinion. If you and the other kids are verbally and visually including her, its ok. Maybe you have an older child that can go in the zone with her on occasion? We allow our ages groups to totally intermingle, even during their "separate" times. If Big Girl X is not interested in what her age peers are doing, she'll come to the room or area where the Littles are and hang out for awhile. Likewise, if Little Boy X is particularly into legos, he can go hang with the Bigs if they are doing Legos. But I digress.... Sounds to me this little girl in her zone is pretty much appropriate because she's easily supervisable, engaged and still spends a substantial portion of the day with the other kids, you're doing the right thing. For you, and for the girl. Maybe send mom some pics of her chillin' in the zone, happy, playing toys. Unposed, natural pics. And also send pics of her with the group too, participating. If she's really unhappy about it, maybe she can come observe. Communication is key, you should talk, tell her how you feel, agree on a plan. Also, remind her she is aging quickly and can be constructively included VERY soon, within 6 months. Hope that helps.

[Sugar Magnolia]

It has always seemed to me that as soon as a baby can walk well and make some sort of verbal babbling response to an older child's "pretend you say ..." the younger becomes a playmate. A dumping, grabbing one, but a friend nonetheless, and the older ones seem pleased to include their new friend. Some of the time anyway. Then when they need to do "big kid" things, the littles go in high chair for a snack or water play, or bigger ones go to the kitchen table for their activities. My house is small, but I'm thinking of gating older kids into a hallway next to play area so they can play w/ smaller-pieced games there while littlest are kept from bothering them. I once worked in a center and I like the multi-age mixture so much more than having all the kids the same age. i think kids exposed to older ones on a daily basis learn everything so much more quickly!

Wow! I didn't read the other replies before I posted, but I just scrolled up and saw yours! Yes! You just described my center. :-). I think the OP is basically including her, just giving her some separate time and space so the older kids can do stuff on their developmental level too. The morning 90 mins is a little long though maybe. 45 tops I'd say. As long as the girl is happy in her zone.

[mac60]

You need to do what you have to in order for each and every child to be safe. Not everyone has a "whole house daycare setup" to have separate spaces. There is nothing wrong with gating off a safe zone for a little one to play/crawl around safe from being stepped on by the older kids. Even if a little one is gated off, it does not mean they are separated.

[countrymom]

I know I'll be the odd man out here, as usual, but I agree with Mom. It IS isolating her. It is also not helping her learn how to interact appropriately with the rest of the group. She will never learn if she doesn't have ample opportunity to do so. It doesn't matter if it is now or later that she is allowed to join, she will STILL have to learn appropriate social interactions....I say the sooner, the better.

I would get rid of the toddler zone, and consistently work with her to help her learn how to interact with the older children, and I would also be teaching the older children to be accomodating and helpful to her.

FTR....in 15 years I have never separated the infants/toddlers from the older children. They learn, just as siblings at home, to work and play together and to accomdate one another.

I agree. I don't have seperate areas and the children learn to play together. Sure at first I spend time seperating them but it usually lasts for about a week or two. The older kids need to learn to play with younger children, they are the ones that need to learn to share too.

[Blackcat31]

You know the more I think about it the more I believe the biggest problem for me is that I have 4 boys that are so WILD. All they want to do is run, wrestle and shoot. Even to get them to calm down enough to do any "school" type activity is difficult. I have had nothing but boys in my daycare for about 10 years now, just a girl here and there. I think I am burnt out on boys. ::

I have put the older kids in the "zone" to play away from the toddler. That lasts about 10 minutes tops and they want out. Only to want in again in about 20 minutes. I also will let the boys go in my dinning area to play with little legos, I can see them, but the toddler can't.

If the boys were truly bothered by the toddler, I would think they would WANT to stay in the gated area away form her then. Maybe set a rule such as 'you go over the gate and choose to come out you cannot re-enter'. Makes them think carefully about the choices they make.

I do not have her in the gated area for more than 2.25 hours in a day out of her 6 waking hours here. So she is out more than she is in. She can see everyone and talk to them and they can talk to her. It isn't like she is in a separate room. What is the difference with this then a lot of us in being in a playpen as toddlers? Nothing, that is what.

That is the point I think everyone was missing. (maybe mom as well ? )

This is true, however, remember that Montessori splits ages into 0-3 and 3-6. I'm not sure of the higher splits. There is definitely some age split though.

Yes, the age split is correct, however, the training I am looking at teaches how to integrate the 0-6 age group successfully in small groups. Most Montessori schools are split as you stated but there are 15-20 kids in each classroom which IMPO, would make mixing ages more difficult.

Personally, I can't seem to mix kids until they are about 18 months to 2--much closer to the age where they can begin to understand that other people have different thoughts, feels, and wants than they do. Depends somewhat on the age of the older kids and the exact composition of the group.

I think for me the biggest reason I am able to mix age groups so succcessfully is that I only take really young ones if they are siblings of kids I have already and have grown up here. They know my rules and expectations AND they are completely used to the little one at home so for them it is "normal" to have the toddler around. The kids i have who aren't related all take cues from the rest of the group so it works well.

I have yet to come across a toddler I am unable to allow to roam freely (knock on wood! LOL!!)

[sharlan]

I never had the room to seperate the kids. The older ones learned quickly to watch out for the littles. Even here, I never seperted them. They quickly learn to co-exist. Little Legos and such were played with at the table to prevent the littles from getting to them.

[SilverSabre25]

Wow it must have something to do with my group...or I ****...because back in the spring I desperately needed to separate the littles from the bigs, and there wasn't a huge age gap or anything, just a development gap. The oldest at the time was just over 3, with a 2.5, 1.75, 1.5, 12-15 months, and then a couple 1's who came and left in quick succession (couple months each)

Well actually...let me think...maybe it was mostly those youngest children that prevented the group from working well together. My three dcks and my DD play together like a dream now and as soon as my DS is walking I don't see why he wouldn't join them. Same with the baby sib I get in Jan who's about six weeks younger than DS.

Now granted I first separated last winter when my life went all to crap with one big disaster after another and being sic and tired form being pregnant and stressed on top of that.

Maybe I need to re-evaluate my opinon on the separation thing, now that I think about it.

I still can't see any way of NOT separating my babies and crawlers, though...not with the "spirited" group I have.

[Cat Herder]

I separate the littles from the bigs for free play 2-3 times a day, as needed..in the same room It prevents injuries and spawns creative, independent, play.

Sometimes I even separate the bigs when they are accidentally stepping on each others buildings/castles/forests. :: They ask me to.

IMHO, The bigs should not be forced to care for/supervise the littles...that is my job. It was expected of me alot as a child . I resented it. It made me dislike the younger kids. Never getting to have my own play space and always having someones else's feelings treated as more important than mine was infuriating. I hated going to daycare for that reason . I want each of my DCK's to feel important, validated and at home.

Agree, disagree...my view is my own and my clients like it. Maybe they are all just the oldest sibling in their family, maybe they experienced it as well...who knows. They get it. The kids are here 9.5 hours a day...that is just too long to be touched non-stop by others everyday.

The rest of the day I am right there, 100% attentive, so they can hang out and play as a group. I am able to intervene instantly, not from across the room/house. THAT is when they learn to enjoy each other; when I am there to model and guide behavior.

When I can't be at their 100% disposal (preparing lunch, prepping art/curriculum, changing diapers, putting out mats, mopping spills, taking one to the potty, etc.) they go to their age appropriate play area (in the same room) until I am back.

Isolation and Separation are not really the same concept. There is never a time when these kids cannot see, hear or communicate with one another.

[frgsonmysox]

I think it would bother me that she appears to be the only child in the toddler zone, so while she may hear and see the other kids she isn't really playing with them. If there were more toddlers I think it would be less of an issue.