Mom Does't Like Toddler Zone

[Crystal]

Actually, the OP said she started using the toddler zone for the bigger kids so the toddler is not dumping/knocking stuff over, etc. She did not say she is using it to protect the toddler, but rather to protect the older children. IMO, that is just avoiding having to deal with teaching appropriate behavior and not having to clean up the mess. I'm sure a few minutes here and there are for safety, but that was not the intention, based on what Op has said.

Originally posted by Daycare: this is pretty much what I said as well....But what would you do with this child at this age when you are cooking food or prepping and you can't have your eyes on them? Do you leave them in the room all together??

I do have the luxury of typically having one or more adults around. But, even at times when I don't, yes, the children are all together. I stay in the room with the children, but I have an open concept floor plan so I can see them from most anywhere on the first floor, no matter where I am.

EDITED: I reread the OP and see that she did say it is also to protect the little one. My bad....sorry.

[Crystal]

The OP said she wasn't there all the time. This was an option she created to give the big kids some time without having a young one wreck havoc on their projects and such. I can see the benefits to do a zone and to not do the zone but in this case, the OP wasn't asking if she should or should not do one.....she already has one going, it works for her and her group, the only one that doesn't like it is mom. I understand the mom's point of view but just because mom feels that way does not mean that the provider has to change anything. I think the mom would come around to it when she realizes that her child isn't isolated (all alone) but separated on occasion.

Actually, she did ask:

Originally posted by 2ndFamilyDC: What would you all do? continue to use the toddler zone for her
or keep her out amongst the other kids all day? What to tell the mom?

[daycare]

Actually, the OP said she started using the toddler zone for the bigger kids so the toddler is not dumping/knocking stuff over, etc. She did not say she is using it to protect the toddler, but rather to protect the older children. IMO, that is just avoiding having to deal with teaching appropriate behavior and not having to clean up the mess. I'm sure a few minutes here and there are for safety, but that was not the intention, based on what Op has said.

Originally posted by Daycare: this is pretty much what I said as well....But what would you do with this child at this age when you are cooking food or prepping and you can't have your eyes on them? Do you leave them in the room all together??

I do have the luxury of typically having one or more adults around. But, even at times when I don't, yes, the children are all together. I stay in the room with the children, but I have an open concept floor plan so I can see them from most anywhere on the first floor, no matter where I am.

LUCKY.... I want another adult around to help out, but I think I would go crazy with another person being in my house all day long.

I see what you are saying. I also have a some what open floor plan, but there is one blind spot that I just could not trust.... All of my kids play so nice together, but I still remove my little one when i need to be in the kitchen, bathroom, or at the door....

[Crystal]

I agree with the fact that the older kids need some space to play without littles knocking down their buildings and such HOWEVER, it is isolating the toddler. She will never learn appropriate social skills or how to interact with others if she isn't given the opportunity to do so.

My space is set up so that 75% of it is for mixed age groups and there is one space the older kids (in groups of 2 or 3 ) can choose to go and play with items/toys that have small pieces. It is my older kids who are allowed to be separated and not the other way around.

I also agree that if mom was told this during enrollment, then she really shouldn't be complaining now, however if it is somehting new, I guess I would be upset too.

The older kids also need experience in how to solve social conflicts as well, one of which is younger children and everything that comes along with them.

Yes! My space is set up so that the older children can find space for privacy and to play quietly alone or with one or two playmates. The infants and toddlers also have spaces they can go to be alone, or have quiet time, but they go to them as they choose....for instance a quiet cozy corner with a sheer curtain, books and a blankie.

[Crystal]

LUCKY.... I want another adult around to help out, but I think I would go crazy with another person being in my house all day long.

I see what you are saying. I also have a some what open floor plan, but there is one blind spot that I just could not trust.... All of my kids play so nice together, but I still remove my little one when i need to be in the kitchen, bathroom, or at the door....

Haha, my hubby works with me full time....think you could handle having hubby around all day?! Nah, kidding, we work GREAT together! And, then I have student teachers working here as well, they spend 3 hours per day here doing their practicum/labwork for college. So, I am lucky that I have extra eyes and hands.

And, I really see nothing wrong with putting toddler ina play yard or whatever for a moment or two while tending to necessary tasks, but when they are separated for a large portion of free play time, well, I just see that as a fabulous learning opportunity for the toddler AND the older children that is being missed out on.

[mismatchedsocks]

I have an open floor plan and the "living room" is set up for non walkers or non sturdy walkers, and the other room is more a preschool. The older ones know that IF they go into the "living room" they must use quiet voices, soft feet and nice words, no touching. This is for safety. I wonder what a "toddler" zone looks like to the OP.

I do have ALL the kids join me in a TOTALLY different room, we call the green room, to do circle time, science, math, and that is where they nap. There is no furniture in there just soft pillows, etc. I say my "seperate" time is about the same as the OP. One hour in morning and about one hour in afternoon. I sit somewhere in middle, helping older kids if they need it, assisting younger kids if they need it.

This is what i think of a toddler zone. Am i way off?!

[Meeko]

I think it depends how much time the children are apart. One of my big selling points for parents is that I don't separate the kids very much. We are FAMILY group for a reason!

However, I CAN and HAVE separated toddlers from older kids if the need arises (extra messy art activity for example)

The mom may be worried that her child is spending hours alone. The provider needs to discuss with the mom and come to an understanding on when it's OK to have her in the toddler zone.

[Blackcat31]

One of the biggest concepts in Montessori education is the positives and benefits of mixed age groups.

1. Interaction: The mixed age group environment creates an atmosphere where children learn to help and be helped by other children, because they interact consistently with children whose age and abilities are varied. Children gain an appreciation for their achievement and the accomplishments of others, and are naturally challenged by the achievements of others.

2. Learning from Each Other: Older children learn to be patient and tolerant, and serve as role models and teachers for the younger children. When an older child teaches a younger one, it reinforces previously learned concepts and is actually an aid in complete mastery of concepts. Younger children learn about courtesy, manners, and conflict resolution by watching the older children in the class

I think peer teaching/learning is a wonderful thing that not too many kids get at home any more due to family size being much smaller than in years past.

If you are from a family with a few siblings, stop and think of how much you have learned from them and how much they learned from you while young.

[2ndFamilyDC]

Let her know that this is what works in your daycare setting and you are working on teaching her appropriate play and social skills so the goal is, eventually, for her to be with the group 100% of the time down the road. The toddler zone is a temporary option to keep her safe and provide age appropriate toys and play space. Do not tell her the specific times the zone is used, just that you use it when you have to have a safe space for her. Make sure to let her know all the positives about the area

This is it exactly. I have been working on her daily so when she is out
with the other kids she understands how it works.

I tried to explain it this to the mom, I showed her the space, which is in the room we are in, she is not isolated, there is a gate between her and the other kids. She can touch them they can touch her, they talk to each other.

I talked to her about safety..........she said "I am not worried about her
getting hurt, she needs to learn how to fend for herself, she is a fighter"


Hoping the mom comes around, because having her out today was
not fun for any of us, not even for her.

[JenNJ]

I know I'll be the odd man out here, as usual, but I agree with Mom. It IS isolating her. It is also not helping her learn how to interact appropriately with the rest of the group. She will never learn if she doesn't have ample opportunity to do so. It doesn't matter if it is now or later that she is allowed to join, she will STILL have to learn appropriate social interactions....I say the sooner, the better.

I would get rid of the toddler zone, and consistently work with her to help her learn how to interact with the older children, and I would also be teaching the older children to be accomodating and helpful to her.

FTR....in 15 years I have never separated the infants/toddlers from the older children. They learn, just as siblings at home, to work and play together and to accomdate one another.

Agree 100%. My kids are thrown into the deep end as soon as they can crawl. I teaches everyone something. Teacher the older kids patience and understanding. Teaches the younger ones respect for others and manners. It can be really great for everyone.

[2ndFamilyDC]

One of the biggest concepts in Montessori education is the positives and benefits of mixed age groups.

1. Interaction: The mixed age group environment creates an atmosphere where children learn to help and be helped by other children, because they interact consistently with children whose age and abilities are varied. Children gain an appreciation for their achievement and the accomplishments of others, and are naturally challenged by the achievements of others.

2. Learning from Each Other: Older children learn to be patient and tolerant, and serve as role models and teachers for the younger children. When an older child teaches a younger one, it reinforces previously learned concepts and is actually an aid in complete mastery of concepts. Younger children learn about courtesy, manners, and conflict resolution by watching the older children in the class

I think peer teaching/learning is a wonderful thing that not too many kids get at home any more due to family size being much smaller than in years past.

If you are from a family with a few siblings, stop and think of how much you have learned from them and how much they learned from you while young.

For 22 years I have had mixed ages. Always thought it was a great thing.

But in the last few years I have figured out that it does not work well for me.
I see how much the older kids cannot do because of the younger ones, it is not fair to them.

To me it does not work well. Maybe it is because I am not 30 any more. I seemed to do it just fine years ago, but no longer find it to be so easy.

I try to play games with the older kids, the toddler is grabbing all the pieces and screaming because I don't let her. we do puzzles the toddler is grabbing the pieces and running, we get them back and she is screaming.

Who is that fun for???

[Blackcat31]

For 22 years I have had mixed ages. Always thought it was a great thing.

But in the last few years I have figured out that it does not work well for me.
I see how much the older kids cannot do because of the younger ones, it is not fair to them.

To me it does not work well. Maybe it is because I am not 30 any more. I seemed to do it just fine years ago, but no longer find it to be so easy.

I try to play games with the older kids, the toddler is grabbing all the pieces and screaming because I don't let her. we do puzzles the toddler is grabbing the pieces and running, we get them back and she is screaming.

Who is that fun for???

I hear you....I often find what worked for me when I first opened is not working so well now this many years later. I completely understand where you are coming from. I guess I am just lucky enough that I haven't had such a "busy" toddler in care yet. (knock on wood..LOL!) I can see how it would be frustrating for everyone.

I am also the oldest of 6 kids so I have soft spot for privacy and personal space for the older kids. I guess I more or less do it the same way as you with separate space for the older ones but it is them that get put in a gated area and the toddlers stay out in the main area...does that make sense?

When my older ones want to play Lego's or anything that requires set up, they ask and I put them in a different room and gate it off. So I guess I have a "Zone" too but it is a big kid zone.

I also have 2 toddlers who play pretty nicely and independently of the older kids so I am lucky there too.

I do agree that you do need to do what works for you and since we are running group care, you need to do what is best for the group as a whole.

[Heidi]

I hear you....I often find what worked for me when I first opened is not working so well now this many years later. I completely understand where you are coming from. I guess I am just lucky enough that I haven't had such a "busy" toddler in care yet. (knock on wood..LOL!) I can see how it would be frustrating for everyone.

I am also the oldest of 6 kids so I have soft spot for privacy and personal space for the older kids. I guess I more or less do it the same way as you with separate space for the older ones but it is them that get put in a gated area and the toddlers stay out in the main area...does that make sense?

When my older ones want to play Lego's or anything that requires set up, they ask and I put them in a different room and gate it off. So I guess I have a "Zone" too but it is a big kid zone.

I also have 2 toddlers who play pretty nicely and independently of the older kids so I am lucky there too.

I do agree that you do need to do what works for you and since we are running group care, you need to do what is best for the group as a whole.

I love love love Montessori, but the program is most of used for 2.5-5 year olds, who are at a completely different developmental level than the toddlers.
I know there are infant and toddler Montesori programs, but they are seperate from the preschool group, and the set up is quite different.

I agree that you have to do what works for you and your children. Having 7 f4 yo's and a 1 year old is different than having 3 1 yo's and a couple older ones.

[2ndFamilyDC]

I am also the oldest of 6 kids so I have soft spot for privacy and personal space for the older kids. I guess I more or less do it the same way as you with separate space for the older ones but it is them that get put in a gated area and the toddlers stay out in the main area...does that make sense?

When my older ones want to play Lego's or anything that requires set up, they ask and I put them in a different room and gate it off. So I guess I have a "Zone" too but it is a big kid zone.

I also have 2 toddlers who play pretty nicely and independently of the older kids so I am lucky there too.

I do agree that you do need to do what works for you and since we are running group care, you need to do what is best for the group as a whole.

You know the more I think about it the more I believe the biggest problem for me is that I have 4 boys that are so WILD. All they want to do is run, wrestle and shoot. Even to get them to calm down enough to do any "school" type activity is difficult. I have had nothing but boys in my daycare for about 10 years now, just a girl here and there. I think I am burnt out on boys. ::

I have put the older kids in the "zone" to play away from the toddler. That lasts about 10 minutes tops and they want out. Only to want in again in about 20 minutes. I also will let the boys go in my dinning area to play with little legos, I can see them, but the toddler can't.

I do not have her in the gated area for more than 2.25 hours in a day out of her 6 waking hours here. So she is out more than she is in. She can see everyone and talk to them and they can talk to her. It isn't like she is in a separate room. What is the difference with this then a lot of us in being in a playpen as toddlers? Nothing, that is what.

[SilverSabre25]

One of the biggest concepts in Montessori education is the positives and benefits of mixed age groups.

1. Interaction: The mixed age group environment creates an atmosphere where children learn to help and be helped by other children, because they interact consistently with children whose age and abilities are varied. Children gain an appreciation for their achievement and the accomplishments of others, and are naturally challenged by the achievements of others.

2. Learning from Each Other: Older children learn to be patient and tolerant, and serve as role models and teachers for the younger children. When an older child teaches a younger one, it reinforces previously learned concepts and is actually an aid in complete mastery of concepts. Younger children learn about courtesy, manners, and conflict resolution by watching the older children in the class

I think peer teaching/learning is a wonderful thing that not too many kids get at home any more due to family size being much smaller than in years past.

If you are from a family with a few siblings, stop and think of how much you have learned from them and how much they learned from you while young.

This is true, however, remember that Montessori splits ages into 0-3 and 3-6. I'm not sure of the higher splits. There is definitely some age split though.

Personally, I can't seem to mix kids until they are about 18 months to 2--much closer to the age where they can begin to understand that other people have different thoughts, feels, and wants than they do. Depends somewhat on the age of the older kids and the exact composition of the group.