Unstable Environment

[nannyde]

Yup!

There is no way these centers provide better care than a stay at home mom or an in home daycare.

For crying out loud, where do the lil daycare kids get put when they have flunked out of several in home daycares for biting, hitting, kicking?....Big centers!!:: Why? ...because the centers will tolerate practically any behavior for money.

In my opinion most of these big centers are filled with 1) children of parents who just want their kids warehoused during the work day ....you know, whatever is easiest for the parents. ...or 2) children who have been termed from several in home daycares.

long hours... that's the biggest draw of all

[youretooloud]

long hours... that's the biggest draw of all

Long hours, and no personal days. No need for backup care.

Really though, centers are the right choice for some families, and I am all for daycare centers. I've heard really bad things about "Sunrise Preschool", but heard great things about "Tutor Time". So, I think it's just what some people need.

I still like my daycare better anyway.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Center VS in-home: a different perspective

I HAVE to weigh in on this topic! When my husband and I opened our center, we reviewed the pros and cons of home vs. center. We had experience with our oldest child in both. We found home day cares had a lot of close, personal attention, but not a lot of structure. Large centers have a lot of structure, but not much individualized attention. While in home day care, our son seemed bored and unchallenged, but after switching to a center, he seemed to get lost in the crowd. So.....we wanted to do a child care business that was the BEST of both worlds. We bought a cute historic home and turned it into a licensed center, a SMALL center. We have 15 children ages 1 to 5. We take a multi-age approach. Older children assume roles of responsibility and leadership, younger ones learn and grow on a higher 'curve' due to our inclusion methods. We have one staff person, besides my husband and myself, so we have SUPER low ratios. Quite frankly, we know large centers have as many students for as few staff as the law allows. This is NOT what's best for children. We offer close, individualized attention AND the structure and educational programs. We have ZERO staff turnover, kids have the same 3 teachers for their entire preschool career. We love it, the kids love it, the parents love it. I can only hope that our small-center concept becomes more popular, because it truly is the best of both worlds.

[Sugar Magnolia]

WOW that is a high turn over rate. I would pull my kid asap as well.

Try a home daycare for him. I work in a center and I am totally pro home daycare. Although, that is another post completely.

Good luck with your search.

I hope you read my post in this thread! You would be the perfect person to start your OWN center! Its not as expensive or as hard as you might think! Small, multi-age centers are (hopefully) the wave of the future!

[Sugar Magnolia]

Interested in feedback...

Are you referring to "in home" kids as in home day care kids or in home.. in the kids home kids?

What area are you talking about? I've never read any statistics about a high ratio of home kids that go into preschool programs being further behind in anything educational than kids that are in Center care.

I think the Centers want you to think that. I think they make a ton of money off of you believing that. I don't think there are any statistics to back that up.

Believe me you... if Centers could prove that kids fare better academically in their program they would HAVE research on it. They get to call themselves school but they don't have to back it up with actual standardized testing. It works beautifully for them... you buy it and they make a lot of money off of it.

Big brick and mortar building that
Has an office like a school.
Has a "principal" / "director" like a school.
Has big classrooms like a school.
Calls employees who don't even have to have a high school education "teachers" like a school has teachers.

Stir it together and you have ... dah dah dah dah...... Preschool.

You ever wonder why BIG chain day cares don't ever research their own population when it's SO huge and so variable across the country? Why hasn't Kinder Care, KidsRKids, Apple Tree, Traditions, etc... Why don't THEY research their own kids and prove their kids fare better once they are in school?

I am new here. You seem to be very knowledgeable and have good insight. Please read my post on this thread if you don't mind. I am eager to here thoughts/opinions on my center and my approach.

[youretooloud]

I HAVE to weigh in on this topic! When my husband and I opened our center, we reviewed the pros and cons of home vs. center. We had experience with our oldest child in both. We found home day cares had a lot of close, personal attention, but not a lot of structure. Large centers have a lot of structure, but not much individualized attention. While in home day care, our son seemed bored and unchallenged, but after switching to a center, he seemed to get lost in the crowd. So.....we wanted to do a child care business that was the BEST of both worlds. We bought a cute historic home and turned it into a licensed center, a SMALL center. We have 15 children ages 1 to 5. We take a multi-age approach. Older children assume roles of responsibility and leadership, younger ones learn and grow on a higher 'curve' due to our inclusion methods. We have one staff person, besides my husband and myself, so we have SUPER low ratios. Quite frankly, we know large centers have as many students for as few staff as the law allows. This is NOT what's best for children. We offer close, individualized attention AND the structure and educational programs. We have ZERO staff turnover, kids have the same 3 teachers for their entire preschool career. We love it, the kids love it, the parents love it. I can only hope that our small-center concept becomes more popular, because it truly is the best of both worlds.

That is an ideal setting. I wish there were more like that around here.

[nannyde]

I can only hope that our small-center concept becomes more popular, because it truly is the best of both worlds.

In my state it wouldn't work at all. The ratio requirements by law are based on the youngest child in the room. If they combined children from birth up to two then the ratio requirement would be one adult to four kids. If they combined three year olds with ages up to five the ratio would have to be one adult to eight kids.

Centers get killed on birth to two... break even on two year olds (one to six) and make their money off of three to five year olds. They HAVE to have a certain amount of their slots for the infants in order to keep the three to five rooms full.

Doing small groups of 15 would not support the high cost of the physical environment they have to maintain. The sprinkler system... fire code regs, and the grease trap alone could not possibly be supported by that small of a group UNLESS the rates were twice that of a normal center infant slot. It's impossible within the regulations.

We do have a home option to do multi level aged groups and carry 12 full time kids with two part time preK's and two part time school aged. That's the closest I could come to your scenario. Unfortunately they only allow four infants in that ratio so that makes it very difficult to stay full. Maintaining 10 two to five slots with only four infant slots feeding into it is nearly impossible in this economy.

[Unregistered]

just our experiences

Are you referring to "in home" kids as in home day care kids or in home.. in the kids home kids?

What area are you talking about? I've never read any statistics about a high ratio of home kids that go into preschool programs being further behind in anything educational than kids that are in Center care.

I think the Centers want you to think that. I think they make a ton of money off of you believing that. I don't think there are any statistics to back that up.

Believe me you... if Centers could prove that kids fare better academically in their program they would HAVE research on it. They get to call themselves school but they don't have to back it up with actual standardized testing. It works beautifully for them... you buy it and they make a lot of money off of it.

Big brick and mortar building that
Has an office like a school.
Has a "principal" / "director" like a school.
Has big classrooms like a school.
Calls employees who don't even have to have a high school education "teachers" like a school has teachers.

Stir it together and you have ... dah dah dah dah...... Preschool.

You ever wonder why BIG chain day cares don't ever research their own population when it's SO huge and so variable across the country? Why hasn't Kinder Care, KidsRKids, Apple Tree, Traditions, etc... Why don't THEY research their own kids and prove their kids fare better once they are in school?

I'm speaking strictly from talking with my friends who've had kids in home based daycare programs. None of them were happy because the lack of education they felt their kids received and moved to centers at the preschool level and their kids were behind the other centered kids - and this info comes from parents that were teachers in the local school systems so they knew their kids were further behind. I'm speaking strictly in our area where we live - virtually everyone I know who has their child enrolled in an in home moves them to center based for preschool. Could be a regional thing? I think it's important though for kids to have some kind of large group experience in preschool since they will have to be part of a large group in preschool. Even the headstart programs prescreens our area's kids for a number of different aspects to better ready them for kindergarten and enrolls them in headstart if need be.

[Unregistered]

I think it's important though for kids to have some kind of large group experience in preschool since they will have to be part of a large group in preschool.

I meant to say since they will have to be part of a large group in kingergarten.

[Meeko]

I HAVE to weigh in on this topic! When my husband and I opened our center, we reviewed the pros and cons of home vs. center. We had experience with our oldest child in both. We found home day cares had a lot of close, personal attention, but not a lot of structure. Large centers have a lot of structure, but not much individualized attention. While in home day care, our son seemed bored and unchallenged, but after switching to a center, he seemed to get lost in the crowd. So.....we wanted to do a child care business that was the BEST of both worlds. We bought a cute historic home and turned it into a licensed center, a SMALL center. We have 15 children ages 1 to 5. We take a multi-age approach. Older children assume roles of responsibility and leadership, younger ones learn and grow on a higher 'curve' due to our inclusion methods. We have one staff person, besides my husband and myself, so we have SUPER low ratios. Quite frankly, we know large centers have as many students for as few staff as the law allows. This is NOT what's best for children. We offer close, individualized attention AND the structure and educational programs. We have ZERO staff turnover, kids have the same 3 teachers for their entire preschool career. We love it, the kids love it, the parents love it. I can only hope that our small-center concept becomes more popular, because it truly is the best of both worlds.

Many of our clients come to us for many of the same reasons. We are licensed for 16. Our kids don't get lost in the numbers as is often the case in a large center, but we have a larger area dedicated to the children than most home day cares.

I honestly think that one of the most important things to the kids is a familiar, loving face each morning. Someone who really KNOWS them and is interested in them. It must be very scary for children to turn up at a large center on Monday morning to find the teacher they have grown to love is gone forever and a complete stranger is there to take care of them. Same for the parents too! They get no say in who is actually taking care of their children.

[Meeko]

I live in Utah. Many families have more kids at home than some day cares! My husband has 12 siblings! (his mother deserved a medal) Two of his sisters have 9 kids each.........So no need to experience larger groups of kids before kindy. They get that at home LOL!!! We "only" have 4 kids....so we're a small family around here!!!

[Sugar Magnolia]

In my state it wouldn't work at all. The ratio requirements by law are based on the youngest child in the room. If they combined children from birth up to two then the ratio requirement would be one adult to four kids. If they combined three year olds with ages up to five the ratio would have to be one adult to eight kids.

Centers get killed on birth to two... break even on two year olds (one to six) and make their money off of three to five year olds. They HAVE to have a certain amount of their slots for the infants in order to keep the three to five rooms full.

Doing small groups of 15 would not support the high cost of the physical environment they have to maintain. The sprinkler system... fire code regs, and the grease trap alone could not possibly be supported by that small of a group UNLESS the rates were twice that of a normal center infant slot. It's impossible within the regulations.

We do have a home option to do multi level aged groups and carry 12 full time kids with two part time preK's and two part time school aged. That's the closest I could come to your scenario. Unfortunately they only allow four infants in that ratio so that makes it very difficult to stay full. Maintaining 10 two to five slots with only four infant slots feeding into it is nearly impossible in this economy.

Thank you for your input! We don't do infants, just 1-5 year olds. We have 3 one year olds, 3 two year olds, 5 three year olds and 3 four and five year olds. With three staff members, the ratios are WAY below state mandated ratios. This is the big draw for parents. In Florida, the ratio for 3 year olds, for example, is 1:15. I think ONE adult for 15 kids is obscene! And the state ratios for 1 year olds is 1:6. How can one person manage 6 one year olds? No wonder large centers have massive turnover!!!!

As for the financials, it does work for us. Quite well. We charge the same rate as the kid-mill, errr I mean 'center' down the street, $175 per week for all ages, that is the going rate in our area. We pay our staffer $10 an hour. We own the property, instead of renting, so our costs are low. My husband and I are not getting rich, but we make a decent living. What I really, really, really want is to spread the word about small centers being a viable option. I am MOST interested in feedback on our multi-age approach, and hope to convince other center directors to try it. Multi-age does NOT mean the 1 year olds do the same things the 5 year olds do. We do age appropriate developmental activities in small group settings, but our "routines" are all done together, the way a family would. All ages free play, eat, nap, and go outside together. No seperate rooms for 1 year olds, 2 year olds, etc. Hope people out there understand the concept...and like it.

[Sugar Magnolia]

That is an ideal setting. I wish there were more like that around here.

You can do it too!!!! Its not easy, but NOT impossible either!!! We had plenty of nay-sayers, but we did it our way anyways. I would love to advise anyone that was interested.....

[Sugar Magnolia]

Many of our clients come to us for many of the same reasons. We are licensed for 16. Our kids don't get lost in the numbers as is often the case in a large center, but we have a larger area dedicated to the children than most home day cares.

I honestly think that one of the most important things to the kids is a familiar, loving face each morning. Someone who really KNOWS them and is interested in them. It must be very scary for children to turn up at a large center on Monday morning to find the teacher they have grown to love is gone forever and a complete stranger is there to take care of them. Same for the parents too! They get no say in who is actually taking care of their children.

Yes, sounds a lot like our place! We don't live there, otherwise we are similar to a large family day care. You must do a multi-age approach then too? Yah!!!!

[Meeko]

Yes, sounds a lot like our place! We don't live there, otherwise we are similar to a large family day care. You must do a multi-age approach then too? Yah!!!!

My son lives in the home..(I live in the next town with my hubby and younger children).....but has turned two bedrooms at the end of the house into a bedroom and a living room. The rest of the home is dedicated just to the children. Several playrooms, lunchroom, art room etc. We do not completely separate the babies and older kids. We live like a great big family (my husband has 12 siblings...so this is normal to him) Siblings get to play with each other all day. Older kids get to help with younger ones (5 year old will help 2 year old with putting on shoes etc)

It's been a big selling point with parents. They love the room we have to spread out and yet their kids don't feel like they are off to "school" every morning. I do not believe 2 years olds need to go to "school". They need a home atmosphere with people who love them and they need to be able to interact with their siblings, and children of different ages. I think they get a better education that way than spending their entire day in one classroom with kids all the same age.

We are not licensed as a center, but as a large family group home. We must have two providers...which is usually my son and myself. But my husband and oldest daughter are also state licensed as providers and often come to help out. That way I can leave for appointments etc. and still be on ratio.