Made To Clean Own Vomit (4yr. Old)

[Unregistered]

It has recently come to my attention that the daycare we use has begun to make my 4 yr old clean up his own vomit. This even after we informed them that he is seeing a docter, is not contagous, and is unlikely he is doing this to come home. Which is what I am lead to believe is their position since they keep referwencing the fact that he does not seem otherwise sick. Mind you we have never picked him up just for vomiting, thay is, when he is with out any other symptoms.
My first reaction is this is crazy...their stance is we make all kids help clean up their messes unless they are legitametly sick. Is their any acceptable time a 4yr old should be made to clean up their vomit.

[JenNJ]

It's hard for me to understand your post.

Is your child ill when vomiting? Or is your child crying/tantruming so much that it is inducing vomiting? If neither of these is the issue, what is wrong with your child? Vomiting -- any vomiting -- requires immediate pickup at my daycare and 24 hours exclusion from the last episode.

No, I would not make a child clean up his/her own vomit if they were ill. If a child was intentionally vomiting to go home or to "get back" at the provider at 4 years old, I would have them assist in cleaning him/herself up. Washing hands, face, changing into fresh clothes, etc.

But, I would not take a child into care that was vomiting for an unknown reason. I suggest you look into what is causing this vomiting and get help for it.

[Cat Herder]

There are kids who do it on purpose when they do not get their way.

My niece used to pee her pants at the grocery store when her mom said no candy.....she knew it was her Moms "hot button".

My own kids used "smack" their lips loudly during dinner when they got a "no" for some lame request...they knew it made the vein in the middle of my forehead swell... I sent them on their merry way, hungry, and it stopped quickly.

Kids just think different.

This is not an uncommon practice in childcare, pre-school or the public school system.

The premise of the theory is that if you take the reward out of the behavior, the behavior changes.

Is it possible that they see the pattern more readily than you since you deal with just your children, while most of those providers have dealt with dozens of children using the same manipulation technique???

[jen]

It has recently come to my attention that the daycare we use has begun to make my 4 yr old clean up his own vomit. This even after we informed them that he is seeing a docter, is not contagous, and is unlikely he is doing this to come home. Which is what I am lead to believe is their position since they keep referwencing the fact that he does not seem otherwise sick. Mind you we have never picked him up just for vomiting, thay is, when he is with out any other symptoms.
My first reaction is this is crazy...their stance is we make all kids help clean up their messes unless they are legitametly sick. Is their any acceptable time a 4yr old should be made to clean up their vomit.

So, he is NOT vomitting to go home and he is NOT ill? Why do you believe he is vomiting then? Acid reflux or something of that nature? Is he special needs?

In any case, I can see why you are upset, however I also see that you are very lucky to still have care. Many, many places would have terminated care as this is a huge disruption and requires a great deal of time to clean and sanitze the area.

[kendallina]

Um, no it is NOT appropriate to make a child clean up his own vomit. When I worked in a center (in a different state) it was against regs to have a child clean up their own pee if they had an accident on the floor, I would think vomit would be the same thing. I think the reg was worded something like, can't use punishments that are degrading or humiliating and the example was cleaning pee off the floor.

I would be pissed if my child was being made to clean up her own vomit at a daycare providers. It's not acceptable.

Does the doctor have any idea why this might be happening? What is your child doing right before it happens? Does it happen at home? Does he eat different things at daycare then at home?

[marniewon]

Yes, if the child was not sick, and doing this to get attention/go home, or in any other way on purpose, I would have him help clean this up. Just like if he threw his food on the floor, he would be cleaning that up also. Four years old is old enough to be accountable for his actions and help clean his messes.

I agree with the pp who said "The premise of the theory is that if you take the reward out of the behavior, the behavior changes".

Kendallina - how is that degrading behavior? IF it is done on purpose, it is no different than cleaning any other mess made (thrown food, toys, etc).

Now, if the child vomiting or wetting themselves was completely not on purpose, like a sick child, or a child who is really not potty trained yet, I would be beyond disgusted and pi$$ed if that child was made to clean it up.

As Jen said, you are very lucky to still have a place to take your child to for care, as most places do not have the resources to be cleaning that type of mess multiple times a day, every day.

[Cat Herder]

Um, no it is NOT appropriate to make a child clean up his own vomit. When I worked in a center (in a different state) it was against regs to have a child clean up their own pee if they had an accident on the floor, I would think vomit would be the same thing. I think the reg was worded something like, can't use punishments that are degrading or humiliating and the example was cleaning pee off the floor.

I would be pissed if my child was being made to clean up her own vomit at a daycare providers. It's not acceptable.

Does the doctor have any idea why this might be happening? What is your child doing right before it happens? Does it happen at home? Does he eat different things at daycare then at home?

This is not daycare.

This child is 4 and is learning self help behavior.

This would be Pre-School and really does not fall into "punishment". It is viewed as teaching them to care for themselves...

The policy says " they must HELP clean up their mess if they are not legitimately sick"....

I worked in large centers and this was the policy in the pre-school rooms.

I don't do "pre-school" so my services are "care based" and I do the gross cleaning up.

I see it as more of a communication issue...

[Unregistered]

As stated in original post there are no other symptoms idicating illness, fever, diarrehia, dehydration, lethargy etc. There are things like sliding hiatal hernia, reflux, week EG junction(cardiac sphyncter), pyloric stenosis etc etc. OF COURSE we our investigating this with his Doctor.

Further more since this can happen even at home and not always after every meal it makes it more difficult to isolate the cause.

We do realize we our lucky to have a DayCare that doesn't feel the need to call us everytime this happens. BUT as far as terminating us do to illness I believe PA Law addresses this and would not allow that once it is established as a medical condition and one that treatment is being sought and rendered, regardless of result or effactivness.

All that being said my original post was intended to querry thoughts on having a 4 year old clean up their vomit, when there is NO legitimet evidence to support that it is being done on purpose.

I have planned a conversation with the Director and am confident that when realized that this not intentional and is being addressed medically that we will come to an understanding.

[kendallina]

4-year old children do not understand how to properly clean up vomit without getting it into a disgusting mess. My children clean up their spills, their toys, then may even clean off their shoes when they're muddy, but to have them clean up bodily fluids is not appropriate or sanitary.

[Unregistered]

can't believe this one

I honestly can't believe that they are making your 4 year old clean up his own puke. I have a child with a long term, chronic medical condition that is undergoing treatment that would otherwise require being sent home except for the doctor's note and explainations the provider has. So I can begin to understand where you're coming from. I guess I have to agree with Jen on this one that you're lucky to have care because they can refuse based on not being able to acommodate, which is legal. I have had excellent care givers who are very understanding and have had other children with my child's same condition, so they are familiar with the care requirements. That being said, even if it was in your contract or handbook, I would think this violates your state's licensing. Cleaning up a mess, i.e. intentially smashing playdoh into the carpet or spilling juice on the kitchen floor, is one thing, but cleaning up a bodily fluid mess gets into sanitation and health dept issues, I would think. Providers are required as it is to wear latex gloves when changing diapers, so why would they think it's ok to let a 4 year old clean up puke. What would happen if your child got diarhea while in care, would they make him wash himself? If your child accidentally put poop in his mouth, he could get very sick. This goes along those same lines. I think you need higher up advice here. Just be glad at the moment that you have a provider that will take and keep your child with his condition!

[Unregistered]

made to clean own vomit

Well, I have since had further discussions with the director. It was not clear to them that this in fact also happens outside of day care , that it is being addressed medically and that he will no longer be asked to clean up in light of this clarification.

They expressed great concern and caring for him, I have no doubt they have his best interest and care in mind, and are willing to be patient why the diagnosis is sought.

[Another Unregistered]

Not right

If this is something chronic, like reflux or other GI problems, would you still make the child clean it up? That just doesn't sound right. You can be "legimiately sick" without being contagious. My own kiddo has reflux and severe allergies--until a few months ago, she's vomited several times a week. There are ways to teach a child with a health problem how to hit a basin instead of the floor without being harsh. Teaching him how to calm himself is also a plus.

A 4 yr-old shouldn't be handling s*****ing cleansers, etc. "Helping" by holding towels, bucket, changing their own clothes, etc. is one thing. Actually having to clean up their puke? Not right, and doesn't sound like it would fly with health regulations, depending on your county.

[Cat Herder]

Well, I have since had further discussions with the director. It was not clear to them that this in fact also happens outside of day care , that it is being addressed medically and that he will no longer be asked to clean up in light of this clarification.

They expressed great concern and caring for him, I have no doubt they have his best interest and care in mind, and are willing to be patient why the diagnosis is sought.

I am so glad to hear that!!

I thought it had to be a communication issue...

Thank you for talking to them instead of just terming and assuming the worst... You rock and they are lucky to have you as a client....

[Unregistered]

Well, I have since had further discussions with the director. It was not clear to them that this in fact also happens outside of day care , that it is being addressed medically and that he will no longer be asked to clean up in light of this clarification.

They expressed great concern and caring for him, I have no doubt they have his best interest and care in mind, and are willing to be patient why the diagnosis is sought.

Good, it sounds like you've got a good solution. It's tough enough when your child is going through something like this--then you have to untangle the misunderstandings! Good for you for claryifying it for them. I hope your son's symptoms ease soon.

[Cat Herder]

A 4 yr-old shouldn't be handling s*****ing cleansers, etc. "Helping" by holding towels, bucket, changing their own clothes, etc. is one thing. Actually having to clean up their puke? Not right, and doesn't sound like it would fly with health regulations, depending on your county.

That is what I personally witnessed, the rest is left up to interpretation through the vocabulary of a 4 year old. I am not saying everyone does play by the rules....I wish I could, though.

The teacher generally sprinkles a cedar based wood powder that absorbs the vomit and it is swept away. The child will sometimes hold a bucket, damp mop or wipe down the table (after the teacher has done the big portion).

It is no different than teaching them to wipe themselves, flush and clean up any mess they made on the seat at 4 years old....YKWIM?