Daycare Provider Purchased Pit Bull Mix

[QualiTcare]

nanny, he said that his friends child went to the daycare also. when my kids were in daycare, two of my closest friends had children there and i honestly knew probably a dozen more parents that i went to HS with or just knew and we would talk all the time either at the daycare or out in public.

it's not like he's going to look in the phone book and stalk facebook to try and find the phone numbers of clients he doesn't know.

but if the other parents are concerned, i don't see the problem approaching it as a group - meaning all of the parents speak up - that doesn't mean they all have to march in holding hands with picket signs. i could see myself saying, "i was talking to judy and jan and we're all concerned about ......"
and then when judy goes in she would say, "did qualit talk to you about ..." there would be nothing weird bc everyone knows we're friends.

there is power in numbers. if one parent is worried about the dog and it's not against licensing then that parent may not bother speaking up bc she's not going to do anything. BUT if 3 or 4 parents are concerned then she might worry about losing the kids and $$$ and get rid of it. either way, one person can't be blamed for her getting rid of the dog because it would be something the whole group wanted.

anyway, she's an idiot for doing such a thing without notice. what if a kid or parent was allergic? what if a parent didn't like pit bulls being around their child? they should've had the option to go elsewhere BEFORE the dog showed up.

[nannyde]

nanny, he said that his friends child went to the daycare also. when my kids were in daycare, two of my closest friends had children there and i honestly knew probably a dozen more parents that i went to HS with or just knew and we would talk all the time either at the daycare or out in public.

it's not like he's going to look in the phone book and stalk facebook to try and find the phone numbers of clients he doesn't know.

but if the other parents are concerned, i don't see the problem approaching it as a group - meaning all of the parents speak up - that doesn't mean they all have to march in holding hands with picket signs. i could see myself saying, "i was talking to judy and jan and we're all concerned about ......"
and then when judy goes in she would say, "did qualit talk to you about ..." there would be nothing weird bc everyone knows we're friends.

there is power in numbers. if one parent is worried about the dog and it's not against licensing then that parent may not bother speaking up bc she's not going to do anything. BUT if 3 or 4 parents are concerned then she might worry about losing the kids and $$$ and get rid of it. either way, one person can't be blamed for her getting rid of the dog because it would be something the whole group wanted.

anyway, she's an idiot for doing such a thing without notice. what if a kid or parent was allergic? what if a parent didn't like pit bulls being around their child? they should've had the option to go elsewhere BEFORE the dog showed up.

I agree she's a fool for doing it. I don't like those kinds of dogs cuz they scare me.

I don't ask day care parents about whether or not I can have a dog. I can look on the kids file and see allergies and nobody here is allergic to dogs. I just got a puppy less than a week ago and didn't say a word to them.

I know they have one friend who goes there but that's not what he was referring to when he said "rally" the parents. He already discussed it with THAT friend. He was specifically talking about the other parents.

I would not tolerate my parents teaming up to get something changed no matter what it was (unless it was to give me more money). It would show a poor business plan and would show that the parents didn't understand their place in my business. It would be disrespectful and just wouldn't fly.

I don't do power in numbers. I'm the power here. It's my business and my home. I have to be the leader all the time. It doesn't work for me otherwise. Any decision I make is for the best of my business so I wouldn't be interested in a group opinion on anything I had decided.

But that's just me. His provider may welcome a group opinion orchestrated by and brought to her by her clients. He knows her and she may well like that and really appreciate it.

[MrSint]

I agree she's a fool for doing it. I don't like those kinds of dogs cuz they scare me.

I don't ask day care parents about whether or not I can have a dog. I can look on the kids file and see allergies and nobody here is allergic to dogs. I just got a puppy less than a week ago and didn't say a word to them.

I know they have one friend who goes there but that's not what he was referring to when he said "rally" the parents. He already discussed it with THAT friend. He was specifically talking about the other parents.

I would not tolerate my parents teaming up to get something changed no matter what it was (unless it was to give me more money). It would show a poor business plan and would show that the parents didn't understand their place in my business. It would be disrespectful and just wouldn't fly.

I don't do power in numbers. I'm the power here. It's my business and my home. I have to be the leader all the time. It doesn't work for me otherwise. Any decision I make is for the best of my business so I wouldn't be interested in a group opinion on anything I had decided.

But that's just me. His provider may welcome a group opinion orchestrated by and brought to her by her clients. He knows her and she may well like that and really appreciate it.

To respond to a few questions raised - yes, my main desire is to maintain a stable environment for my child with a provider we've known & used a while - thus far successfully - not to mention all the friendships my daughter has forged and good relationships we have formed with other parents. Sure, it's comparatively affordable - but it's more a matter of those issues and the UNknown relative to any alternatives. And yes, since this is a home daycare in the neighborhood - like the previous poster noted, most of the other parents are also from the neighborhood that we either know personally or with whom have other such ties. And over time, there are the offsite birthday parties, playdates, etc... where we've come to know the rest outside of the actual daycare. I suppose you must be in a fortunate position where you can dictate a heavy handed attitude/policy of 'I'm the power here - my way or the highway - this is not a democracy' without apparently having to face any loss of business as a result - or perhaps you've not had such conflicts arise where potentially negative responses can get 'vetted out' so to speak. I would hope there's not much daycare supply in your area because I can tell you that if any parent in our daycare group were to have their child terminated for discussing legitimate concerns about the daycare with us and/or other parents - that would provide significant incentive for us & others to find alternative care from a provider we might view as less capricious, vindictive and/or have a generally more stable/appreciative philosophy as it relates to customer service. Besides, it strikes me as unrealistic to expect parents won't discuss daycare issues amongst themselves & resorting to such Draconian measures to prevent it might be cause for concern in and of itself. But, if you can carry on this way & be successful in your business... more power to you.

But let's say I DON'T discuss anything w/ the other parents... we have a nice chat with the daycare provider - maybe a few 'sorry you feel that way' statements are made - we leave - besides, from the DCP's perspective, it's only a couple kids right? Well, many of the other parents WILL end up asking us why we left - still others will discuss it with other parents we may not know so well - people will surely starting thinking hmmmm.... pit bull eh? And maybe a few more end up dropping off - and maybe she has more difficulty replacing those openings. If this IS or will become a concern for a number of her current/potential clients - it's probably better for her to know so now versus by piece meal where she may experience significant loss of revenue. And I'm open to the possibility that I may well be alone in my concerns... Let's face it - I jumped on HERE to get some outside perspective on the matter - do you really think it's unreasonable that I might seek opinions from other parents as well? IMO, to NOT do so would be irresponsible.

[QualiTcare]

I agree she's a fool for doing it. I don't like those kinds of dogs cuz they scare me.

I don't ask day care parents about whether or not I can have a dog. I can look on the kids file and see allergies and nobody here is allergic to dogs. I just got a puppy less than a week ago and didn't say a word to them.

I know they have one friend who goes there but that's not what he was referring to when he said "rally" the parents. He already discussed it with THAT friend. He was specifically talking about the other parents.

I would not tolerate my parents teaming up to get something changed no matter what it was (unless it was to give me more money). It would show a poor business plan and would show that the parents didn't understand their place in my business. It would be disrespectful and just wouldn't fly.

I don't do power in numbers. I'm the power here. It's my business and my home. I have to be the leader all the time. It doesn't work for me otherwise. Any decision I make is for the best of my business so I wouldn't be interested in a group opinion on anything I had decided.

But that's just me. His provider may welcome a group opinion orchestrated by and brought to her by her clients. He knows her and she may well like that and really appreciate it.

i know he only mentioned one friend, but what i meant, and what he just confirmed is that he could very well know other parents personally also. talking to your friends about something going on at daycare that concerns your children is different than "rallying clients." if he were stopping people in the parking lot/driveway or seeking them out - that would be rallying.

you said you got a puppy less than a week ago and didn't ask the parents. umm, don't you already have a dog? that makes a slight difference when someone that already has a dog gets a puppy. this is someone with no dogs who went straight to a baby eating breed. that along with the fact that clients have somehow relinquished any and all power and brain cells they once had changes the game.

if you agree she's a fool for doing it why not just agree she's a fool for doing it! you're like i wouldn't put up with parents confronting me about a decision blah blah. umm, hopefully you wouldn't make such an idiotic decision and if you did have several parents questioning something you would have enough sense to know that there must be a problem.

nan - friends team up to try and get things changed all the time. really, you of all people should know this.

[laundrymom]

My advice,.. =-)

ok, honest question here, I skimmed through most responses I admit but I read you love the daycare, you love her program, her devotion to the kids, everything except for the puppy that is a part pit? part Weim,.. umm,.. sp? ,.. you know the beautiful sesame street dog, .

so you love her and how she is helping to raise your daighters,.. you love her environment and her attention to her business,.. but you are angry that her new puppy that she is raising in probably the same manner as she does your kids, and who you have seen NO aggression in whatsoever, may turn on your kids and bite them even though she is keeping the dog seperate from the daycare? I would honestly go to her, say,.. hey I love your place, I love the care you provide, but the new pup concerns me,.. Im afriad of pit bulls. I was not aware that you were considering a dog let alone this particular mix of breeds. Why did you choose "this" dog, and how can you assure me that it will be a safe playmate for my children? I have to be honest with you, I am uncomfortable with the idea of a pitbull mix, no matter the mix in a childcare home and am wanting you to know that I am leaning towards looking for alternative care. While I respect your choice to have a dog, and have this dog, you must respect my choice to have childcare without one. I wanted you to know up front how I feel to minimize any hard feelings, or surprises that may come about. I also want you to be prepared in case other parents react the same way. I respect you as a provider and want to make sure you are aware of my feelings.

[nannyde]

i know he only mentioned one friend, but what i meant, and what he just confirmed is that he could very well know other parents personally also. talking to your friends about something going on at daycare that concerns your children is different than "rallying clients." if he were stopping people in the parking lot/driveway or seeking them out - that would be rallying.

you said you got a puppy less than a week ago and didn't ask the parents. umm, don't you already have a dog? that makes a slight difference when someone that already has a dog gets a puppy. this is someone with no dogs who went straight to a baby eating breed. that along with the fact that clients have somehow relinquished any and all power and brain cells they once had changes the game.

if you agree she's a fool for doing it why not just agree she's a fool for doing it! you're like i wouldn't put up with parents confronting me about a decision blah blah. umm, hopefully you wouldn't make such an idiotic decision and if you did have several parents questioning something you would have enough sense to know that there must be a problem.

nan - friends team up to try and get things changed all the time. really, you of all people should know this.

I sure the heck wouldn't get a pit bull. They are very scary to me and I know I couldn't handle that. They are cute puppies tho. I would like to snuggle one of them today.

The point I'm making is that the power the parent has is only his power. He shouldn't be considering discussing it with her as a group. He needs to take his concern to her and discuss it only with her. He shouldn't enlist the other clients. It's his kid and his money so he has that power to let her know what he wants. If she says she wants to keep the puppy then he needs to ease on down the road.

I can see his friends talking about it with him but to even bring it up to the other day care clients would really turn me off.

Something about this doesn't seem right and I can't put my finger on it. I'm not understanding the value of the provider thing. It just seems odd that on day one of seeing the puppy that he wouldn't just say "NO pitt bull dogs at my kids day care period". NOT having it. I don't want my kid and my new baby on the same property as a pit bull.

What gives that he can't just SAY it to them? The only thing that would make a parent not say something like that... to me... is money.

I guess I just don't see how this is so delicate. He's one of a zillion people who are afraid of pit bulls mixed with babies. It's not that big of a deal to bring it up. Just bring it up and tell her how you feel.

[Unregistered]

Just my thoughts...I have dogs and I have never considered asking a daycare parent first. However, I am not an idiot and I do realize that:

a) some parents may choose not to come here because I have dogs and
b) BREED MATTERS.

When we got our indoor dogs I did considerable research to get the "right" daycare dog. No shedding, sturdy, good with kids...I have Teddy Bear dogs (Bicon x Shih Tzu cross). When I introduced the puppy (and later, the 2nd puppy) I was straightforward with the parents regarding the dogs strenghts and how it would be daycare trained.

In my opinion, it is obvious that she knows people might be upset because she went out of her way not to be clear on the breed. She is probably also aware that some people may leave because of it, and has decided to go ahead with it anyway. That is her decision, and while none of us may agree with it from a business standpoint, it is her business and she is free to screw it up as she sees fit.

That said, if I ever found out my parents were getting together to "discuss concerns" behind my back, legitimately or not, that would be the end of whomever I determined the ring leader to be. Why? Well, lets see...it worked on the dog so whats not to say that next month you are all concerned that she is closed on Christmas Eve or the month after that you are all concerned about the menu plan?

Uhhh NO...you gotta problem, to talk to ME. After all, how happy would you be if, I as a concerned daycare provider, gathered the parents up to discuss a legitimate concern regarding your child... and then as a group we confronted you? Would you feel defensive? Attacked? Your privacy violated? Perhaps a betrayal of the relationship? My guess is YES and thats a two way street. Tread carefully if you choose to go that route.

3kidsmom

[Unregistered]

Just my opinion...

I am the type of person that doesn't like to feel like I'm being pushed around by anyone. I would not take being ambushed by the parents of my daycare kids well at all. If I am approached respectfully by parents, then I am much more receptive. I'm always willing to hear parents out and I've been lucky enough to feel comfortable discussing issues that have come up with the parents, too.

OP, if you were a parent of a child in my care and you decided to rally the other parents to force me to change the way that I do things, then you would be packing your things and leaving that day. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a parent with a child in my care if I knew that any time that the going got tough, the parent would form an alliance with other parents to make me bend to their will.

It's all a matter of the way that a person is approached.

[MrSint]

There are a number of delicate issues at hand here. First, people can get very defensive should they perceive their judgement or rights being called into question as a business owner - especially where the safety of children is concerned. Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to provide a more apt case in point than your responses thus far. So if not handled properly, I could find myself suddenly without ANY daycare - and that'd be a problem. Secondly, this is where my child spends her days - and perhaps my newbord daughter in a few months. Switching daycares is not like buying a bag of Doritos, it's a delicate matter indeed. I'll certainly bring it up to her - in a diplomatic way a a previous poster graciously illustrated (thanks btw) - but if it turns out the other parents also share those same concerns & can relay them as well - then I'm not just an isolated case, but perhaps representative of a good number of current and/or potential clients - in which case she may decide - as you stated yourself - that this was an ill fated decision on her part.

[QualiTcare]

I sure the heck wouldn't get a pit bull. They are very scary to me and I know I couldn't handle that. They are cute puppies tho. I would like to snuggle one of them today.

The point I'm making is that the power the parent has is only his power. He shouldn't be considering discussing it with her as a group. He needs to take his concern to her and discuss it only with her. He shouldn't enlist the other clients. It's his kid and his money so he has that power to let her know what he wants. If she says she wants to keep the puppy then he needs to ease on down the road.

I can see his friends talking about it with him but to even bring it up to the other day care clients would really turn me off.

Something about this doesn't seem right and I can't put my finger on it. I'm not understanding the value of the provider thing. It just seems odd that on day one of seeing the puppy that he wouldn't just say "NO pitt bull dogs at my kids day care period". NOT having it. I don't want my kid and my new baby on the same property as a pit bull.

What gives that he can't just SAY it to them? The only thing that would make a parent not say something like that... to me... is money.

I guess I just don't see how this is so delicate. He's one of a zillion people who are afraid of pit bulls mixed with babies. It's not that big of a deal to bring it up. Just bring it up and tell her how you feel.

i agree. if it were me or you, we'd probably have just said something the minute we saw the dog - but obviously you and i have no problems saying what we think. some people do.

i think the idea of "rallying the parents" is being taken the wrong way.

i was friends with parents at my kid's daycare. we hung out, went out to eat, went to each other's homes for cookouts, etc. we went to school together since elementary and then our children were friends. talking about something with your friends that bothers you about the daycare and then approaching the provider individually is still being united, but not confronting as a group.

for example, my daughter had mentioned that her teacher was mean during naptime and would cover the kid's heads with a blanket (not hers, but others). yes, i understand you have to be strict at naptime, but i worked there and i witnessed her being MEAN and covering heads - not just strict. one of my friends whose child was in that class brought it up to me and said she was going to say something to the director. her sister (and another friend of mine) had already said something to her bc her child was in that class also. i said something not only bc my child was in that class, but bc i was an employee who had actually witnessed it. it would've been easy to shrug off one parent and take the teacher's word, but it's not easy to shrug it off as an exaggerating child when there are 3 parents and one of them has seen it in action. as i said, there is power in numbers. there was no ring leader - just friends who all felt the same way.

i do think he should just say something (and probably have another provider lined up when he does) but i'm not him.

question: considering that this provider who had no pets when the child started not only got a pet, but a dog known to be aggressive, would you still think he owed her 2 weeks notice/pay?

i don't. i think she should've given the parents two weeks notice before bringing the dog in so they could decide to stay or not if she expected to be given the same courtesy. notice isn't required if there is a safety concern and he obviously feels that there is.

however, mr sint, it has been a week since you posted this thread. if you feel she's in danger, isn't it time to do something?

[nannyde]

i agree. if it were me or you, we'd probably have just said something the minute we saw the dog - but obviously you and i have no problems saying what we think. some people do.

i think the idea of "rallying the parents" is being taken the wrong way.

i was friends with parents at my kid's daycare. we hung out, went out to eat, went to each other's homes for cookouts, etc. we went to school together since elementary and then our children were friends. talking about something with your friends that bothers you about the daycare and then approaching the provider individually is still being united, but not confronting as a group.

for example, my daughter had mentioned that her teacher was mean during naptime and would cover the kid's heads with a blanket (not hers, but others). yes, i understand you have to be strict at naptime, but i worked there and i witnessed her being MEAN and covering heads - not just strict. one of my friends whose child was in that class brought it up to me and said she was going to say something to the director. her sister (and another friend of mine) had already said something to her bc her child was in that class also. i said something not only bc my child was in that class, but bc i was an employee who had actually witnessed it. it would've been easy to shrug off one parent and take the teacher's word, but it's not easy to shrug it off as an exaggerating child when there are 3 parents and one of them has seen it in action. as i said, there is power in numbers. there was no ring leader - just friends who all felt the same way.

i do think he should just say something (and probably have another provider lined up when he does) but i'm not him.

question: considering that this provider who had no pets when the child started not only got a pet, but a dog known to be aggressive, would you still think he owed her 2 weeks notice/pay?

i don't. i think she should've given the parents two weeks notice before bringing the dog in so they could decide to stay or not if she expected to be given the same courtesy. notice isn't required if there is a safety concern and he obviously feels that there is.

however, mr sint, it has been a week since you posted this thread. if you feel she's in danger, isn't it time to do something?

The dog is still a puppy so I think notice should be given.

I think the day care center analogy is different. It is a public place where each kid may be one percent of the total income or a half percent of the total income. Having parents band together when they are one of MANY is very different than them banding together when they are a small group in the first place.

If I found out my parents were working together to work on me about something I would terminate. It would mean that the relationship I thought we had wasn't really there so caring for their kid in the future wouldn't be right for me.

[MrSint]

It's a small puppy at this point - I've got time before it gets to any dangerous size.

And to the other posters response, I would expect that if my daughter were doing something that posed a safety risk for other children - and the parents of the other children discussed this amongst themselves & with the DCP - then approached me about it - I would hope to have the maturity, rationality & compassion to appreciate why they had done so & take measures to help resolve the problem if possible. Sure, I supposed I could feel ganged up on, attacked, ambushed, etc... but I generally operate with a level head - that's just me - although experience has taught me that there are many people in this world who do not. As such, I often have to navigate carefully on certain matters so as not to set off the emotionally unstable among us which may negatively affect my wife and/or children.

[MrSint]

If I found out my parents were working together to work on me about something I would terminate. It would mean that the relationship I thought we had wasn't really there so caring for their kid in the future wouldn't be right for me.

And if I found out - and in our case, everybody WOULD find out - my DCP had terminated someone because they discussed safety concerns with other parents, I would terminate the DCP. In fact - if you could let me know if you happen to be located in IL perhaps we can make arrangements so as to make sure we avoid accidentally doing business together in the future.

[Blackcat31]

My advice,.. =-)

ok, honest question here, I skimmed through most responses I admit but I read you love the daycare, you love her program, her devotion to the kids, everything except for the puppy that is a part pit? part Weim,.. umm,.. sp? ,.. you know the beautiful sesame street dog, .

so you love her and how she is helping to raise your daighters,.. you love her environment and her attention to her business,.. but you are angry that her new puppy that she is raising in probably the same manner as she does your kids, and who you have seen NO aggression in whatsoever, may turn on your kids and bite them even though she is keeping the dog seperate from the daycare? I would honestly go to her, say,.. hey I love your place, I love the care you provide, but the new pup concerns me,.. Im afriad of pit bulls. I was not aware that you were considering a dog let alone this particular mix of breeds. Why did you choose "this" dog, and how can you assure me that it will be a safe playmate for my children? I have to be honest with you, I am uncomfortable with the idea of a pitbull mix, no matter the mix in a childcare home and am wanting you to know that I am leaning towards looking for alternative care. While I respect your choice to have a dog, and have this dog, you must respect my choice to have childcare without one. I wanted you to know up front how I feel to minimize any hard feelings, or surprises that may come about. I also want you to be prepared in case other parents react the same way. I respect you as a provider and want to make sure you are aware of my feelings.

35 posts later and this is exactly what should be said. Honesty and open communication between a provider and a parent (not group of them). If we all had the honesty and open communication laundrymom has suggested, most of us wouldn't be on this forum venting. I am the owner of a large breed dog with a bad reputation also (St. Bernard) and I personally wouldn't have gone out and got a dog without thinking about the big picture (i.e effects on business and family) but it is done and dog is there so the only logical next step would be open and honest communication between provider and parent. Provider can't fix, modify, ignore or hear complaints or comments until they are said to her and parent can't stay or go until they know where provider is coming from and what if anything she is going to do to address the issue. Dogs are dogs and kids are kids. BOTH are unpredictable in behavior NO MATTER how they are raised (or what breed they are).

[nannyde]

And if I found out - and in our case, everybody WOULD find out - my DCP had terminated someone because they discussed safety concerns with other parents, I would terminate the DCP. In fact - if you could let me know if you happen to be located in IL perhaps we can make arrangements so as to make sure we avoid accidentally doing business together in the future.

Oh not to worry. You would have to sit on a long wait list... get thru a gruelling three step five hour interview process... pay a fat amount of money upfront for two kids... and pay a princely sum for care as we aren't affordable.

I think we are both safe. ::

Seriously it's a BAD move to rally the other clients. If you have a good money gig going there I would just talk to her by yourself.