Homeschooling - German Police Storm Home, Take Children By Force

[Familycare71]

I love debating too
I also like learning...
I do support home schooling - for whatever reason. I did almost homeschool my oldest at one point because the school system was failing him. I am glad that I didn't have to tho :: I do agree that homeschooling is the best option if the parent is good at it!

I wonder if the German family has "warrants" out for them. I think of having the children removed (if it went down as reported) to be extreme and abusive.
If we decide they can no longer hide here I hope they have the opportunity to go somewhere in Europe where they will be safe.

[Lyss]

IMO I think the original article is misleading a bit. No where else can I find anything about the Obama administration (not a fan of BTW) being "unhappy" (or really involved personally) over this and saying that parents have no right to determine how their children are educated. The US is one of the top counties for homeschooling, obviously they do allow parents to do as the choose (within the laws obviously). This article also makes it sound as though this has just happened, not that it was back in 2006. Maybe I was reading it wrong, my phone had issues loading it.

IMO this has nothing to do with homeschooling rights of US citizens or laws. Just because its a right and legal here doesn't mean it has to be in every other country. It said this family has been cited and fined many times so I agree with the pp that said it wasn't like they suddenly, without warning, were harassed. I'm not saying I support what happened, I think the whole situation is ridiculous honestly, but they knew the laws and received warnings.

What its about it to me is asylum for one family who wants to homeschool. Honestly I think its a bit much, why can't they go through the normal immigration routes and avoid all this? From what I understand about asylum cases, the US only grants so many and honesty there are much more terrible things being done to people that not being able to homeschool.

I think homeschooling is great, I'm debating doing it when DD reaches SA but I don't think its worthy of asylum. I also wonder if there is more to this story as 2 articles made mention that they were also investigated in France by the french version of DHS

[Familycare71]

I agree with your overall point.
This is why I rarely watch or read most news. Everything is bias to one side or the other... So we, as Americans, rarely get just the facts. It is sad really.
And I agree another country should not have to allow home schooling.
I'm sure just like everything else it's a big political mess

[Laurel]

IMO I think the original article is misleading a bit. No where else can I find anything about Obama administration (not a fan of BTW) being "unhappy" (or really involved personally) and saying that parents have no right to determine how their children are educated. The US is one of the top counties for homeschooling, obviously they do allow parents to do as the chose (within the laws obviously). This article also makes it sound as though this has just happened, not that it was back in 2006. Maybe I was reading it wrong, my phone had issues loading it.

IMO this has nothing to do with homeschooling rights of US citizens or laws. Just because its a right and legal here doesn't mean it has to be in every other country.

What its about it asylum for one family who wants to homeschool. Honestly I think its a bit much, why can't they go through the normal immigration routes and avoid all this? From what I understand about asylum cases, the US only grants so many and honesty there are much more terrible things being done to people that not being able to homeschool.

I think homeschooling is great, I'm debating doing it when DD reaches SA but I don't think its worthy of asylum. I also wonder if there is more to this story as 2 articles made mention that they were also investigated in France by the french version of DHS

I agree. It seems a bit much to me too.

I had a rude awakening one time when I believed a newspaper article.

In our area there was a baby who died of SIDS while in a home daycare. Well a newspaper article said that the provider was watching too many children illegally. It doesn't seem like she did anything wrong as far as this particular baby though. It was his first day.

I wrote a letter to the editor wondering why parents who brought their children to her did so knowing she had so many. I wrote that they had to know when they saw all the children that something wasn't right. Well, that evening the dad of the baby who died called me regarding my letter. When I saw his last name on the caller I.D. I was very hesitant to answer but did. He was very nice but told me the REST of the story. It turns out she was hiding them when parents arrived. He was very nice and my heart was breaking for him.

From then on though, I never believed anything I read. Well I do a little but I try to read more than one source before I decide. I also notice inconsistencies like you do.

I read articles from the conservative paper, the liberal one and what I consider to be pretty objective which is ABC news. Even putting them all together, it seems there is more to this story than is reported. I saw no evidence that it had anything to do with the administration. In fact, one article said the administration said they wouldn't comment on this court case.

Laurel

[Familycare71]

I agree. It seems a bit much to me too.

I had a rude awakening one time when I believed a newspaper article.

In our area there was a baby who died of SIDS while in a home daycare. Well a newspaper article said that the provider was watching too many children illegally. It doesn't seem like she did anything wrong as far as this particular baby though. It was his first day.

I wrote a letter to the editor wondering why parents who brought their children to her did so knowing she had so many. I wrote that they had to know when they saw all the children that something wasn't right. Well, that evening the dad of the baby who died called me regarding my letter. When I saw his last name on the caller I.D. I was very hesitant to answer but did. He was very nice but told me the REST of the story. It turns out she was hiding them when parents arrived. He was very nice and my heart was breaking for him.

From then on though, I never believed anything I read. Well I do a little but I try to read more than one source before I decide. I also notice inconsistencies like you do.

I read articles from the conservative paper, the liberal one and what I consider to be pretty objective which is ABC news. Even putting them all together, it seems there is more to this story than is reported. I saw no evidence that it had anything to do with the administration. In fact, one article said the administration said they wouldn't comment on this court case.

Laurel

It is FRUSTRATING!!!! But good to know abc seems to be in the middle. I refuse to watch fox or NBC because they both admit to being bias! I don't want to hear what I want to hear... I want facts to form my own decision!

[Laurel]

I love debating too
I also like learning...
I do support home schooling - for whatever reason. I did almost homeschool my oldest at one point because the school system was failing him. I am glad that I didn't have to tho :: I do agree that homeschooling is the best option if the parent is good at it!

I wonder if the German family has "warrants" out for them. I think of having the children removed (if it went down as reported) to be extreme and abusive.
If we decide they can no longer hide here I hope they have the opportunity to go somewhere in Europe where they will be safe.

Well if they do have warrants this could be a whole different ball game. Then are we harboring fugitives? This is getting weirder and weirder. ::

From the articles I referenced I believe one did say that they had been warned and had been fined which is their protocol. One even said they had thousands in fines that had been accuring because they were fined per child per each day that the children weren't in school. Don't know what to believe but it appears they had been repeatedly told to send them to school and didn't. If that is true, what else were they to do?

Once when I was working as a sub secretary in an elementary school the police had to be called for a 6th grader. He was new to the school and kept running away. The teacher couldn't continually watch him and the other children too. After conferences with the most wonderful principal I have ever met (well besides our own elementary school's principal) the boy just continued to run out the classroom door that led to the outside. It was a safety issue for the boy and the students left alone if the teacher had to go chase him.

It was scary when I saw the cops try to talk to the boy and finally he had to wrestle him to the ground and cuff him....yes, a sixth grader who did not seem violent but wouldn't stop running.

In the German case, it seems like parents should be arrested if necessary but the children be left alone. It isn't their fault. The one article said the children were taken to school by the cops. Who knows what really happened though?

No matter what though it just doesn't seem to be a U.S. matter. It is a German matter. Just my opinion. We'll see what happens in court though I guess.

Laurel

[Laurel]

It is FRUSTRATING!!!! But good to know abc seems to be in the middle. I refuse to watch fox or NBC because they both admit to being bias! I don't want to hear what I want to hear... I want facts to form my own decision!

I used to belong to a political discussion (fighting? : forum. I found the best way to debate was to use completely unbiased sites if they were available. For example, when we were debating (arguing?) about censorship I referenced the library site (forget what that is called). If we were talking about something military, I would reference their official site. I tried to stay away from regular news sites if possible. If we were debating welfare issues I'd try to get real facts from the Dept. of Labor statistics, etc.

I don't do that anymore (debate politics). That was a waste of my precious time!

Laurel

[Familycare71]

I used to belong to a political discussion (fighting? : forum. I found the best way to debate was to use completely unbiased sites if they were available. For example, when we were debating (arguing?) about censorship I referenced the library site (forget what that is called). If we were talking about something military, I would reference their official site. I tried to stay away from regular news sites if possible. If we were debating welfare issues I'd try to get real facts from the Dept. of Labor statistics, etc.

I don't do that anymore (debate politics). That was a waste of my precious time!

Laurel

Yes- I find that with politics people stand where they stand. While I am generally more conservative I try to look at things on a case by case basis but it is harder and harder to do!
Basically I have come to the point where I don't trust most of what I read or hear. If it has to do with me directly I try to seek out the most unbiased info I can find.
I can't imagine being part of a political forum!! Give me over tired two year olds over that any day!::

[sleepinghart]

Personally I agree with the original ruling... I hope it works out for them.

~...Me too!

I love debating too
I also like learning...
I do support home schooling - for whatever reason. I did almost homeschool my oldest at one point because the school system was failing him. I am glad that I didn't have to tho :: I do agree that homeschooling is the best option if the parent is good at it!

I wonder if the German family has "warrants" out for them. I think of having the children removed (if it went down as reported) to be extreme and abusive.
If we decide they can no longer hide here I hope they have the opportunity to go somewhere in Europe where they will be safe.

I am not sure but I believe they do or are either facing threats of warrants, fines, etc. upon return(when I find definite info I'll link it for you). Also, they had had an incident where die polizei had picked up their children, without them knowing, and driven them to public school or something like that. If interested you should read about Melissa Busekros, a 15 year old German girl, who was committed to an insane asylum and put into foster care because she wanted to be homeschooled & Klaus & Kathrin Landahl and their 5 children who fled Germany(plus the long list of other similar incidents). Just the fact that such things can and have happened to homeschooling families there would be reason enough to cause me sure terror, but if I understood correctly, the Romeikes were already being harassed, bullied or what have you.

One of the things that really gets me with all this is that the Obama administration is pushing amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants yet we don't have room for this one German family who is here legally. Interestingly enough, the Tsarnaevs, the Boston marathon bombing Tsarnaevs, along with their family were granted US asylum(the reason they gave-- As ethnic Chechens they sought asylum from anti-Muslim persecution because of the war Russia had waged against Islamic militants in Chechnya)and their family has not been deported since. ...I don't know :confused:.

[Familycare71]

~...Me too!




I am not sure but I believe they do or are either facing threats of warrants, fines, etc. upon return(when I find definite info I'll link it for you). Also, they had had an incident where die polizei had picked up their children, without them knowing, and driven them to public school or something like that. If interested you should read about Melissa Busekros, a 15 year old German girl, who was committed to an insane asylum and put into foster care because she wanted to be homeschooled & Klaus & Kathrin Landahl and their 5 children who fled Germany(plus the long list of other similar incidents). Just the fact that such things can and have happened to homeschooling families there would be reason enough to cause me sure terror, but if I understood correctly, the Romeikes were already being harassed, bullied or what have you.

One of the things that really gets me with all this is that the Obama administration is pushing amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants yet we don't have room for this one German family who is here legally. Interestingly enough, the Tsarnaevs, the Boston marathon bombing Tsarnaevs, along with their family were granted US asylum(the reason they gave-- As ethnic Chechens they sought asylum from anti-Muslim persecution because of the war Russia had waged against Islamic militants in Chechnya)and their family has not been deported since. ...I don't know :confused:.

I would love to see links
I can't imagine they were granted asylum in the first place if there wasn't a threat beyond sending their children to school. And from what I read the fact that their children were removed the way they were is petrifying enough!
Yes I agree- the government needs to focus on all the illegal immigrants rather than this one family who was already approved to be here. No matter how one feels it should be dealt with it needs to be dealt with!
Yes- that whole bombing situation is scary!

[Michael]

I believe the original interpretation of Obama's position on homeschooling was from a far right website. That being said, I've extrapolated my views, from reading differing articles/blogs, that this administration prefers the government take the leading role of educating our children. While that in itself seems obvious, when you read between the lines you see this government fights against school vouchers (which empower parents and stimulates competition IMO) and support UN commissions on education which believe the government knows what's best for our children, and will enforce it. I am starting a poll asking those of us, Who Knows What's Best for our Children; parents/family or government.

Here are some tidbits from opposite viewpoints:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Barack_Obama's_position_on_homeschooling

President Obama supports the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the UN tribunal authorized to interpret and enforce the Children's Convention, sets forth an exhaustive index of children's rights, many at odds with the rights of parents. It has held, for instance, that Britain violated children's rights in Wales by allowing parents to withdraw their children from public school programs without first considering the children's wishes. In other words, the United Nations has determined that the government will decide what is best for our children.

http://voices.yahoo.com/does-barack-obama-support-homeschool-those-907297.html

A later quote said to be from Mr. Obama's book, says that we should go by "Lincoln's simple maxim: that we will do collectively, through our government, only those things we cannot do as well or at all individually and privately. In other words, we should be guided by what works."
Based on those quotes, assuming they are, in fact, from Barack's book, it does seem that he may well support the choice to school children at home.

[Michael]

Whomever voted against school vouchers, I would like to know the reasoning? I can't think of why it would be a bad idea.

[sleepinghart]

I would love to see links
I can't imagine they were granted asylum in the first place if there wasn't a threat beyond sending their children to school. And from what I read the fact that their children were removed the way they were is petrifying enough!
Yes I agree- the government needs to focus on all the illegal immigrants rather than this one family who was already approved to be here. No matter how one feels it should be dealt with it needs to be dealt with!
Yes- that whole bombing situation is scary!

"Romeike, his wife Hannelore, and their children live in a modest duplex about 40 miles northeast of Knoxville while they seek political asylum here. They say they were persecuted for their evangelical Christian beliefs and homeschooling their children in Germany, where school attendance is compulsory.


When the Romeikes wouldn't comply with repeated orders to send the children to school, police came to their home one October morning in 2006 and took the children, crying and upset, to school.


"We tried not to open the door, but they (police) kept ringing the doorbell for 15 or 20 minutes," Romeike said. "They called us by phone and spoke on the answering machine and said they would knock open the door if we didn't open it. So I opened it."


Romeike, like many conservative parents in the U.S., said he wanted to teach his own children because his children's German school textbooks contained language and ideas that conflicted with his family's values.


He had to pay fines equivalent to hundreds of dollars for his decision, and he's afraid that if he returns to Germany, police will arrest him and government authorities will take away his children, who range in age from 11 to 3".


~Respectfully Snipped From & Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...#ixzz2dl8KtSlL




“This is not over yet,” said Michael Farris, founder and chairman of HSLDA. “We are taking this case to the Supreme Court because we firmly believe that this family deserves the freedom that this country was founded on. Despite Friday’s order, the Sixth Circuit’s opinion contains two clear errors: First, they wholly ignored Germany’s proclamation that a central reason for banning homeschooling is to suppress religious minorities. Second, the Sixth Circuit erred when it failed to address the claim that parental rights are so fundamental that no government can deny parents the right to choose an alternative to the public schools.”

The Romeike family faces thousands of dollars in fines and possible jail time if they return to Germany. HSLDA contends that this is grounds for a well-founded fear of persecution that would grant them asylum under U.S. law. The Justice Department, however, claims that the Romeikes are being punished under a generally applicable law, and the Sixth Circuit agreed".

~Respectfully Snipped From:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2013/201307150.asp

~Hi Familycare71! Were these all of the links you were looking for, or did you want some on the other cases I mentioned too? If so, just let me know and I'll be glad to get you what you need .

(Familycare71 quote)"I can't imagine they were granted asylum in the first place if there wasn't a threat beyond sending their children to school""(end quote)

~Yep. That original ruling says a whole lot about this case period and point blank, doesn't it.

(Familycare71 quote)"Yes I agree- the government needs to focus on all the illegal immigrants rather than this one family who was already approved to be here. No matter how one feels it should be dealt with it needs to be dealt with!" (end quote)

~...Yes, exactly! It's crazy...It just doesn't make any sense....to me anyway (shrugs).

[sleepinghart]

I believe the original interpretation of Obama's position on homeschooling was from a far right website. That being said, I've extrapolated my views, from reading differing articles/blogs, that this administration prefers the government take the leading role of educating our children. While that in itself seems obvious, when you read between the lines you see this government fights against school vouchers (which empower parents and stimulates competition IMO) and support UN commissions on education which believe the government knows what's best for our children, and will enforce it. I am starting a poll asking those of us, Who Knows What's Best for our Children; parents/family or government.

Here are some tidbits from opposite viewpoints:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Barack_Obama's_position_on_homeschooling

President Obama supports the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the UN tribunal authorized to interpret and enforce the Children's Convention, sets forth an exhaustive index of children's rights, many at odds with the rights of parents. It has held, for instance, that Britain violated children's rights in Wales by allowing parents to withdraw their children from public school programs without first considering the children's wishes. In other words, the United Nations has determined that the government will decide what is best for our children.

http://voices.yahoo.com/does-barack-obama-support-homeschool-those-907297.html

A later quote said to be from Mr. Obama's book, says that we should go by "Lincoln's simple maxim: that we will do collectively, through our government, only those things we cannot do as well or at all individually and privately. In other words, we should be guided by what works."
Based on those quotes, assuming they are, in fact, from Barack's book, it does seem that he may well support the choice to school children at home.

~With regard to the part of your post I bolded above, you've absolutely said a mouthful, if not all. Not only that, but you've hit on another very important point.....The reading between the lines thing, and that is an absolutely crucial thing to do nowdays.


~ETA~ ...Voted in the poll btw .

[Laurel]

Yes I agree- the government needs to focus on all the illegal immigrants rather than this one family who was already approved to be here. No matter how one feels it should be dealt with it needs to be dealt with!"

~...Yes, exactly! It's crazy...It just doesn't make any sense....to me anyway (shrugs)

I don't get the above statements. Do you mean that this case should be ignored because there are cases of illegal immigrants pending or there are illegals who haven't been dealt with in the system? Couldn't the government be doing both simultaneously (which I think they are)?

It is two different situations. There is a national debate, as well as in Congress about illegal immigrants and what to do about it, it has been going on forever it seems. As far as I know, there has been no conclusion yet but I'm not a news junkie anymore like I used to be so there could be some progress.

Then this Romeike case which is a case of asylum not of illegal immigrants. I don't get how the two are connected.

Laurel