Homeschooling - German Police Storm Home, Take Children By Force

[Michael]

This is from a conservative website. The article hit on some things that are worrisome to those that homeschool. Especially this:

This case demonstrates conclusively why the Romeike asylum case is so important. Families in Germany need a safe place where they can educate their children in peace.” The Romeike case has been submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2010, an immigration judge granted asylum in the U.S. to the family, which fled Germany because their children were forced to go to public schools.

The Obama administration, unhappy with the outcome, appealed and obtained an order from a higher court that the family must return to Germany. The Obama administration has argued in court parents essentially have no right to determine how and what their children are taught, leaving the authority with the government.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-storm-homeschool-class-take-children-by-force/#uUjwrGdtvxVarUtQ.99

[sleepinghart]

This is from a conservative website. The article hit on some things that are worrisome to those that homeschool. Especially this:

This case demonstrates conclusively why the Romeike asylum case is so important. Families in Germany need a safe place where they can educate their children in peace.” The Romeike case has been submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2010, an immigration judge granted asylum in the U.S. to the family, which fled Germany because their children were forced to go to public schools.

The Obama administration, unhappy with the outcome, appealed and obtained an order from a higher court that the family must return to Germany. The Obama administration has argued in court parents essentially have no right to determine how and what their children are taught, leaving the authority with the government.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-st...GdtvxVarUtQ.99

"The Obama administration, unhappy with the outcome, appealed and obtained an order from a higher court that the family must return to Germany. The Obama administration has argued in court parents essentially have no right to determine how and what their children are taught, leaving the authority with the government"

~...Can't say I'm shocked but what a darn shame!! I remember hearing about this German family, the Romeike case, when it first made headlines so I'm glad for an update of any kind though I wish it were better news. Thanks for posting Michael!

[Familycare71]

What a scary ruling to have in our laws!! If that isn't setting up for a government controlled country I don't know what is!!
They are disarming us, taking away our parenting rights (of course most parents see pre-k as free daycare!), controlling our health care and allowing the ability to support ourselves to dwindle!
I wish people would look beyond their own comfort and see the big picture of what is happening all around us no matter what party or beliefs each of us has!!

[Laurel]

An opposing viewpoint.

I had never heard of this case so Googled it to see if I could find more. I have never seen this site or blog before but it makes some points that seem to make sense to me. I'm not sure what HSLDA is but I assume from this article that is must be an American homeschooling organization.

Nearer to the end of this blog entry there is some conjecture and opinions given but it explains some of the legalities and is worth it to read. The comments people made after the article are interesting as well.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/why-hslda-is-wrong-about-romeike-v-holder.html

Laurel

[Familycare71]

An opposing viewpoint.

I had never heard of this case so Googled it to see if I could find more. I have never seen this site or blog before but it makes some points that seem to make sense to me. I'm not sure what HSLDA is but I assume from this article that is must be an American homeschooling organization.

Nearer to the end of this blog entry there is some conjecture and opinions given but it explains some of the legalities and is worth it to read. The comments people made after the article are interesting as well.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/why-hslda-is-wrong-about-romeike-v-holder.html

Laurel

I did read it... I'm still scared

[Laurel]

I did read it... I'm still scared

I just read an article at abc news on this. It just seems like a case of a family not agreeing with their country's laws so seeking asylum here but so far our courts see no grounds for their asylum according to our laws regarding this. They are going to ask the Supreme Court to hear the case so we'll see I guess.

Probably by the time they get all the court stuff out of the way the kids will be grown. They've already lived here 3 years I think the article said and are home schooling in Tennessee.

Laurel

[Familycare71]

I just read an article at abc news on this. It just seems like a case of a family not agreeing with their country's laws so seeking asylum here but so far our courts see no grounds for their asylum according to our laws regarding this. They are going to ask the Supreme Court to hear the case so we'll see I guess.

Probably by the time they get all the court stuff out of the way the kids will be grown. They've already lived here 3 years I think the article said and are home schooling in Tennessee.

Laurel

Yes- they were already grated asylum so why the change now?? My opinion is this has nothing to do with the family!
And while I understand they cannot be granted asylum based on not being allowed to home school I would think it took it to a whole other level when their home was invaded and their children were removed and they were not told where they were or if they would see them again.

[Laurel]

Yes- they were already grated asylum so why the change now?? My opinion is this has nothing to do with the family!
And while I understand they cannot be granted asylum based on not being allowed to home school I would think it took it to a whole other level when their home was invaded and their children were removed and they were not told where they were or if they would see them again.

I'm not a lawyer but I imagine they are following the law and court system on this case just like any other.

On further reading though it has always been the law in Germany that home schooling was not allowed. This family had to know this. Some articles say they were given fines, warnings, etc. It wasn't just like one day they just swooped down on them out of the blue. This family was knowingly breaking the law. What did they expect would happen? It could be said that they were responsible for putting their children through this when they decided to break the law. They knew what would happen and did it anyway. I can't feel too sorry for them but I do feel sorry for the children.

I am not making any judgment on Germany's law but these people have some responsibility as well. If they had the means to re-locate (which they obviously did as they came to the U.S.) then why not just legally re-locate somewhere that allowed homeschooling?

I just don't feel that sorry for them. I do think that homeschooling should be allowed but that is just my opinion. I can't impose it on Germany or anyone else.

It is unfortunate but they are German citizens and this is between them and their country.

I guess we'll see what the Supreme Courts say though.

Laurel

[Familycare71]

I'm not a lawyer but I imagine they are following the law and court system on this case just like any other.

On further reading though it has always been the law in Germany that home schooling was not allowed. This family had to know this. Some articles say they were given fines, warnings, etc. It wasn't just like one day they just swooped down on them out of the blue. This family was knowingly breaking the law. What did they expect would happen? It could be said that they were responsible for putting their children through this when they decided to break the law. They knew what would happen and did it anyway. I can't feel too sorry for them but I do feel sorry for the children.

I am not making any judgment on Germany's law but these people have some responsibility as well. If they had the means to re-locate (which they obviously did as they came to the U.S.) then why not just legally re-locate somewhere that allowed homeschooling?

I just don't feel that sorry for them. I do think that homeschooling should be allowed but that is just my opinion. I can't impose it on Germany or anyone else.

It is unfortunate but they are German citizens and this is between them and their country.

I guess we'll see what the Supreme Courts say though.

Laurel

I do understand that it was against the law in Germany and that is Germany's right. I agree.
I didn't see anything (I've only read two articles) that said they received warnings- yes I agree they were most likely knowingly breaking the law.
I am under the assumption that this home schooling group most likely paid their way to the US and are providing their legal fees. I wouldn't assume they had the funds to move but if they did that would have been a better choice.
I do wonder why the verdict was re-assessed and changed.
Yes- it will be interesting to see what the SC says about the situation
I just feel like because the battle is happening here it will have more effect on our future laws than I would personally like.

[sleepinghart]

If I'm not mistaken on any of this, US Asylum had already been granted to the Romeikes. In January of 2010, U.S. immigration judge, Lawrence O. Burman, granted asylum in the United States to the Romeikes. Two months later ICE appealed the decision and so here we are I guess.

The U.S. law of asylum allows a refugee to stay in the United States if they can show that they are being persecuted for one of several specific reasons. Among these are persecution for religious reasons & persecution of a particular social group.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=f39d3e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f39d3e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

~Burman on his decision-

Judge Burman observed that the rights being denied the Romeikes were “basic human rights that no country has a right to violate.” In addition, the judge expressed concern that while Germany is a democratic country and is an ally of the United States, this particular policy of persecuting homeschoolers is “repellent to everything we believe in as Americans.”

He had determined that the German state’s policy of imposing heavy fines, the loss of custody of children, and possible criminal prosecution over homeschooling amounted to persecution.


...On Germany's justification of their homeschool ban-

"In our increasingly multicultural society school is the place for a peaceful dialogue between different opinions, values, religions and ideologies"

"It is a training ground for social tolerance. Therefore home-schooling is not an option for Germany." Berlin's education minister, Juergen Zoellner



~Sweden's reasons-

"Children have the right to be taught by professional teachers, and the teaching should be objective and based on science". -Bertil Ostberg

"Schools should be a meeting place where tolerance and social values are communicated".

[Familycare71]

If I'm not mistaken on any of this, US Asylum had already been granted to the Romeikes. In January of 2010, U.S. immigration judge, Lawrence O. Burman, granted asylum in the United States to the Romeikes. Two months later ICE appealed the decision and so here we are I guess.

The U.S. law of asylum allows a refugee to stay in the United States if they can show that they are being persecuted for one of several specific reasons. Among these are persecution for religious reasons & persecution of a particular social group.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=f39d3e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f39d3e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

~Burman on his decision-

Judge Burman observed that the rights being denied the Romeikes were “basic human rights that no country has a right to violate.” In addition, the judge expressed concern that while Germany is a democratic country and is an ally of the United States, this particular policy of persecuting homeschoolers is “repellent to everything we believe in as Americans.”

He had determined that the German state’s policy of imposing heavy fines, the loss of custody of children, and possible criminal prosecution over homeschooling amounted to persecution.


...On Germany's justification of their homeschool ban-

"In our increasingly multicultural society school is the place for a peaceful dialogue between different opinions, values, religions and ideologies"

"It is a training ground for social tolerance. Therefore home-schooling is not an option for Germany." Berlin's education minister, Juergen Zoellner



~Sweden's reasons-

"Children have the right to be taught by professional teachers, and the teaching should be objective and based on science". -Bertil Ostberg

"Schools should be a meeting place where tolerance and social values are communicated".

Personally I agree with the original ruling... I hope it works out for them.

[Laurel]

I do understand that it was against the law in Germany and that is Germany's right. I agree.
I didn't see anything (I've only read two articles) that said they received warnings- yes I agree they were most likely knowingly breaking the law.
I am under the assumption that this home schooling group most likely paid their way to the US and are providing their legal fees. I wouldn't assume they had the funds to move but if they did that would have been a better choice.
I do wonder why the verdict was re-assessed and changed.
Yes- it will be interesting to see what the SC says about the situation
I just feel like because the battle is happening here it will have more effect on our future laws than I would personally like.

I wonder if the Supreme Court will even take the case.

What effect on our future laws do you mean? Do you mean about home schooling or asylum issues?

I think that home schooling is a state issue and the asylum issue is a federal issue. Not sure and not sure how that all works.

Laurel

[Laurel]

The articles I read:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/home-schooling-german-family-fights-deportation/story?id=18842383#1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/16/german-christian-home-schooling-romeike-family-loses-us-asylum-bid_n_3283575.html

For anyone who is interested.

Laurel

P.S. Edited to add one more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511825,00.html

[Familycare71]

I wonder if the Supreme Court will even take the case.

What effect on our future laws do you mean? Do you mean about home schooling or asylum issues?

I think that home schooling is a state issue and the asylum issue is a federal issue. Not sure and not sure how that all works.

Laurel

Home schooling mostly... My understanding is once we have something "in the books" then other rulings can and are based off those. So if we have US courts ruling that schooling is not a matter of parental choice but government choice I worry that can be used here to change what is acceptable and allowed. To me the law in Germany is a scary one!
But it is completely possible that my parents have just made me say to paranoid politically! ::

[Laurel]

Home schooling mostly... My understanding is once we have something "in the books" then other rulings can and are based off those. So if we have US courts ruling that schooling is not a matter of parental choice but government choice I worry that can be used here to change what is acceptable and allowed. To me the law in Germany is a scary one!
But it is completely possible that my parents have just made me say to paranoid politically! ::

Oh now I understand what you mean. I don't think you'd have to worry about that. I really don't know a lot about home schooling here but it is pretty well established in our country. I also don't think it is a statement about education if they are sent back. It is a statement about if you don't like your country's laws then can you come to the U.S. to avoid them? In some cases, of course. In other cases, not so much. This doesn't seem to be a case where they are in grave danger so need to seek asylum to me.

Way back when my adult children were little I was considering home schooling. Not because of any religious reasons as I am not religious. We were moving and I didn't know how good the schools were. At that time in Ohio where I lived I was told I'd have to be a certified teacher to do it. I researched it a little and home schoolers were fighting to have it and I didn't think it was worth the bother. Then a few years later I was subbing for the school secretary and the principal told me a parent would be stopping to pick up some books for her home schooling student. So by then, public schools were mandated to supply the books which I think is only fair because home schooling parents are also paying their taxes.

My neighbor was home schooled here in Florida for several years and she helped me in my childcare also. It was not for religious reasons either. She was falling behind in school and they tried private school and that wasn't working either. Her parents worked with her and got her from being behind to a grade ahead. Now she is a teacher! I fully support home schooling because I think nothing beats one on one as far as academics.

I feel for the German parents but I just wonder if this is a legitimate reason for asylum.

Well it makes for a nice discussion anyway. I love debating.

Laurel