Making A Parent Pay For "Damage"

[craftymissbeth]

She wants side by side care Shug. You don't think that should be paid for? The kid is not a special needs child as of now. Just a flagged kid going in prek as a peer to special needs kids. As parent discussed, they are having difficulties at hoe and she sympathizes with the provider. She KNOWS the kid has poor behavior and wants special one to one side by side.

Why shouldn't she put her money behind that want?

I agree that if you need special you should pay for it, but at the same time the parent's rate isn't in question here. If the provider felt she needed to be compensated for any extra she was providing, then she should have stepped up and requested it.



With that said, though, the provider had no business sticking a child in a bedroom alone... especially not to discipline them!

[JoseyJo]

I totally agree that the provider was wrong in putting the child in a room alone, for any reason. Sounds like she was at her wits end.

That being said it also sounds like she wasn't given enough strategies to work with.

I'm sorry, but "finding her currency" sounds ridiculous to me! In my experience to a strong willed child there is no currency ever more important than being in charge and winning the battle. There has to be an enforceable consequence to every inappropriate action.

Not saying that every child is the same, but every child should have to follow the same rules while in group care. And you should totally have to pay for it if you want side by side or "special"!!!

[daycarediva]

I said before that the preschool is both special needs as well as peer students. She was initially registered as a peer student since it is at our neighborhood school. At her intake assessment (for all students), they flagged her file for followup with more detailed assessments. Right now it's the fastest way to work towards figuring out what's going on.

I also want to say that we do not experience the same behavior at home that the provider reported from daycare. That made it hard to figure out how to help. We also have more tools available to us. Like, I can remove toys from being able to be played with if she refuses to clean them up which I understand doesn't work in a group setting where all the kids want/need to play.

I'm also in Canada where there are hoops to jump through. I can't simple go get a diagnosis. We are playing by the rules and working quickly. It's been 6 months since things started. Visits to the doctor were met with, "It's likely a phase, let's wait and see" since she was just 3. She will be evaluated in September (probably the 1st month since her file has been flagged and she will be in the 1st set of assessments) and we will move from there.

There are always hoops to jump through. ALWAYS. I paid for a private developmental specialist out of pocket when there was a waiting list, I also paid for therapies out of pocket until my DS was able to be enrolled in special needs preschool as there was a waiting list. There is NO excuse to just leave your 'special needs' child with a provider who cannot handle her and NOT follow through with diagnosis and therapy. No excuse at ALL.

Also, from a providers prospective, she probably thought the special needs was crap and that you were just looking for an excuse for her behavior.

[daycarediva]

I wish I could figure out how to get on the “on the spectrum" money wagon. It's the hottest ticket in town. Often it means the kid has terrible behavior but is gifted.

It won't be long before on the spectrum is so expensive that it changes back to just poor behavior.

I have had a few kids in my care who were terribly behaved and the parents blame a disorder----not lack of discipline and parenting. Even WITH the disorder there isn't an excuse, IMHO.

[craftymissbeth]

I just went over this whole situation with my sister who is not a daycare provider and who has her children in an in home daycare (not mine because I don't take family). Anyhoo, this is her take...


Yes, it's wrong to put a child in a room alone with the door shut, but if that provider was frustrated enough to feel that she could potentially injure the child and needed to cool off herself, then it could have been for the best that she put her in the room. Of course the provider would never admit to getting to that point of frustration, but it's a possibility.

[Greenplasticwateringcans]

I just went over this whole situation with my sister who is not a daycare provider and who has her children in an in home daycare (not mine because I don't take family). Anyhoo, this is her take...


Yes, it's wrong to put a child in a room alone with the door shut, but if that provider was frustrated enough to feel that she could potentially injure the child and needed to cool off herself, then it could have been for the best that she put her in the room. Of course the provider would never admit to getting to that point of frustration, but it's a possibility.

That's pretty much what I was thinking could have happened too. Not saying what she did was okay but sometimes it's better then the alternative thoughts....

[youretooloud]

I dont use time outs at all. I find it to be ineffective and have better results with redirection and discussion. For the younger kids, i simply remove the object or activity that is causing issues and make sure our daily routines are consistent.

Discipline needs to be individualized for each child and once your provider found that placing your DD on a step was ineffective, she should have strategized with you about what methods would have been more successful inmodifying your child's behavior.

Me too!

[daycare]

As provider, I wouldn't expect you to pay, and your child should not have been placed alone in a room for even one minute.

That being said, as a parent, I have to disagree with your "approach" to "discipline".

Your child KNOWS that she has control because she never expereinces any "negative" consequesnces for her behavior. She throws screaming fits and DEMANDS to have her way because you "know her currency" but it leaves the provider very little to work with. I could be wrong, but It also seems as though you are creating a "special need" for her so that her behavior will be acceptable in group care. I have actually had a couple of parents do that in the past here at my program. Their children were FINE here, with me. BUT, at home, not so much. SO, they went to every single place they could find until they got a diagnosis that got them the free, special needs care that they wanted for their children. Their children were perfectly capable of being in group care with typically developing children, the parents simply could not figure out why they didn't behave for THEM, so they gave it a name.

Please, do your child a favor and give her REAL consequences for her behavior. Simply removing a toy that she isn't using correctly while allowing her to continue playing with others lets her know that she is the one in control. Sure, this is effective some time....but if that is ALL you do ALL the time, well, she knows It is truly a real disservice to your child....she needs more firm, clear boundaries.

BTW....I don't say these things lightly. I don't use time out, but I certainly WILL NOT allow a child to tantrum and be out of control on my watch. Your child needs a firm, loving provider who COMMANDS RESPECT, while giving respect back for appropriate behavior.

I agree .... I have worked with many of kids that sound similar to this child.

I didnt get to read everything but have you thought about the power of choice? Giving options? I find this to be very effective for children who are very strong willed.

[cheerfuldom]

mmmm....I am seeing some odd things here that have me thinking something is not quite right....you say she is a challenge at home in one post but in the next, you say you don't see the behaviors that the DCP is seeing....am I wrong?

Either way, I would go by what your contract says. If it says no refunds are made after a payment is made, you will not be able to get that last weeks worth of payment back. If it says that you pay for damaged items, you should pay for the mattress. If you feel strongly that the timeout was outside of the agreed upon discipline plan, then you can refuse the mattress pay and fight it in court should she try to get you to pay damages (which I doubt she would). Is she licensed? If you feel that the timeout was against licensing policies (the fact that a 3 yo was shut in a room alone) then please report her and let licensing decide.

no matter what happens, please keep all future teachers and providers well aware of your daughter's challenges! It sounds like the provider was really in over her head here and it was best to just go your separate ways anyway.

[Meyou]

I said before that the preschool is both special needs as well as peer students. She was initially registered as a peer student since it is at our neighborhood school. At her intake assessment (for all students), they flagged her file for followup with more detailed assessments. Right now it's the fastest way to work towards figuring out what's going on.

I also want to say that we do not experience the same behavior at home that the provider reported from daycare. That made it hard to figure out how to help. We also have more tools available to us. Like, I can remove toys from being able to be played with if she refuses to clean them up which I understand doesn't work in a group setting where all the kids want/need to play.

I'm also in Canada where there are hoops to jump through. I can't simple go get a diagnosis. We are playing by the rules and working quickly. It's been 6 months since things started. Visits to the doctor were met with, "It's likely a phase, let's wait and see" since she was just 3. She will be evaluated in September (probably the 1st month since her file has been flagged and she will be in the 1st set of assessments) and we will move from there.

I've never heard of hoops to jump through in Canada other than potentially a wait time for evaluation if you don't have private insurance. I just had a DCB diagnosed with a variety of issues and other than waiting for appointment times (the first appt was a 4 week wait) there were no hoops. They talked to their family doctor, they were referred to a psychiatrist, DCB did the testing and evaluation over a couple of months of sessions and then there was another wait of 6 weeks waiting for the "official" report although diagnosis and treatment began right away.

I have another former DCB who had almost an identical experience when he was diagnosed 5 years ago.

[daycarediva]

I've never heard of hoops to jump through in Canada other than potentially a wait time for evaluation if you don't have private insurance. I just had a DCB diagnosed with a variety of issues and other than waiting for appointment times (the first appt was a 4 week wait) there were no hoops. They talked to their family doctor, they were referred to a psychiatrist, DCB did the testing and evaluation over a couple of months of sessions and then there was another wait of 6 weeks waiting for the "official" report although diagnosis and treatment began right away.

I have another former DCB who had almost an identical experience when he was diagnosed 5 years ago.

I really believe this little girl is just out of control and the parents refuse to acknowledge it and the provider was at her limit with the lax discipline.

[Angelsj]

I wish I could figure out how to get on the “on the spectrum" money wagon. It's the hottest ticket in town. Often it means the kid has terrible behavior but is gifted.

It won't be long before on the spectrum is so expensive that it changes back to just poor behavior.

So I can assume none of your own children are "on the spectrum." This is one of the most ignorant statements I have seen you make.
No matter what is going on there will be some parents who use an excuse to not make their child behave, but unless you have parented a child who is autistic or has asperger's syndrome, you really can't understand what it means.

People with your attitude have been making my and my children's lives miserable for 23 years.

[countrymom]

I'm going to be blunt. Your dd is ruling the roost. Time to wake up and stop blaming everyone.

Your dd isn't special needs, she needs discipline. Time outs don't work, ha, have you even tried them. Do you know how to do them right.

Your dd dumped toys on the floor and refused to clean up, she knew what she was doing. So a consequence needs to follow. What are you going to do when she goes to the store, hide all the stuff so she doesn't throw things on the floor. Lady wake up, your dd's situation is fixable.

also, I find it odd that your provider told you that she put your dd in a room and shut the door and then admit it???

also, I'm curious what kind of discipline do you use at home, I don't see anywhere in the posts what you acually use. You can't keep redirecting kids, its just doesn't work with everyone, and you said you were a teacher so you should know.

also, what kind of preschool do we have in canada?????? Do you mean junior kindy. And Esp. one that deals with sn kids. Because we have specific centers, not preschools.

[countrymom]

So I can assume none of your own children are "on the spectrum." This is one of the most ignorant statements I have seen you make.
No matter what is going on there will be some parents who use an excuse to not make their child behave, but unless you have parented a child who is autistic or has asperger's syndrome, you really can't understand what it means.

People with your attitude have been making my and my children's lives miserable for 23 years.

I don't think she is meaning kids who are really diagnosed. Because I have to totally agree with her. I have never ever seen a rise in such silliness. Here in canada you can apply for money to help you out. I can see kids who get properly diagnosed, but there are so many kids whos parents "diagnose" them and then call it special needs. Even teachers are now saying most kids have adhd (ds's teacher even said this to me because ds goes to the bathroom twice a day at school--I kid you not, he thinks ds has adhd)

[RosieMommy]

I've never heard of hoops to jump through in Canada other than potentially a wait time for evaluation if you don't have private insurance. I just had a DCB diagnosed with a variety of issues and other than waiting for appointment times (the first appt was a 4 week wait) there were no hoops. They talked to their family doctor, they were referred to a psychiatrist, DCB did the testing and evaluation over a couple of months of sessions and then there was another wait of 6 weeks waiting for the "official" report although diagnosis and treatment began right away.

I have another former DCB who had almost an identical experience when he was diagnosed 5 years ago.

It sounds like the waiting for the evaluation are the "hoops" to which she was referring.