Just Shot Myself In The Foot, For Not Doing A Contract

[Holiday Park]

back in january :- ( .

background:
I was pregnant last year with my son and decided not to take on any weekly/long term children until I felt ready ... I did only temporary/occasional childcare until I was about 6/7 months. Fast forward to January this year. I wanted to start out slowly,getting kids back into my care. And then add more when my son was closer to a year. So when my son was 3 months old, a 3 month old girl started with me 2 days a week. Every Monday and Friday. I used to do contracts and did late fees. I decided not to with this mom, (since she was the only one) thinking if I was just firm enough with her and upfront it would be enough. She was told from the get go that payment for the following week is due every Friday .It just works for me better than waiting until the first day of their week. It also gave me time to have it deposited by mon in case I had a bill to pay,or whatever.

On her first weeks using me,she tried telling me she was going to pay monday and I did speak up. I said only this one time,but remember payment is always due on Friday whether she comes or not. Because (and this is true) I'm holding an entire spot for those two days,I can't replace her with another child if she's absent. I do however, not charge for time off if told WAY in advance of her not being here (most daycares in this area don't offer that) ,AND if Im ever sick or need a day off I don't charge for that.
fast forward....
Mom pays on time every week after that. If she knew DD was to be absent on Friday (planned stuff,not illness) she automaticly paid on Monday morning, so the next week would be paid for just as it would had she paid on Friday. August 3rd ,Her DD was sick (actually I think they told me the night before). I forgot to say ok,please bring payment ,etc.. and assumed she would just bring it by. NOT . When Sat came around I started reasoning with myself in my head..oh its just this one time. You'd think i sohuld know better right?? I've done childcare the last bit of 2009 and all of 2010-some of 2011.So she continues paying on time ..then her DD is sick yesterday so I get called lastnight that she's not coming in. Today I thought oh no,what if she thinks she doesn't have to pay because I didn't say anything last time.

So I nicely texted her " friendly reminder: Please remember to drop off payment today,for next week"

She texts me back :
"I'm not going to be able to. Have too much going on tonight. I'll bring it to you on Monday morning like I've done before when this has happened."

I see she is trying to play it off like it's a regular occurance,when it's only happend ONCE in August. However I do feel bad,and am mad at myself I should have spoke up then. But I don't want to kep giving in and let he think this can happen every single time her DD is sick on Friday.

I reply:
"Oh,that one time I forgot to say something,but it's always due on Friday." I actually wanted to say something like, the only time you were late was August 3rd but I was too afradi to speak up and shoudl have. I'm sorry if I confused you. But my mom is here and she said to say it like above so it would be more polite and she wouldn't take it the wrong way.

Her reply:

I realize that and I have been prompt with paying you on Fridays and would apreciate your understanding given the circumstances" By circumstances,she means her DD having a fever lastnight,and is staying at gramma's today. So basically I feel safe to assume she thinks if she's sick,I have to make an expection. If she's in the hospital or its something serious,yes I wouldn't be rigid. she had a fever lastnight and gramma is keepnig her today.

In the mothers defense, it HAS been since August .... Like my mom is pointing out to me. But if I let it go, she's going to think every time her DD is sick its ok to just pay on Monday instead. Also, I have 2 other people who use me now,since she started. They know no pay= no childcare. I was very firm when this last one started. The other baby I care for, his mom actually called him in sick today too (unrelated illness) ,but she still made sure I got paid. She sent her mom over. She would have come herself if her mom or BF couldn't.
Oh brother, time to get draw up contracts again,and bring back late fees. I really did NOT want to have to do all that,because when I had late fees, two people actually paid late,and just paid their late fees too , ! I'd rather get paid on time,than charge late fees. But with contracts in place,at least I can say hey you agreed to this,it's right here in writing... It's not about the money. I don't like being told when shes going to pay,when she was told its due on Friday. So WWYD in this situation ? I think I'm to blame,but can't allow this any further either.

[cheerfuldom]

back in january :- ( .

background:
I was pregnant last year with my son and decided not to take on any weekly/long term children until I felt ready ... I did only temporary/occasional childcare until I was about 6/7 months. Fast forward to January this year. I wanted to start out slowly,getting kids back into my care. And then add more when my son was closer to a year. So when my son was 3 months old, a 3 month old girl started with me 2 days a week. Every Monday and Friday. I used to do contracts and did late fees. I decided not to with this mom, (since she was the only one) thinking if I was just firm enough with her and upfront it would be enough. She was told from the get go that payment for the following week is due every Friday .It just works for me better than waiting until the first day of their week. It also gave me time to have it deposited by mon in case I had a bill to pay,or whatever.

On her first weeks using me,she tried telling me she was going to pay monday and I did speak up. I said only this one time,but remember payment is always due on Friday whether she comes or not. Because (and this is true) I'm holding an entire spot for those two days,I can't replace her with another child if she's absent. I do however, not charge for time off if told WAY in advance of her not being here (most daycares in this area don't offer that) ,AND if Im ever sick or need a day off I don't charge for that.
fast forward....
Mom pays on time every week after that. If she knew DD was to be absent on Friday (planned stuff,not illness) she automaticly paid on Monday morning, so the next week would be paid for just as it would had she paid on Friday. August 3rd ,Her DD was sick (actually I think they told me the night before). I forgot to say ok,please bring payment ,etc.. and assumed she would just bring it by. NOT . When Sat came around I started reasoning with myself in my head..oh its just this one time. You'd think i sohuld know better right?? I've done childcare the last bit of 2009 and all of 2010-some of 2011.So she continues paying on time ..then her DD is sick yesterday so I get called lastnight that she's not coming in. Today I thought oh no,what if she thinks she doesn't have to pay because I didn't say anything last time.

So I nicely texted her " friendly reminder: Please remember to drop off payment today,for next week"

She texts me back :
"I'm not going to be able to. Have too much going on tonight. I'll bring it to you on Monday morning like I've done before when this has happened."

I see she is trying to play it off like it's a regular occurance,when it's only happend ONCE in August. However I do feel bad,and am mad at myself I should have spoke up then. But I don't want to kep giving in and let he think this can happen every single time her DD is sick on Friday.

I reply:
"Oh,that one time I forgot to say something,but it's always due on Friday." I actually wanted to say something like, the only time you were late was August 3rd but I was too afradi to speak up and shoudl have. I'm sorry if I confused you. But my mom is here and she said to say it like above so it would be more polite and she wouldn't take it the wrong way.

Her reply:

I realize that and I have been prompt with paying you on Fridays and would apreciate your understanding given the circumstances" By circumstances,she means her DD having a fever lastnight,and is staying at gramma's today. So basically I feel safe to assume she thinks if she's sick,I have to make an expection. If she's in the hospital or its something serious,yes I wouldn't be rigid. she had a fever lastnight and gramma is keepnig her today.

In the mothers defense, it HAS been since August .... Like my mom is pointing out to me. But if I let it go, she's going to think every time her DD is sick its ok to just pay on Monday instead. Also, I have 2 other people who use me now,since she started. They know no pay= no childcare. I was very firm when this last one started. The other baby I care for, his mom actually called him in sick today too (unrelated illness) ,but she still made sure I got paid. She sent her mom over. She would have come herself if her mom or BF couldn't.
Oh brother, time to get draw up contracts again,and bring back late fees. I really did NOT want to have to do all that,because when I had late fees, two people actually paid late,and just paid their late fees too , ! I'd rather get paid on time,than charge late fees. But with contracts in place,at least I can say hey you agreed to this,it's right here in writing... It's not about the money. I don't like being told when shes going to pay,when she was told its due on Friday. So WWYD in this situation ? I think I'm to blame,but can't allow this any further either.

now that you have added more kids and are up and running again, its time to put everything in writing. I would apologize to the other mom and let her know that you realize that you confused her by going against your own word....but in the future, there will be no exception made. Give her your contract and she needs to sign and return Friday and agree to abide by all the policies in the future.

[sharlan]

It doesn't sound like this is a common occurance. Personally, I would let it go, just like last time. Of course, if she didn't have the money in hand come Monday morning, I'd turn her away.

I have one that didn't come today. Mom texted she'd stop by this evening to pay. I told her to hold off and pay on Monday rather than make a special trip.

[Willow]

It doesn't sound like this is a common occurance. Personally, I would let it go, just like last time.

I agree.

If she usually pays on time (only one exception - that's awesome!) and it's a matter of her wanting to get home to take care of her ill child without having an extra stop, there's no way in heck I'd be taking a parent to task over that.

I understand why you see it as a rule is a rule, but I also see it from the parents perspective. I'd be super upset, maybe even angry, if a provider required me to make an extra stop on such a stressful day to pay her for services I hadn't even received yet.

As long as you get your payment before she drops her kiddo off next week I don't see what the big deal is :confused:

[cheerfuldom]

but dont both of you think the OP should work up a contract anyway? to prevent any future issues?

[MyAngels]

I agree.

If she usually pays on time (only one exception - that's awesome!) and it's a matter of her wanting to get home to take care of her ill child without having an extra stop, there's no way in heck I'd be taking a parent to task over that.

I understand why you see it as a rule is a rule, but I also see it from the parents perspective. I'd be super upset, maybe even angry, if a provider required me to make an extra stop on such a stressful day to pay her for services I hadn't even received yet.

As long as you get your payment before she drops her kiddo off next week I don't see what the big deal is :confused:

I agree with this. I know we all talk often about "having a backbone," but I don't think that should make us unyielding in every circumstance. One of the joys of owning your own business is that you can make these decisions on a case-by-case basis.

I do think that you should work up contracts now that you're providing care on a more regular basis.

[Willow]

but dont both of you think the OP should work up a contract anyway? to prevent any future issues?

Oh absolutely.

They help clarify so much and it definitely protects both parties from misunderstandings.

[Holiday Park]

I wouldn't be so irritated if she would just ASK instead of outright telling me that because she's too busy ,she will just pay on monday. I mine as well just let her pay at the beginning of the week every time she is absent on Fridays. She only comes two days a week Monday and Friday only.


When we interviewed, back when out LO's were 3 months old , it is her very first and when asked what her views on certain things/parenting practices would be she said she had not decided yet. My son, who is 2weeks older is my 4th child. I was planning to do things with him how I did with my recent childcare kids the year before , and how some things were done with my niece. I decided after I was sure what i planned to do with MY son was successful, I would try to find other clients who shared the same views or at least allowed me to do the same things. ( some non mainstream things like cloth, baby led weaning. And I had some ideas how I wanted to do potty training differently, but wasn't sure at that point.
There are quite a few things I want done differently, and am not sure if I even want to do PT any more now that i have two FT'ers ( well one comes Pt but that parent pays FT to have a FT spot) . I could tell her I don't want to do PT anymore and offer to change to FT . But she ( the parent) is the least fit with me And honestly I don't want her FT be ause thehours per day are too long. I don't want to end it because I like the child and She has been coming this whole year. I just don't think and believe the same as the parents and grandparents on a lot of things so there is nothing to talk about at Do&PU ( i have a good social relationship with the other 2 while still maintaining boundaries). So when child care related topics come up, I'm very uncomfortable talking to them. I'm anticipating to have issues come up as she gets older and i feel my resentment will grow so it's time to get a web site started back up again, and a new hand book drawn up. It's going to take me a while to plan all that and it may go through many revisions before becoming finished. The only thing I can tell her now is that i will be working on a handbook and eventually start doing written agreements and paperwork, like I used to do with past clients, before she started with me. And in the mean time, let her pay on Mondays if she wants.
Because what's the point in having a Pay on Fri policy if I'm going to make exceptions every single time she demands ( not asks) it?
Since she pays by check, and I deposit using an App on my phone, it takes 1-2 days to post to my account . I would end up posting tuesday unless I deposit it through the ATM instead.

[Willow]

And in the mean time, let her pay on Mondays if she wants.
Because what's the point in having a Pay on Fri policy if I'm going to make exceptions every single time she demands ( not asks) it?

"Every single time she demands it????" *Once* she tells you she can't manage dropping off a pre-pay check for your convenience....that turns into writing her off with a sweeping "every single time" statement, as if she abuses your terms and makes your life difficult on a regular basis intentionally.....

Her child was sick....I just cannot believe how hostile you seem to be getting over the fact that she told you she couldn't make it over her asking you and you oking that it was fine she couldn't make it......what on earth is the difference?

You ok-ed it the first times, it was an honest misunderstanding and she complied after you clarified. This time her child is ill. It happens.



I agree with you, this family is not a good fit for you. I'd definitely let her know it's not working so she can get her child set up elsewhere.

Perhaps consider getting a direct deposit system in place for your remaining families so you are assured payment on exactly the same day at exactly the same time without life ever potentially getting in the way of that.

[Holiday Park]

In response to " You ok-ed it the first times, it was an honest misunderstanding and she complied after you clarified. This time her child is ill. It happens. "
It's not "this time her child is ill" It' s the second time she is ill and seems to tink each time she gets ill that means no pay. She said she had too much going on, as her reason for not swinging by. The child was staying the night and whole day with gramma . So it wasn't the child being ill that kept her from paying. She was in other words, " too busy" .

She did not comply after I clarified. This is the third time she decided on her own she was going to pay late. The first time was in the first or second week. She complied that time ( in a sense) by paying on time ..... Until the next time when she just decided on her own Friday August 3rd to not pay until Monday August 6th. ( I have all payments , and days used/not used with reasons documented for my personal records) . When she didn't pay August 3rd I didn't think I should have to remind her. I was hoping she would text or call and then I got worried and yes i admitt chicken to speak up. That's why I don't doubt that i am to blame. I do think it's an issue about giving an inch and her taking a mile, more than just a case of "oh give her a break her kid is sick" ,

I am trying to figure out what to say to fix the problem of her thinking she can pay late every time for that reason. She will have gramma pick her up some days, or leave her with Grandma all together on some days instead of bringing her here.
I've been thinking, and after reading what I wrote , the replies , and will work for me as a business ( and personal too) outlook, that i need to creat a new handbook about what i offer , and am willing to do/not do. Also stating something about FT'ers having seniority over PT/drop in care.
I've decided it will be a good idea to tell her I'm sorry for any misunderstandings I have caused. And offer to have her just pay by the day instead, since she's only been using me 2days a week for the last year AND lately she has been having gramma keep her on one of those days every couple months.

Gramma likes to get her on Fridays . Maybe she brings her here on Fridays still, since she already has to pay for it. And if she knows she doesn't have to pay she doesn't have to use that day. Now, I've already begun feeling unhappy about reserving a whole spot for her, to only come for 2 days and only have to pay for those 2days . She hasn't been required to pay a FT or even PT weekly rate. I quoted a daily rate, and told her to pay for both days at the daily rates( so $60 for both days instead of the 110$ FT) . If I take a day off I give notice of 2wks+ to many months advance and don't charge her. We have never been sick since she started except a minor cold . So haven't needed to close for illness. But I don't charge for that, and if I get 2wks+ notice of any week long vacations shes absent I don't charge anything.
None of the daycare centers or in home day cares do that in my area, that I know of. They charge $1.00 per minute for late pick ups after closing. I don't tell her what she can/can't bring or when to stop formula. I don't require she bring everything pre-packaged&labeled. I make all the bottles and rinse them out after use. I stay here if they are running late. There is a lot I do and offer to begin with so when I'm being told shes running late every other week, and then she starts telling me she will pay monday instead of asking, it wears on me and I feel like I let myself feel disrespected .
If she had asked instead of telling me, I would have been more inclined to give in. And then i still would have drawn up a handbook and tried to figure out what needed to change

[Willow]

I do all of the things you do for my little ones, but if you don't like or want to there's nothing wrong with that.

It really sounds like getting your policies all lined up and then enforcing them is going to be your best bet in solving all of the issues. Sit down and sort out what is important to you and then let your parents know you will be starting your policies effective (set date). Have them sign your new contracts and a form stating they received the new policies. Then don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and enforce them.

When I had a part time kiddo that was eating into my spots I didn't want to terminate because I really cared for the family. But having a limited number of spots per the states requirements and not liking how part time impacted the child (not having a set daily schedule) I had to find a way to fix how I felt about it. I set new policies, including a minimum weekly charge (of 20 hours) and told them when it would start (two weeks). Mom decided they didn't want to pay the new minimum hours or bring her child more so she used the two weeks to give me her notice and they decided it was best for their family for her to stay home full time. Was going to work for me either way because I was either going to start making a fair amount from the spot or the spot was going to get freed up when they left. I don't take any part time kids now. Minimum 32 contracted hours used Monday-Friday or I don't accept the child into care. Something like that might work well for you too if you're worried about families under-utilizing your available spots.

I am hoping this is just all a big misunderstanding due to a lack of solid boundaries and it'll all work out for you in the end once you get those established!

[Holiday Park]

Edited to say I didn't see the above reply when I wrote this below. I'm using my phone to type this. Actually I'm so glad you replied about the minimum hours per week thing Willow, because I am going to be posting about a seperate issue with another family that I DO like very much. I was wanting to do something similar to that with the other family's situation. I'll post about that later when I can get back online and my son is asleep .
*******************************************

I'm thinking , after apologizing for any misunderstandings I may have caused to tell her she can pay by the day from now on. And that if I happen to get new FT kid in the future, I will have to give seniority to that person since I've decided to stop holding entire weekly spots for occasional/PT babies/toddlers . I only want to have a limited # in my care. So by holding a spot only to not get paid, if she didn't come, would not make sense if I ever have a potential client interested in FT care.
Right now the cons are outweighing the pros. So what do you think about offering her pay by day and terminating care ( with 3wks+ notice) if I find someone to replace her. Should I not tell her that paying by the day will make her replaceable? She may pull her child anyway.

[cheerfuldom]

I think you are getting lost in the details here OP

Figure out what YOU want for your daycare and what works with your personality and your family. Then give her the contract and clarify what you can and cannot provide and let her decide from there OR go ahead and terminate and just move on. I think making firm decisions about what will and will not be allowed will be the deciding factor in this case. At this point, I would drop the payment issue until the contract is completed and you have an agreement in writing about your Friday policy. For now it is a pain to get paid on Monday but this can be solved quickly by getting the contract figured out and starting anew OR just letting them go. If you know that they will not mesh well with your new policies then go ahead and start finding a replacement and let them go as soon as you can. I personally would not offer three weeks notice, nothing more than two weeks and give them the option to pull faster if they find something else quicker. Obviously there is a lot more going on here than just the payment issue so its important to see the big picture. you need to work with families that fit in well, not families that cause extra stress and drama

[Holiday Park]

When she started i knew what I wanted , in regards to how things would be done but wasn't entirely sure yet. See with my fourth baby there were a couple things I wanted to do different than before. If I was succesful , it would be the deciding factor with a few things.
She didnt know what she wanted at all so it was a wait see process. As my son got older ( he is the same age , both 1yr old now) my ideas about food and pottytraining for example became more set in stone.
When I took the other baby ( who started 3.5 months ago) I made sure this mom either knew what she wanted in terms of how she planned to parent or was at least open to suggestions and me trying new things my way IF she hadn't decided. So far we have been on the same page. I don't give unasked advice. But she will often text me about things and ask me. We worked together through things and I love the level of connunication we have. We are semi-social but with bounderies still . The first mom&dad never communicates about anything unless to tell me shes sick. I dont need to know about their life but I have to ask every single time if she's having a rough say or not sleeping, etc... They run late, rarely text/ email back when I have questions. I use a daily connect App and track everything se does and send the report at the end of the day. Send pictures&videos by text. She says shes too busy to reply back but apreciates getting them. They are in such a hurry at Do&PU's that there is no time to recap on much . This is why I do daily reports . Otherwise she will text me how is she doing , when did she do this/that and then I will answer but she never answers me when I ask her stuff. I told them I need more communication and shes like oh Im just so busy..... Gramma has picked her up every time during nap time. She now calls first, but I still dont like her being picked up at that time even if shes woken because others are asleep. she is the only one who cries very loud when she wakes up, so when I have to wake her for gramma , she could wake up the other baby with her loud "wake up" cry.

There are things mom have said that made me feel not very trusted and respected but I won't get into that. Mom to mom/client to provider I dont think we are a good fit. Her DD ? she fits in fine.
I texted her back this morning
**Edited to remove question... I copied and pasted from a text to my mom (and forgot to remove her name here)**

"Im sorry if i caused any misunderstandings.
Since she is here 2days or less , per week ,just do pay by the day from now on . No payment required if ******* isn't here. However, advance notice is still needed if she will not be coming on either of those days. I hope she's feeling better . "

This way if I end up needing to ever terminate on the spot there won't be any pre/payments to refund. I Decided to look for a replacement . And terminate care with the reason of "us no longer being a good fit" .

Like I said , I don't think its anything she has done wrong. I made some mistakes thinking things would just evolve ok , not knowing how they planned to do things as the babies got older and turned into toddlers. I think as they continue to get older issues will come up. So I do plan on making a handbook, with written agreement. So she will see how I at least plan to do things.
It takes me a long time to write stuff up, and I have to find my xhildcare binder that got lost in storage when we moved. It had all the "registration" forms, and and all kinds of forms and things like that , that most providers keep on hand. Including copies of my old hand book, etc..

[Holiday Park]

Hmmm . I made a new thread earlier tonight ,with an update. I didn't see where it went though.
She emailed me saying that there is no need to do that for her ( just do pay by day& no pay if her DD doesn't come) .
Here is a portion of her email about this situation:

" I talked it over with (insert her DH name) and we actually like the system we had before with pre paying for the week ahead....that way we don't get behind. In cases where she may be ill on Friday and not there we'd pay on the Monday for that week. also, we don't mind paying you for days she's not there like Friday due to sickness or some reason from our end cause that is how any daycare does it. I appreciate you offering to change it but we'd like to stick with how we were doing it because it worked for us. "

So now she's saying not only does she want to keep not paying in advance when her DD is ill, but also when she doesn't come on Fridays. Keep in mind this child is only here on Mondays &Fridays . And Gramma had her Friday when I had asked for payment, for this week. She said she "had too much going on" to swing a payment by that night. I don't find out until today that Friday night she had a high fever ( not just regular fever) and was sick with a throat infection and virus. And yhat gramma would be keeping her till tomorrow. She worked today. I didn't know she worked weekends. Aprently her child wasn't too sick to still work and not just stay home with her.
Anyway I texted back that i didn't know anything other than what she told me on Thursday that it was just a fever. And now I know.
So back to the email... I realize in my other post I was probably getting too technical over a child eho is now coming only 1-2 days. Im st the point that she can just pay how she wants so long as its not after care is given. I just don't like going back and forth having to change things. I told her pay by the day from now on and she acted like it was an offer. I didn't mean it as an offer but if she wants to still pay in advance some of the time just let her right?

I'm going to make a new handbook and I figured I can just let it go snd give her the handbook after it's made . I'm leaning toward looking to replace her with a FT'er , but at the same time I think our relationship might be salvageable. (Sp?)
I can just wait and see how it goes after the handbook is made right?
What do you think ?