Upset

[Crystal]

He wore his shoes to daycare so they were available. She took all her children to the pool and he was screaming and didn't want to go in. She didn't know why he was screaming and it wasn't discovered until he was taken home and mom found blisters. He was seen at an urgent care facility where borderline 3rd degree burns were diagnosed. He needs to be seen again when the blisters break so that they can remove skin from his little feet. Mom was upset, but when the caretaker cried and was sorrowful she softened and just told her to keep his shoes on him from now on. If there is an accident report to fill out I think it should be done. I know nothing about daycare so I didn't suggest that. Who/where can this be done? Thanks for any help you can provide.

Yes, At the very least there should be an accident report. And, yes, I feel this provider was neglectful....who does not investigate to figure out WHY a one year old is crying? AND, at some point, his shoes should have been put back on by the provider, yet she STILL did not notice that his feet were burned? Regardless of HOW his feet were burned, this provider was responsible for the safety of this child....she neglected to investigate WHY he was crying....even if it was because he was afraid of the water, at the least she should have picked him up and consoled him....at that point she probably would have realized it was more than not wanting to swim. More than the burned feet, I would be concerned about why the provider was not providing this child with consolation when he was crying....he's ONE, when a one year old is SCREAMING, you look into WHY. And, honestly, I think most providers can determine between a fit throwing cry/scream and an EXCRUCIATING PAIN scream.


I am SHOCKED that providers here are saying, basically, to get over it.

[jen]

Yes, At the very least there should be an accident report. And, yes, I feel this provider was neglectful....who does not investigate to figure out WHY a one year old is crying? AND, at some point, his shoes should have been put back on by the provider, yet she STILL did not notice that his feet were burned? Regardless of HOW his feet were burned, this provider was responsible for the safety of this child....she neglected to investigate WHY he was crying....even if it was because he was afraid of the water, at the least she should have picked him up and consoled him....at that point she probably would have realized it was more than not wanting to swim. More than the burned feet, I would be concerned about why the provider was not providing this child with consolation when he was crying....he's ONE, when a one year old is SCREAMING, you look into WHY. And, honestly, I think most providers can determine between a fit throwing cry/scream and an EXCRUCIATING PAIN scream.


I am SHOCKED that providers here are saying, basically, to get over it.

Oh for God's sake Crystal, NO ONE said to just get over it!!!!

Do you realize that it is HIGHLY unlikely that he touched pavement and his feet immediately blistered with BORDERLINE 3rd degree burns? In all liklihood his feet looked red and many not have blistered for hours!

Were you there? Did you hear the child SCREAMING in EXCRUCIATING pain?

Try running another scenario...kid seems fine, looks at water and starts to scream. Provider picks up child thinking he is afraid to go in. Comforts him and carries him in the water...water cools feet, child stops crying...provider thinks all is OK.

There is nothing here to believe that after the initial incident that the child kept crying. Provider puts on shoes to go home and is OBVIOUSLY not crying since neither the parent or the provider suspected a problem at pick-up. It wasn't until he was at home that Mom noticed the blisters.

FURTHERMORE, depsite the fact that you and Grandma think that this is an issue that needs further investigation the PARENT of the child does not, perhaps we should all just bow to her judgement!

I don't think she needs to get over it, I think she needs to leave the parenting to her daughter. Unless of course she thinks her daughter is irresponsible or uncaring toward her child.

[mac60]

When I read the original post, it was confusing, then I read the additional explanation, and it sounds like the child was brought to daycare with issues on his feet, instead of the provider causing the burns.....did something happen the night before? I just find it very hard to believe it happened in such a short time span.

[Crystal]

Jen, that was a figure of speech.....the attitude that "mistakes happen" and automatically assuming that the child was sent without proper footwear gives he impression that some providers think she should "get over it"

Regardless of HOW it happened, the chld was in the providers care and his feet were burned to the point that he needed medical attention, AND she wasn't even aware of it until mom discovered it after gettig him home and removing his shoes. There is no way in heck that she should not havenoticed SOMETHING wrong with this child.

And, yes, I would imagine a one year recieving near 3rd degree burns on his feet would cause him to cry in EXCRUCIATING pain.

OP, I would check out the pool area where the children were....if there is anything metal, such as a cover to a filter or something, the child could have been standing on that and got burned....the metal get EXTREMELY hot.

[jen]

Jen, that was a figure of speech.....the attitude that "mistakes happen" and automatically assuming that the child was sent without proper footwear gives he impression that some providers think she should "get over it"

Regardless of HOW it happened, the chld was in the providers care and his feet were burned to the point that he needed medical attention, AND she wasn't even aware of it until mom discovered it after gettig him home and removing his shoes. There is no way in heck that she should not havenoticed SOMETHING wrong with this child.

And, yes, I would imagine a one year recieving near 3rd degree burns on his feet would cause him to cry in EXCRUCIATING pain.

OP, I would check out the pool area where the children were....if there is anything metal, such as a cover to a filter or something, the child could have been standing on that and got burned....the metal get EXTREMELY hot.

Let me rephrase...no one meant to imply that she should just get over it. EVERYONE expressed sympathy and concern. The "do we really need to tell daycare operators..." remark was hostile toward providers as a whole.

Ever known a child to scream in excruciating pain when they got a sunburn? Even one that blistered? You are assuming that he touched hot pavement and got a burn, like on a stove. That scenario is pretty doubtful.

And yes, she did think something was wrong, she thought he was scared! It is interesting that you think that the provider should have noticed, even though Mom didn't notice at pick up. For all we know, she didn't see it until 7:30 at night when she gave the child a bath.

I don't have all the information and neither do you. His mother does though, and she is satisfied with the providers response. Why aren't you? We don't even know if this was a licensed daycare provider or a SAHM...for all we know she's 22 years old, has a 6 month old baby, and no other experience with children since she babysat when she was 12!

People DO make mistakes. The provider was remorseful to the point of tears. You will at some point make a mistake, although I doubt you will admit it. Let's hope that people treat you with more understanding than you show for other providers.

[Janet]

Oh wow...

If the parent has addressed the issue with the provider, and the provider understands where the parent is coming from, then why would the grandma (who is not, from what I read, the decision maker) want to take it further? Everyone single one of us providers has made mistakes from time to time. It's all part of gaining experience so that we know to not fall in the same hole again. As far as the borderline 3rd degree burns are concerned, I don't know about that. If a child had burns that severe, then it's probably likely that the child would not have been able to be comforted at all. I teach first aid and one of the area that I cover are different types of burns and the different degrees of burns. A burn as severe as the grandmother said it was would be so painful that there wouldn't really be a way to comfort the child. A first degree burn would hurt but it wouldn't be unsoothable. A 2nd degree burn would be incredibly painful and would most likely result in blisters. A 3rd degree burn would either be excrutiating or would not be painful at all due to the tissue and nerve damage to the burned area. I feel bad for the kid because being burned ****s! Poor little guy!

I'm a big believer in accident reports for any accidents, just because it covers my butt. I think that this kids provider would do well to start filling them out. Maybe this will be the catalyst for the provider to start filling out accident reports. I don't think that this provider needs to be reported or anything like that. This was an accident, pure and simple. If it were to happen again, then further steps may need to be taken, but if this is an isolated incident, then I think that the provider should be left alone.

We all make mistakes from time to time, even with years and years of experience. There are no exceptions to this. The only difference is in the frequency and severity of the mistakes.

[sahm2three]

Yes, At the very least there should be an accident report. And, yes, I feel this provider was neglectful....who does not investigate to figure out WHY a one year old is crying? AND, at some point, his shoes should have been put back on by the provider, yet she STILL did not notice that his feet were burned? Regardless of HOW his feet were burned, this provider was responsible for the safety of this child....she neglected to investigate WHY he was crying....even if it was because he was afraid of the water, at the least she should have picked him up and consoled him....at that point she probably would have realized it was more than not wanting to swim. More than the burned feet, I would be concerned about why the provider was not providing this child with consolation when he was crying....he's ONE, when a one year old is SCREAMING, you look into WHY. And, honestly, I think most providers can determine between a fit throwing cry/scream and an EXCRUCIATING PAIN scream.


I am SHOCKED that providers here are saying, basically, to get over it.

Are you serious?!?!? Do you inspect the bottoms of feet when you help put shoes on? I don't. You must be the PERFECT dc provider!! I am sure you can control the sun, too. You sure do look into WHY a child is crying, but at 1, most times they can't tell you or have a hard time verbalizing what is wrong. How do you know she didn't provide consolation to this child? You know what happens when we assume?! Maybe you should start classes on how to teach all of us to be perfect like you......

[Crystal]

First, let me say, I never suggested that this provider be reported.I said, at the very least, the provider should have completed an accident report. Here, in Ca. it would have been considered an unusual incident, and the PROVIDER is required to report it to licensing. And, as a parent OR grandparent, I would be asking A LOT of questions.

Jen, Mom wasn't there to notice when it happened. If the child had shoes on at pick up time how would she know? Even if the child was crying, she would not have known about the feet until she saw them, as she did not witness the incident that caused it and the unaware provider did not report it to her. THAT is the biggest reason as a parent that I would be upset....she should have known and she should have called the parent, not have the parent discover it hours later.

I recall the thread about a child getting burned on a plastic slide on a public playground, where the parent was understanding with the provider and half the providers on this forum jumped in saying that the provider should lose her license....why is this any different? And, guess what? That parent wasn't happy a few days later - I know a provider who interviewed that family to provide services for the little girl that was burned, so I KNOW she wasn't "satisfied" with the provider's reasoning a few days later....same thing may happen with this parent. To me, though, it doesn't matter if Mom or Grandma wants something done about it, the provider was negligent, plain and simple. If I were the parent and she called me at work and told me what happened, I'd probably be okay with the explanation. The fact that she was completely unaware and did not report it to me is what would cause me to be concerned about my choice for a provider.

And, certainly, I have made mistakes....there have been a few "accidents" that have occurred at my program in 13 years....BUT, I always knew that they occurred, called the parent immediately, documented the injury, etc. Apparently, this provider wasn't even aware that it happened....THAT is why I say it was neglectful. Sure, you can go to the pool, a child can burn his feet, it CAN happen. But, as the person responsible for the child, she should have been aware that he was IN PAIN and investigated to find out what the issue was.

So, the provider was remorseful and cried. BIG DEAL. Just as a little kid who hurts his friends gets caught and starts crying and saying sorry doesn't make it better.

[Crystal]

Are you serious?!?!? Do you inspect the bottoms of feet when you help put shoes on? I don't. You must be the PERFECT dc provider!! I am sure you can control the sun, too. You sure do look into WHY a child is crying, but at 1, most times they can't tell you or have a hard time verbalizing what is wrong. How do you know she didn't provide consolation to this child? You know what happens when we assume?! Maybe you should start classes on how to teach all of us to be perfect like you......

Actually, yes, I do check their feet when I put shoes on. I like to make sure they are clean first. If the burns were as bad as described, his feet would have been red and hot to the touch. At one, with his feet burning, I would imagine he was NOT simply standing still, he was probably bouncing around....

Whatever, my opinion still stands...she should have made sure it was handle appropriately.

[jen]

First, let me say, I never suggested that this provider be reported.I said, at the very least, the provider should have completed an accident report. Here, in Ca. it would have been considered an unusual incident, and the PROVIDER is required to report it to licensing. And, as a parent OR grandparent, I would be asking A LOT of questions.

Jen, Mom wasn't there to notice when it happened. If the child had shoes on at pick up time how would she know? Even if the child was crying, she would not have known about the feet until she saw them, as she did not witness the incident that caused it and the unaware provider did not report it to her. THAT is the biggest reason as a parent that I would be upset....she should have known and she should have called the parent, not have the parent discover it hours later.

I recall the thread about a child getting burned on a plastic slide on a public playground, where the parent was understanding with the provider and half the providers on this forum jumped in saying that the provider should lose her license....why is this any different? And, guess what? That parent wasn't happy a few days later - I know a provider who interviewed that family to provide services for the little girl that was burned, so I KNOW she wasn't "satisfied" with the provider's reasoning a few days later....same thing may happen with this parent. To me, though, it doesn't matter if Mom or Grandma wants something done about it, the provider was negligent, plain and simple. If I were the parent and she called me at work and told me what happened, I'd probably be okay with the explanation. The fact that she was completely unaware and did not report it to me is what would cause me to be concerned about my choice for a provider.

And, certainly, I have made mistakes....there have been a few "accidents" that have occurred at my program in 13 years....BUT, I always knew that they occurred, called the parent immediately, documented the injury, etc. Apparently, this provider wasn't even aware that it happened....THAT is why I say it was neglectful. Sure, you can go to the pool, a child can burn his feet, it CAN happen. But, as the person responsible for the child, she should have been aware that he was IN PAIN and investigated to find out what the issue was.

So, the provider was remorseful and cried. BIG DEAL. Just as a little kid who hurts his friends gets caught and starts crying and saying sorry doesn't make it better.

Agh, Crystal...you are like talking to a brick wall.

I don't KNOW...YOU don't know....we weren't there! Grandma wasn't there either and I doubt she was privey to the conversation between Mom and the provider.

All we know is what Grandma said...and Grandma said that Mom had softened. Grandma wanted Mom to handle it differently and she was here to get back up from us. It isn't her place.

Let me give you an example...

Years ago I had two boys who were wrestling around, which I don't allow. I told both boys to stop...they were 5 and 6 years old, but the 6 year old was big for his age.

I was changing a diaper and when I looked up they were at it again. I decided that we should go out and burn off some steam outside. Both boys appeared fine.

Later that night the Mom noticed that the younger boy wasn't using his arm. She asked him about it and he said that older boy had accidentally rolled on it while they were playing. He told Mom that he didn't tell me about it because I had just told them to stop and he didn't want to get in trouble.

She took the boy to the ER and discovered that he had broken his collar bone. He did not shed a single tear.

I made a number of mistakes. I should have diverted their attention immediately or at least put them at the table when I went to change the diaper.

I didn't notice that he was favoring his arm---actually his Mom didn't either until he was putting on his pj's.

And I'm sure if you look at it hard enough, you would come up with more. We are only human and we do the best we can. Some day it will happen to you and you will find yourself humbled by it, but at least you won't be so quick to use the word negligence.

By the way, I wasn't one of the posters calling for the head of the provider whose kid got burned on the slide. We are all one false move away from the front page.

[momofsix]

Without actually being there, it is pure speculation on all sides as to what happened. We don't know exactly how it happened, how long the child's feet were on the cement, if the child was consoled... or even if the mother knows enough and SHOULD be more concerned. I do wonder about "borderline 3rd degree", that sounds like 2nd degree to me? In MI (where I'm from) if a child is hurt badly enough to warrant medical care, it is MY job to report it. I have no idea what would happen if I didn't, or if they would even know. I'm thankful that a serious accident has never happened here, because it could. As careful as we are, and as much as we try to control the environment around our children, accidents can and will happen. As a provider, if that happened on my watch, I would feel horrible, embarassed and nervous about any repurcussions that might follow because of it.
As a parent, i would probably be furious-i don't know if this baby is 12 months or 23 months, that makes a difference in how he would be treated-but I know if I think someone hurt my kids, or didn't do their job in protecting them. look out. BUT, if I found out it was an absolutely unpreventable accident, then I would have no other options but to accept the apology and go on.
It would be nice to have all the info, but what we're getting is at the minimum third hand.

[Crystal]

Without actually being there, it is pure speculation on all sides as to what happened. We don't know exactly how it happened, how long the child's feet were on the cement, if the child was consoled... or even if the mother knows enough and SHOULD be more concerned. I do wonder about "borderline 3rd degree", that sounds like 2nd degree to me? In MI (where I'm from) if a child is hurt badly enough to warrant medical care, it is MY job to report it. I have no idea what would happen if I didn't, or if they would even know. I'm thankful that a serious accident has never happened here, because it could. As careful as we are, and as much as we try to control the environment around our children, accidents can and will happen. As a provider, if that happened on my watch, I would feel horrible, embarassed and nervous about any repurcussions that might follow because of it.
As a parent, i would probably be furious-i don't know if this baby is 12 months or 23 months, that makes a difference in how he would be treated-but I know if I think someone hurt my kids, or didn't do their job in protecting them. look out. BUT, if I found out it was an absolutely unpreventable accident, then I would have no other options but to accept the apology and go on.
It would be nice to have all the info, but what we're getting is at the minimum third hand.

I agree. And, as a Mom, I too would be furious. Like you said though, if it was not preventable, I'd understand, BUT I'd still expect to be informed by the provider, not find out hours after the fact. That's what bothers me about it....I could still work with a provider who KNEW it happened and TOLD me about it.....

but to not even know.....well that sounds suspicious to me.

[Former Teacher]

but to not even know.....well that sounds suspicious to me.

Sorry Ladies and Chicken (and Michael!)....the WHOLE POST sounds suspicious to me. I believe it's just one of those posts to get every one going.

On the other hand, its good to read every one's reply in case such a situation does ever occur.

However like all unregistered posts here, I take this one with a grain of salt.

[momofsix]

As to not knowing how something happens, here's a story for you all
I had a 17 month old in her booster, eating lunch. I looked over at her ane saw what I thought was a bleeding mouth, and her fingers in it. I immediately took her out, and began washing her face and giving her water to drink to find out where the blood was coming from--tooth, gums, lip?? I thought the bleeding stopped, until I looked down and saw that it was actually her FINGER that was bleeding! She had a huge gash on her finger. I cleaned it up, put a band-aid on and watched it. She went right through the band-aid. I put onother band-aid on, making sure to try and put the edges of the gash together. She was very sleepy, so i laid her down, and kept a close eye on it for more bleeding and it seemed to stop. I checked ALL AROUND the booster and could not find anything that would have cut her. I was almost panicking, thinking "how am I going to tell the mom that her baby might even need stitches, and I don't even know how it happened! It was an awful feeling!
So baby wakes up, I take off the band-aid to check it and it begins to bleed again like crazy, looks like stitches for sure to me i bandage it back up really good again. It's almost time for mom to come, so i don't call her, but i keep practicing what I am going to say-how to explain that I don't know what even happened.
Mom and 7 year old son come in the door, and the first thing out of 7 year olds mouth is "Wow, did you see (sister's) big cut!?
I could not believe it! I was furious They had broken a dish, and she managed to find a piece and pick it up and cut herself the night before. I explained that even though I usually try to check the kids over at drop-off, i missed this one. it should have been bandaged and she needed to see a Dr now.
Mom did feel bad, i think she could see how upset I really was. And the baby couldn't get stitches b/c they won't do it after 24 hours.
sorry this is so long:

[Unregistered]

Thank you Chrystal, for getting it! I was a peds nurse some time ago and if there had been a similar "accident" on my watch I don't think providers like Jen would dismiss that so easily. He had his shoes on when dropped and when picked up, thus mom didn't know until she got him home. Mom called me in tears and by the way, she is not my daughter. He is her and my son's first child. He was screaming and the only way it could have happened is from the pavement. A fifteen month old doesn't scream for no reason. His feet were blistered and I have a difficult time with the fact that the provider did not know. He is 15 months old and he has only been walking for about a month. The bottoms of a baby’s feet are not like yours and mine. They don't have to be walking on pavement for long for them to burn. He is a blond haired, blue eyed baby and precautions could have been made. The provider was neglectful and she did not make out any kind of report. I'm not out to see her lose her license but I do think another daycare might do a better job of protecting my grandson. There have been a couple of other incidents that caused mom and dad to question things with the daycare.