Are Monitors for Napping Required?

[jen]

I am so suprised at the number of people who think that providers should stay awake all night! So here are my questions...

Have you ever had a daycare kid spend the night as a favor to a parent or would you not do that because of the implied safety risk of sleeping? I keep kids once in awhile as a favor...well, a paid favor. Heck, I kept one family for a week while Mom and Dad went on vacation.


I know a few nurses who work nights and expect to pay LESS in daycare because the provider is sleeping. They wouldn't DREAM of paying extra to have someone be awake, nor do they think it is the least bit necessary. I asked. The response was..."what? why? It isn't like I would be up if they were home with me!"

[Former Teacher]

I am so suprised at the number of people who think that providers should stay awake all night! So here are my questions...

Have you ever had a daycare kid spend the night as a favor to a parent or would you not do that because of the implied safety risk of sleeping? I keep kids once in awhile as a favor...well, a paid favor. Heck, I kept one family for a week while Mom and Dad went on vacation.


I know a few nurses who work nights and expect to pay LESS in daycare because the provider is sleeping. They wouldn't DREAM of paying extra to have someone be awake, nor do they think it is the least bit necessary. I asked. The response was..."what? why? It isn't like I would be up if they were home with me!"

Let me do my best: ::

IMO that if you are providing a service to someone (NOT related, YES being paid), then yes you should be awake. If the child is a friend of your own child or your little niece or nephew then of course not.

Speaking of a service I am meaning a service that is occasional such as a date night deal. Not one that is 24/7. I agree with Crystal on that one as well (of course!). I still believe that IMO that a person should be awake even if the child is sleeping.

As for the nurses comments: there is a difference. You are being PAID to provide a service. They are not. YOU are the provider, they are the PARENT. God forbid something horrible should happen, YOU as the provider would have alot more to answer then THEY as a parent would.

[nannyde]

I think the way it SHOULD be, is that no ONE provider should be allowed to care for children around the clock. If you provide services 24 hours per day, there should be a daytime provider and an evening provider. One to supervise day shift, one to supervise night shift. If you are being paid for children during the daytime, and recieving the same rate for children at nighttime, they should be offered the same level of care and supervision as the children during the daytime.

If you do nightime care only, you should sleep during the day and be up at night, just as with any other "graveyard" shift at any other job. Why would a provider charge a rate that is the same as a daytime rate when they are doing FAR less work.....I do think that this is why some providers do nighttime only....same pay for far less demanding work.

I honestly think that family child care should not be allowed to operate around the clock without the stipulation that one provider does not work more than 12 hours in a day....it is not healthy for the provider and it is not safe for the children.

And, while it may work out to earning $3.00 per hour PER CHILD, we do not make three dollars per hour when you add all the children together.....we make WAY more than $3 per hour, or we wouldn't be in the field. Of course, I have expenses to take out of that, but so does the average worker: commute time, clothing for the job, DAYCARE, etc. So, it's not fair to make parents think that THEIR $3.00 per hour is not enough.

Have you ever done a business of overnight care? I did around the clock care for thirteen/fourteen years. The cost for the care of all overnight kids is markedly lower than the cost of daytime care at least where I come from. I rarely got kids who were just 10 p to 6 a. or hours where the kid slept the entire times. Most kids who spent the night came in early in the evening. I also had kids who came for the 3-11 shift. Those kids had the same number of direct care hours as the day kids.

People who access pure sleeping hours day care do NOT want to pay anywhere near the rates for day time. They could get family or friends to do it for that kind of money. Also, people who work overnight and have small children usually wanted some day hours attached to the deal so they could go home and sleep. I never had a pure overnight kid who was paid at even my lowest rate who didn't come any of the waking hours during the day.

When it comes to caring for kids while they sleep you can believe the parents know this coming into it and only want to pay a nominal fee because they know you can sleep. They won't pick a provider who charges full rates because she is awake watching the kids sleep over a much cheaper rate where the provider sleeps while the kids sleep. They don't watch their kids sleep so they don't want to pay someone to watch their kids sleep.

If you are offering "watch them while they sleep" service for a fair compensation you won't be picked. You can offer that service but you won't have any takers except for maybe special needs kids who need nursing care and supervision at night. You would have to have a number of them to make a living at it and that would be a hard job. Offering that for healthy normal kids is going to be very hard to make a living at.

Little secret: It's not necessary so parents won't pay for it. The kid doesn't have it anywhere else they go under any other adults care so they won't pay for it.

Now if the State requires it then you will have a lot of private relationships where the parent finds someone to do it illegally for cheap. That person of course will sleep. There's no market for watching kids sleep.

[kimerajamm]

Have you ever done a business of overnight care? I did around the clock care for thirteen/fourteen years. The cost for the care of all overnight kids is markedly lower than the cost of daytime care at least where I come from. I rarely got kids who were just 10 p to 6 a. or hours where the kid slept the entire times. Most kids who spent the night came in early in the evening. I also had kids who came for the 3-11 shift. Those kids had the same number of direct care hours as the day kids.

People who access pure sleeping hours day care do NOT want to pay anywhere near the rates for day time. They could get family or friends to do it for that kind of money. Also, people who work overnight and have small children usually wanted some day hours attached to the deal so they could go home and sleep. I never had a pure overnight kid who was paid at even my lowest rate who didn't come any of the waking hours during the day.

When it comes to caring for kids while they sleep you can believe the parents know this coming into it and only want to pay a nominal fee because they know you can sleep. They won't pick a provider who charges full rates because she is awake watching the kids sleep over a much cheaper rate where the provider sleeps while the kids sleep. They don't watch their kids sleep so they don't want to pay someone to watch their kids sleep.

If you are offering "watch them while they sleep" service for a fair compensation you won't be picked. You can offer that service but you won't have any takers except for maybe special needs kids who need nursing care and supervision at night. You would have to have a number of them to make a living at it and that would be a hard job. Offering that for healthy normal kids is going to be very hard to make a living at.

Little secret: It's not necessary so parents won't pay for it. The kid doesn't have it anywhere else they go under any other adults care so they won't pay for it.

Now if the State requires it then you will have a lot of private relationships where the parent finds someone to do it illegally for cheap. That person of course will sleep. There's no market for watching kids sleep.

i agree

[QualiTcare]

Have you ever done a business of overnight care? I did around the clock care for thirteen/fourteen years. The cost for the care of all overnight kids is markedly lower than the cost of daytime care at least where I come from. I rarely got kids who were just 10 p to 6 a. or hours where the kid slept the entire times. Most kids who spent the night came in early in the evening. I also had kids who came for the 3-11 shift. Those kids had the same number of direct care hours as the day kids.

People who access pure sleeping hours day care do NOT want to pay anywhere near the rates for day time. They could get family or friends to do it for that kind of money. Also, people who work overnight and have small children usually wanted some day hours attached to the deal so they could go home and sleep. I never had a pure overnight kid who was paid at even my lowest rate who didn't come any of the waking hours during the day.

When it comes to caring for kids while they sleep you can believe the parents know this coming into it and only want to pay a nominal fee because they know you can sleep. They won't pick a provider who charges full rates because she is awake watching the kids sleep over a much cheaper rate where the provider sleeps while the kids sleep. They don't watch their kids sleep so they don't want to pay someone to watch their kids sleep.

If you are offering "watch them while they sleep" service for a fair compensation you won't be picked. You can offer that service but you won't have any takers except for maybe special needs kids who need nursing care and supervision at night. You would have to have a number of them to make a living at it and that would be a hard job. Offering that for healthy normal kids is going to be very hard to make a living at.

Little secret: It's not necessary so parents won't pay for it. The kid doesn't have it anywhere else they go under any other adults care so they won't pay for it.

Now if the State requires it then you will have a lot of private relationships where the parent finds someone to do it illegally for cheap. That person of course will sleep. There's no market for watching kids sleep.

i agree with you that parents don't want to pay someone to watch their kids sleep when doing overnight care, BUT....

that's different than wanting supervision while the kids take a nap BECAUSE they ARE paying that higher day time rate and they expect you to be awake and supervising at all times - unless you give discount based on how long the kids sleep.

if that wasn't the case, everyone could just lie down and take a nap with the kids during naptime. we all know that would NOT go over well if a parent walked in. i can see it now...."well, you don't stay awake and watch them sleep at home, do you?" why don't you try that tmw. and let us know how it works out!

[Crystal]

FTR, my post was regarding overnight care, and IF the provider is charging the normal daily rate. I still think though, that a provider should not be allowed to work more than 12 hours continuously, it is not safe or healthy, and, of course, preference would be that there is an AWAKE provider if the child is be provided child care services. I have had children stay over night before, some just as a favor to Mom so she could get a night out, some when Mom was having a baby, some who are friends with my son. NO, I did not stay awake all night, BUT, I also have NEVER charged for a child to stay the night, and when they do stay overnight, parents have the understanding that I am NOT working and that their child will be treated as a member of my family.

Re. daytime sleeping......YES, there should, at the very least, be a monitor if the children are left alone to sleep. All of my children nap in the playroom. I am either in the playroom at my desk or in the kitchen which is adjacent to the playroom. There is never a closed door and I can either see or hear all of the children. I do not hover over them, and I do tend to light household tasks and prep snack, etc. but I am there if they need me. I think that is basically common practice, all providers have things that need to be done when the kids are down, and we should be able to attend to those things when we have that very limited downtime.....but we should always remain alert to the children.....you never know what COULD happen.

[jen]

I do charge even if I'm doing a favor...tomorrow night one of my parents is taking an older child to Justin Bieber, I'm keeping the youngest and I'm charging her my normal daily rate but no way in the world am I staying awake!

The general argument I am seeing is that because a provider is providing a service, they should be awake. That is ONE service, and here is another:

1. A warm, safe bed
2. edtime snack
3. bedtime story
4. Tuck them in safe and sound
5. wake up with them for any reason that comes up
6. Wake them in the morning and get them ready to go
7. Breakfast

I think that those are the services that most people are looking for in overnight care and what people are willing to pay for.

[GretasLittleFriends]

I was going to not respond, but I can't resist. I operate a 24/7 daycare. At least that is what I offer. That does NOT mean I have children here 24/7, with of course the exception of my own children. Hmmm... Taking a look at last week's schedule my earliest arrivals were:
Sunday no kids,
Monday 1:30pm - 10:30p,
Tuesday 9:30a - 9:15p,
Wed 12:30p - 9:30p,
Thursday 2:30p - 11:30p,
Friday Noon - midnight,
Saturday midnight - 1a then 1:30p - 11:45p.
Yesterday I had a mom call she was in a pinch. She had military obligations last night and the person her son was going to stay with had a family emergency. I took him last night starting at 7p, he spent the night, and will be leaving today about dinner time. The mother is well aware that she is paying standard rates for her little guy. It seems to me the parents in my area are thrilled that someone is willing to offer extended hours and are more than willing to pay my standard rate. I've actually had parents that offer to pay more even though I am sleeping.

If you look at Friday/Saturday you see that was actually continuous until 1a. That mother is a nurse and does not expect me to be awake with her boy either. She will usually call me when she's about 20 mins from my house to pick her son up. 9 times out of 10 I am awake though.

It doesn't matter what hours the kids are here. They are expected to rest (quiet time) between 1p and 3p and bedtime is 8p. Even if the kids are leaving at 9 or 9:30 they still lay down at 8p. I charge the same rate whether the child is here at noon or at midnight. I charge hourly. I sleep when I have overnight children, but usually don't go to bed until around 12:30a or 1a. As you can see, however, I generally don't have to get up early in the morning. When I have an overnight I usually get up about 7a and check on them, then lounge until 8 or so, unless I know they are early risers. The boy this morning was up about 8:30a.

Ok, I'm wondering how it is not safe or healthy for a provider to work more than 12 hours. Stay at home moms work usually 16+ hours a day. Military personnel work 24 hours straight, often. There are other professions that work 12-14 hours shifts each day. (Construction, transportation, nurses...) I don't see the big deal having children in one's home for 14 or more hours, especially if you already have your own children.

Just my .02

[Crystal]

Ok, I'm wondering how it is not safe or healthy for a provider to work more than 12 hours. Stay at home moms work usually 16+ hours a day. Military personnel work 24 hours straight, often. There are other professions that work 12-14 hours shifts each day. (Construction, transportation, nurses...) I don't see the big deal having children in one's home for 14 or more hours, especially if you already have your own children.

Just my .02

I think occasionally it is okay. But day in, day out is a quick way to lead to burnout, stress and fatique. It is not healthy for a provider to work 24 hours a day without time off. These things make it unsafe for children. I think the way you described your schedule is different than what I am talking about....you don't have a full house all day, and you do have time without children there. I am referring to providers who have children 24 hours/7 days a week.

Sure, a sahm, works ALL day, but generally with JUST her own children, not a houseful.

[Janet]

Round the clock daycare

I wasn't going to reply but I guess I will anyway. I operate during 1st shift and 3rd shift and I am closed on the weekends. I don't stay up all night long to watch my 3rd shift kids sleep. That would be absurd and it would be a huge disservice to my 1st shift families. My 3rd shift families would never want me to stay up all night long to watch their child sleep. I have one 3rd shift family right now (but she is out until school begins). Also, as far as having a different provider for the day shift and the evening shift, no way. I wouldn't want to pay someone to come over to my house and stay up all night long, doing nothing, while myself, my family and my 3rd shift kiddo sleeps. That's a waste of money.

[Unregistered]

Because yes the parents are PAYING for a service for another adult to WATCH and CARE for the child. Not to be sleeping. Of course you don't put a price of a child. But in this day and age of sue happy people, you can never be to cautious.

Thank you. Some of these "teachers" here are something else. When my daughter was in daycare I arrived at nap time on numerous occassions to find her teacher IN the room while the children slept. She had a tiny lamp on where she read at her desk and the rest of the room was comfortably dark and cool. I have heard of too many horror stories of kids strangling etc. while a daycare owner was in the other room during nap time. Children should be supervised for an hour nap time PERIOD IMO.

[fctjc1979]

I, too, offer care 24/7. Right at the moment, I only have one family with three girls and they only come for about 5 hours on Wednesdays because I’m pregnant, my husband is leaving for Afghanistan soon for at least a year, and we don’t really need the money at the moment. Once I have the baby and begin to feel comfortable, I will be advertising for 24/7. I don’t charge as much for third shift as I do any other shift. I also make it very clear to parents in interviews that this is a family. My family will continue to live their lives and their children will be part of what my family does while they are here. There are a few exceptions. For example, I might bring my daughter to one of my doctor’s appointments but I wouldn’t bring a daycare kid. Other than that, I treat all my dck like they are part of the family. I also don’t fill to capacity on any shift. So I don’t have a house full of kids constantly. I have my own and 1 or 2 more. Yes, I think that trying to do multiple shifts of daytime type care (projects, activities, games, etc) would be way too much. But it’s also way too much for kids. I do those things for 1st shift, a few of those things for 2nd shift but mostly self-directed play, and sleep for 3rd shift.