How to Terminate a Family....

[Happiness]

You said, "I can only do so much as a provider to try and change these habits... but unless it is going to change at home it is not going to change here..."

This is so NOT true. I have kids in my program that come from all kinds of different styles of parenting. In all honesty, I pay no attention to how a parent parents their child. I only care about how they behave while in my home. My point is that I cannot control how a parent does things outside of my home, but I CAN control the behaviors in my home.

And this is NOT true... I CAN control how behaviors are in my home but I can not CHANGE a child's behaviors if he is receiving different messages at home where that type of behavior is ACCEPTABLE... it then becomes a power struggle which is what I am in right now... The only thing that I can really CONTROL as you say is that if my efforts can not change the behavior in my home then I can CONTROL if I put up with it... or terminate it...

Whining is a learned behavior so it can be unlearned.

Yes agreed.... but you can't expect a child that whines and gets his way through bribery to not continue to push those buttons with other adults/care givers...

I mean I know that I have dck that are wonderful at the daycare... but for their parents they are off the walls... (parents tell me all the time) but you can also have the ones that are off the walls at home and daycare....

Children whine for many different reasons and YOU need to figure out what the reasons are at your house. He obviously has a need that isn't being met.

Of course there are reasons.... because he wants the toy the one child is playing with and will NOT settle for anything else... cause he wants to sit beside someone that has already decided to sit beside someone else in circle time... because he has to go down for a nap... because he doesn't do what mom says (unless he is getting something out of it) so why should he do what I ask him to do...... Most of it is because he is used to having his own way... and it has been hard for him to learn to share and that other children like their own space....

Change your environment so that he feels secure, comfortable and safe.

Security is not the issue...

Have routines and schedules so that he knows what is coming next and most of all role model for him the right way to behave.

We are very routined around here other then his outbrusts... and not to say the others are PERFECT but they are very much good role models...

Use words, support his efforts, praise him for doing what it is you want him to do rather than getting on him for doing the "wrong" things.

I am insulted that you would even assume that I have not already been doing this and that I would be "GETTING ON HIM"!!!! I leave my VENTING and RANTING for this board..... not to put out on the children....

In all honesty, it sounds like you just really do not like this child and if that is the case and you are unable to find it in yourself to help this child learn to be a big boy at your house

I am sorry but if 3 months of effort is telling you that I just don't care about this child... then I can say that you are speaking from experience...

But if you are willing to put in the time and effort it takes (and it IS hard) to help him change his "evil ways" you have to be able to only focus on his needs. You can't dwell on what mom does or doesn't do at home.

I think that after 3 months of putting in a great effort and not seeing much of a change is the reason I came HERE to get advice on how to TERM a family without getting into MUD SLINGING between the mom... which is appears I am already getting in here... "I just don't like him, Your not making a good enough effort to help him... it is not HIM it is YOU"... heck if I wanted that kind of feedback I would have just told his mother all the issues I have... but instead I was trying to be professional about it without getting into a confrontation with her.. (or anyone else for that matter)....

i do think that kids this young can learn that the rules at daycare are different from the rules at home however, that is assuming you have the patience necessary to teach them this. there is nothing wrong with saying they are not the right fit. you don't have to work with every kid on every thing and i think we can all agree that when home is very different from daycare, it can make the transition drag out for a loonnnnggg time. it may be easier to find kids that do fit into your group versus trying to force something to work that clearly is not. all i am saying is that every provider is not right for every kid and vice versa and there is no shame in saying "hey this doesn't work for me"

And that is just it... after 3 months of trying to change these behaviors and trying to make him FIT within our group I did feel like I lost the patience with him.. and then every other little thing he would do started to wear me down as well on top of the whining....

And really I could have and maybe should have just said after a month that I dont think it is going to work out... but I did give it another 2 months and it even appears like I am going to give it another month of refocusing my efforts on working with the mom and not just the child....


I thank those that have been supportive in here and have given great advice on how to talk to the mom about the issues and hoping that WE can work on them together..... I will see how she reacts to it all and then decide if I need to give a written time period or if she is willing to work with me on it and see how it goes....

Again it takes a VILLAGE to rise a child....

[Blackcat31]

And this is NOT true... I CAN control how behaviors are in my home but I can not CHANGE a child's behaviors if he is receiving different messages at home where that type of behavior is ACCEPTABLE... it then becomes a power struggle which is what I am in right now... The only thing that I can really CONTROL as you say is that if my efforts can not change the behavior in my home then I can CONTROL if I put up with it... or terminate it...

I guess we can agree to disagree then because I have several parents who are like the one you are describing and they give their children completely different messages than I give here and the children have no problem separating what the rules are here compared to the rules at home.

I think it is entirely possible to do one thing at daycare despite the millions of different things that occur at a child's home. I don't think it has to be a power struggle.

...and yes, if your efforts are not working, there is no reason why you have to put up with it and should not feel one bit bad about terming this family.

Yes agreed.... but you can't expect a child that whines and gets his way through bribery to not continue to push those buttons with other adults/care givers...

I can see how it can be this way but I guess I have just never had a power struggle happen for as long as you are saying this has been going on.....he must be one deteremined kid to have that kind of stamina.

I mean I know that I have dck that are wonderful at the daycare... but for their parents they are off the walls... (parents tell me all the time) but you can also have the ones that are off the walls at home and daycare....

I know there are kids who are off the wall at home AND at daycare, I have just not had that exerience.


Of course there are reasons.... because he wants the toy the one child is playing with and will NOT settle for anything else... cause he wants to sit beside someone that has already decided to sit beside someone else in circle time... because he has to go down for a nap... because he doesn't do what mom says (unless he is getting something out of it) so why should he do what I ask him to do...... Most of it is because he is used to having his own way... and it has been hard for him to learn to share and that other children like their own space....

Security is not the issue...

We are very routined around here other then his outbrusts... and not to say the others are PERFECT but they are very much good role models...


I am insulted that you would even assume that I have not already been doing this and that I would be "GETTING ON HIM"!!!! I leave my VENTING and RANTING for this board..... not to put out on the children....

I am sorry but if 3 months of effort is telling you that I just don't care about this child... then I can say that you are speaking from experience...

I don't understand this last statement. :confused:

I think that after 3 months of putting in a great effort and not seeing much of a change is the reason I came HERE to get advice on how to TERM a family without getting into MUD SLINGING between the mom... which is appears I am already getting in here... "I just don't like him, Your not making a good enough effort to help him... it is not HIM it is YOU"... heck if I wanted that kind of feedback I would have just told his mother all the issues I have... but instead I was trying to be professional about it without getting into a confrontation with her.. (or anyone else for that matter)....

If you were looking for responders to say it is the child's fault, I am sorry I cannot do that. He is a child. We as providers are the adults and if the child is having difficulties, it is because of the adults in his life not him...he is a child. Addressing issues with his mother should have been the first step to working together in helping change his behaviors but since you felt she would have been confrontational then I guess it is probably better that you do term this family and let them find a provider who is a better fit for her children. (I did NOT say there was anything wrong with you.) They obviously just need a provider who is less bothered by the whining and unsupportive parenting.

I implied you do not appear to like him based on YOUR own words....
you called the kids "cry babies" and you said, "well I really dont blame the other kids... when even I dont want to play with them.... " and "I guess I could go on and on tell you all about the little things that really BUG me with the kids" and "cause your kids are annoying and no one likes them in the daycare".

Those are some pretty powerful statements that say alot about how you feel about these children.

I was offering advice and my opinion not trying to be spiteful or insulting. I am sorry if you thought otherwise.

[nannyde]

I think you are at a space where you are having a hard time dealing with how spoiled these kids are. The older child is obviously more taxing so your focus is more on him. The younger one would be difficult as a stand alone problem but is most likely being shadowed by the weight of the older kids behavior.

One thing I think may help you is to tell you that all seasoned providers go through a phase where they have to come to terms with children who are very powerful in their home relationships and try to reconcile that power in child care by exacting their will with untoward behavior.

Part of dealing with it is going through the loss of the idea that the child SHOULD be different and that the power they have with their parents simply can't come into your relationship with the kid. This kid is showing you every day that he WILL vie for that power and you are falling in line with this by reacting the way you are. It's a stress that can eat you alive if you don't step back and reevaluate what you can and can't manage and then ACT on that evaluation.

The thing you haven't tried yet is to lay the hammer down on both the Mom and the kid. You have nothing to loose by setting some strict behavior expectations on both the kids and the parents.

Tell the Mom the truth. Tell her that he is monopolizing your entire day with his refusal to go play and be an equal member in the group. Tell her that he wants you to react to him the way she does and you won't do that. He needs to do what you tell him to do and accept it without fussing. He needs to behave fairly with the other kids. He needs to take the amount of time that is proportional to what she is paying.

Be SPECIFIC and tell her that he is behaving in a way that requires you to one to one him and that if this continues you will either have to raise her rates and hire an assistant just for him or she will need to find different care.

She will not choose to pay more and she will most likely not do a single thing different at home. What she will do is get the first inkling that she and the child need serious help. It may take five "you's" to get this across to her and by the time she starts to GET it you won't be making any money off of them. Your only obligation to them is to give them the first of many refusals to allow him to behave like this around you.

Soon the school will tell him.. the teachers... his before and after school care providers.. everywhere he goes they will tell her until she is forced to get help. Her acceptance of the results of her parenting and his delays will only come to her in individual reactions.. in her dealing with it as one person after another says "no" to them both.

Your role in this is just to be ONE of the ones to say no.

With the kid... try not to take his behavior personally. He didn't spoil himself. He is a product of his environment and he is doing what HE knows works. Show him it doesn't work at all ever in your house. If you have to declare war on the whining and control then DO it. Be STERN with him and follow through. If he can't be civil with you and the kids then he has to be on his own.

When he is being sweet and reasonable love him up. SHOW him how you want him to be. SHOW him how you want him to talk. Stick with every single prompt and don't QUIT until he does what you want him to do.

When he acts up around the Mom at drop off and pick up TELL her you don't like that. Start the second he arrives and give him the stink eye when he starts and DISCIPLINE him in front of the Mom. Tell HER what you want and expect it when she is there too.

If you don't have the energy to take them all on then give notice and let them be on their way. You have made a critical error in not telling her what he is doing in your home that doesn't work so don't be surprised if her reaction to this is a startle response and then anger.

If you want help in how to do this with as little fuss and muss as possible then your only way out is to just tell her you are sizing down or making changes and that you can no longer provide services. She will bargain with you for a bit and then most likely be upset. You have little to no chance of her being cool with it and this not getting tense before they go.

If you want to make an impact on them then tell them the truth and require the changes. She won't change but she WILL take your truth with her into their future.

[MarinaVanessa]

And this is NOT true... I CAN control how behaviors are in my home but I can not CHANGE a child's behaviors if he is receiving different messages at home where that type of behavior is ACCEPTABLE... it then becomes a power struggle which is what I am in right now... The only thing that I can really CONTROL as you say is that if my efforts can not change the behavior in my home then I can CONTROL if I put up with it... or terminate it...

I'd just like to chime in and say that it can be done. The kids that I have are all different with me than they are at home with their parents. I don't condone "whining" or crying for things. If they cry or whine at all for whatever reason they go to the "crying corner" which is a little quiet corner where they can sit at until they stop whining or crying. I always tell them that they can cry as much as they want to but crying is only allowed in that area. It's an additional "center" that we have here. Because they know that whining and crying doesn't bother me and will not stop the current activity or get them an closer to what they are trying to accomplish, they all eventually learn that whining and "being a cry-baby" doesn't work and eventually they stop doing it here. Even my 1 year-olds have learned better and I'm currently "guiding" my own 10 mo.

When we go out on walks ... they ALL behave, when they play with the toys ... they ALL behave, when they want something ... they ALL behave and use their words (as well as they can vocalize them) to tell me what they want. If they whine, complain, tattle, cry or use their words and voice in any other way than what is expected, they don't get what they want. It's by no means simple. It takes a lot of effort, a lot of persistance, a lot of consistency and a deaf-ear to see improvements but it can be done. The key is to follow though each and every time and never lose your cool.

I have a 2yo dcb that cried the entire day of his birthday party this past July ... the entire day. He cries so much that he makes himself cough and eventually vomit. He does it at the gym daycare (friends of ours take their kids there too), he does it at the curch nursery (my SIL volunteers) and he does it at home (I've seen it). I can only assume that he does it in other placed also. He does NOT do it here. At the gym and at church their protocol is to simply call the parent and have them pick the child up (which is what the child wants ... to be with mommy or daddy) and at home he is given every whim and desire. Not here buddy, sorry . Only the kids that use good manners get the special treat here and that does not include crying or whining. It does work, trust me. Anyone here can tell you that their little angel DCK's act like little hellions once mommy and daddy show up.

By all means don't take it negatively, we're here to help afterall. We're here for you to give you insight, advice and ideas. Welcome to the forum BTW. I hope you come to enjoy the forum as much as I do. This is the only forum that I participate in and I absolutely LOVE it here .