Advice for Stubborn (?) 3 Yr old

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

It seems like I'm always posting about one child or another that won't listen I'll get one back on track and then another one has to try it, and then another. Sometimes 2-3 of them at once. The problem this time is a child 3 yrs and 4 months old. She just started here about 3 months ago. She's really quiet, listened fairly well all along (she'd have times of refusing to do as asked, but if told again in a really firm voice she'd eventually do it. And if we had to sit her in time-out it'd really upset her, so just the "threat" of needing a time-out would get her to shape up quickly). But now she just doesn't comply when asked to do ANYthing. Firm voice doesn't go anywhere. Time-outs don't work anymore. I always make sure I consistantly follow through with having her do whatever she was supposed to (like not climbing the slide. I can tell her "slide down, we don't climb the slide", or "use the ladder", until I'm blue in the face, but she continues to climb until I have to physically stop her and make her slide back down. That's when I sit her in a chair and don't let her play for a little while since she couldn't follow the rules). She'll continue doing what she wants with this stubborn look on her face. I know a lot of people say to redirect them for something like that, but when she gets that stubborn look on her face, and just goes back to it a couple minutes later over and over and over again, I KNOW redirection isn't going to work. And when she keeps saying "okay" really sweetly when told to do something (like "let's clean up our blocks"), but never does it until I physically make her (take her hand and walk her over to the blocks and repeat the direction, or physically have to take her hand and have her pick the block up, if she won't on her own) I don't know how to respond. It's that quiet "sweet" disobedience that I don't get. I think she needs an actual consequence, but besides time out for not listening, what can I do? I am always consistant with her and always end her stubborn round with her having to do whatever she was told to do to start with. But it's not making any difference yet. She just seems to be getting more stubborn. But if I give her a direction and then walk away like I just expect her to do it, she goes off and plays something else (or if she was told to stop doing something, she continues doing it), so walking away doesn't work either. I feel like I've tried everything with her (and everything everyone on here has advised before). She's not aggressive (thank goodness! One 3 yr old going through that is enough).

I do wonder if she might be delayed a little behind the others her age (like when she talks she's really difficult to understand, and if you ask her something she doesn't seem to know when to say no or yes. Side note: one time I heard her mom ask her if "the kids were nice to her today". Of course she said "no". But the children had been fine all day and no one had even made her mad that I was aware. A school ager could yell at her or be too rough with her, and she'll get all upset and cry, but if they asked, "Did I yell at you?" she'd say no). But another time when they had not yelled at her they could ask her if they did, and she'll say yes). She also doesn't seem to know how to answer an open ended question. Like during circle time I'll ask her a qurestion and she answers with something that makes absolutely no sense to what I asked. Could it be that she's not understanding what she's supposed to do? If that's it, though, why did she do it before? Like before, I might have had to get more firm and tell her to go back to her chair (if she's walking around while eating, for example), she'd finally do it, but now she won't. I always have to walk over to her, take her hand, and walk her to the table (and she resists that). Then as soon as I get her sat down and walk away to get someone more food or whatever, she gets up again and I have to repeat the whole thing over again.I'm just afraid of over using time-outs since she doesn't need "calmed down" or isn't being agressive. It seems silly to me to use time-out for not listening, but what other consequnce could there be for not listening? What is your input on this, if she was a child in your care?

[Kaddidle Care]

Are you explaining to her when she's in a time out WHY she is in a time out?

The slide climbing is a big one at our Center with some children. When I put them in a time out I ask them "Do you know why you are in a time out?" and if they don't know I explain that "the reason we have rules is to keep you safe. Up the stairs and Down the slide prevents feet from hitting faces and keeps you from getting booboos. We don't want anyone getting booboos."

Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. :: Eventually they get it.

I've also found that a "Caught being good" chart helps. "Ooooh Sally just picked up the blocks right when I asked her to! Sally gets a Clean up star!" The person with the most stars/stickers gets a prize of sorts. The "prize" can be Line Leader for the day or week. A little job they like to do.

The odd answers.. not sure what to tell you on that.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Are you explaining to her when she's in a time out WHY she is in a time out?

The slide climbing is a big one at our Center with some children. When I put them in a time out I ask them "Do you know why you are in a time out?" and if they don't know I explain that "the reason we have rules is to keep you safe. Up the stairs and Down the slide prevents feet from hitting faces and keeps you from getting booboos. We don't want anyone getting booboos."

Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. :: Eventually they get it.

I've also found that a "Caught being good" chart helps. "Ooooh Sally just picked up the blocks right when I asked her to! Sally gets a Clean up star!" The person with the most stars/stickers gets a prize of sorts. The "prize" can be Line Leader for the day or week. A little job they like to do.

The odd answers.. not sure what to tell you on that.

I really like the way you phrase the slide thing with your children. I'm going to try explaining it that way. I always say, "You could get hurt climbing the slide." But the word "hurt" doesn't phase them. Maybe using the word Booboo, will. They always use that word when they have a "booboo" to show me. So you think a time-out for climbing the slide is okay? I just don't have any ideas for anything else since redirection alone is pointless. Do you do an automatic time out just as soon as a child starts climbing, or do you remind them one time, and then do time-out? Do you stand there beside them until you know they're going to get down, or do you walk away, as if you just expect them to do the right thing without you hovering over them? I think I hover too much, maybe. But when I walk away, they don't stop doing what they shouldn't be, or do whatever I told them to do.
Just looking for a different way of doing things because maybe I'm doing things wrong. I'm usually the one who enforces rules and implements discipline(because I have the most hands on care of the children), but the last few weeks, they've started yelling at me when asked to do/not do something, and plain ignoring what I tell them. It seems I'm frustrating them more than gaining their respect and compliance lately. Doesn't help that my voice doesn't carry, or get very loud.
Anyway, thanks for the response, Kaddidle care!
Oh, yeah, one more question. On the "caught being good" sticker, when a child comes up to you saying, "I just did x, do I get a sticker?" What do you say? I was desperate for something that would work with a 3 yr old potty training (she didn't want to be trained), so started a potty chart and each time she went potty I put a sticker on her chart. The others then started asking for their star everytime they went potty (the ones who've been potty trained for a while). Some are pretty stubborn, and manipulative, and I wouldn't have put it past them to purposely "regress" and go back to "accidents" so they could get a potty training star if I had told them it was just for x because she was being potty trained. So just curious if you give stars when they announce to you what they did. Some of mine would go on a spree doing everything they could think of good to get a star (within just a few minutes time), then after they have a whole lot accumulated in just a few min time, they'd quit trying since they already had more than anyone else (or after I ran out of stickers ). Would really like to know more on this "caught being good" idea, because it just might work if I have all the details worked out and know what to do when it doesn't quite go the way I planned. They are too smart for me!

[Kaddidle Care]

So you think a time-out for climbing the slide is okay? I just don't have any ideas for anything else since redirection alone is pointless. Do you do an automatic time out just as soon as a child starts climbing, or do you remind them one time, and then do time-out?

It depends on the child. New children get a few more chances to make mistakes - they are just learning the rules. I try to give the strike 1,2,3 for them but I do stand by the slide to make sure they aren't going to get hurt.

Those that have been here for a while and know the rules get less chances. I will give a time out/sit out and a talking to like I mentioned above. If they continue after that they loose the privilege of playing on that item for that session.

Do you stand there beside them until you know they're going to get down, or do you walk away, as if you just expect them to do the right thing without you hovering over them? I think I hover too much, maybe. But when I walk away, they don't stop doing what they shouldn't be, or do whatever I told them to do.

It varies depending on the personality of the child. Most will look your way to see if you are watching and I give them the raised eyebrow look or wag my finger and say "Yes, I'm watching." ::

Just looking for a different way of doing things because maybe I'm doing things wrong. I'm usually the one who enforces rules and implements discipline(because I have the most hands on care of the children), but the last few weeks, they've started yelling at me when asked to do/not do something, and plain ignoring what I tell them. It seems I'm frustrating them more than gaining their respect and compliance lately. Doesn't help that my voice doesn't carry, or get very loud.

I have to ask - why are you the only one enforcing the rules? This is part of the problem. All Teachers/Caregivers need to be on the same page just as Parents need to be on the same page or the children will play games with who or what they listen to.

Anyway, thanks for the response, Kaddidle care!
Oh, yeah, one more question. On the "caught being good" sticker, when a child comes up to you saying, "I just did x, do I get a sticker?" What do you say?

I have to see it with my own eyes. Stickers have to be earned.

I was desperate for something that would work with a 3 yr old potty training (she didn't want to be trained), so started a potty chart and each time she went potty I put a sticker on her chart. The others then started asking for their star everytime they went potty (the ones who've been potty trained for a while).

This is a bit of a problem - I've had this happen with twins where one was potty trained and the other wasn't. I just told her we wanted to encourage her sister to do well "just like you!" Then try to catch them being good with something else - quick!

If the whole bunch get on the ball with doing something good, then the whole class gets something special - perhaps a special treat at snack or bubbles at recess.

It's just getting them to wrap their heads around doing something good as opposed to something naughty.

We don't do this all the time - but it works for a while.

[Kaddidle Care]

Why is no one else responding to this thread? :confused: I'm curious as to how others deal with this.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Thank you Kaddidle Care for your responses. I guess I'm not going to get any others... But your's was helpful I'm not the only one enforcing the rules, just the main one when I'm there, since I'm the preschool teacher (or daycare assistant. whichever it is). I believe my place is to make the owner's job easier while I'm there, and let her go to the other room and get paperwork done, fix snacks/meals, return/make phone calls that she can't make when no one else is around to watch the children, etc. while I take over the care of the children for the most part. Plus it usually works out that I notice a rule breaker first (I'm very consistant, and if someone is doing something outside of the established rules, I usually notice first thing, while the owner is more flexible, and may not notice as quickly. Although there's a lot of times she sees what's going on before I see it. The benefit of two sets of eyes. I usually have to follow through with the time-outs or consequences, though, since she's so busy with other things, and may get side-tracked (parent calls, potential family calls, lunch has to be finished, paperwork has to be filled out, etc). Sorry if it sounded like I was the ONLY one enforcing the rules. Again, thanks for your replies!