Need Some Behavior Advice

[WImom]

I have a dcg that is VERY difiant - .2.5y old.

examples from today:
Wants to do EVEYTHING her way and when she wants to. When it's time to potty she doesn't want to go and will throw a huge tantrum. Then when someone else is in the potty (since I'm ignoring her tantrum) she wants to go now.

She was snack helper today. Doesn't want to be snack helper. So she just stands there waiting for me to let her have a different job. I just say well I'll just hand out snack then, no problem, you can be a different job tomorrow. Well of course now she want to be the helper.

circle time - didn't want to put her name up on whos here today board. Fine. Well of course in the middle of storytime she had to intruppt the story to say she wanted to now.

A nap a child had to go potty so of course now she did when she had just went minutes ago. I flushed the toliet when she was down and she wanted to do it and I said she can flush next time. Well then she had a tantrum and wouldn't get her pants on and wash her hands so I counted to three and told her I'd do it if I got to three. I did it and fought with her for 5 minutes to get her underwear and pants on. Of course she took the pants right off so she's on her mat in her underwear. I'm not keeping the kids up anymore for this.

This goes on and on all day and I know she's this way at home too. I think they might just give in though. She also an only child between two parents that share custody.

I have tried the one-two-three with her consistantly but it doesn't work. I get to three EVERYTIME. I also try choices but most of the time that doesn't work either. Please help, it's really disrupting our day!

[Solandia]

There is a couple different directions to go with this...1.could be that it is a control thing, because of the two different households, that will get better in time...2.could be a defiant thing, and going through the testing boundries and will even out after you remain consistent for a while.

3. could be a bit trickier, as it has to do with more of core of the child, and will not get better with standard discipline. 1/2/3 magic is a joke for those few kids. Love & logic a bit better, but not enough. If you have ever read The Explosive Child, that was/is my oldest dd. To a tee. In hindsight, the issues were noticable at 2-3yo, but kept in check by having a rigid schedule, super strict rules (no warnings, no exceptions, period), and a no-sugar diet. Behaviors were an all time high at 5-7yo. She wanted my one-on-one attention for everything all.the.time. and have her way all.the.time, it was the way she coped with her world. What was normal preschool behavior escalated as she got older...most kids "get' consequences, she didn't get it on her own. Literally, she could not process a consequence while angry. It meant nothing until after she was calm & reasonable, and by then the tantrums/screaming had nothing to do with the original issues. Typical discipline that works for 99% of kids, was laughable. We were literally a step away from taking her in to a psychiatrist to get her medicated, it was sooo bad. Bccording to dd's pediatrician we were just bad parents/crappy parenting, or that we were lying about how consistent we were. Dd tried to turn EVERYTHING(even positive things) into a power struggle. Dh and I are very good at spotting a possible power struggle from a mile away, and taking the power out of it.

As we explicitly taught her coping strategies, behaviors got better. She still has a tendancy to escalate situations, but i cant tell if it is her or just that she is 12yo with the middle school drama.

[WImom]

Thanks. Yeah, I've had her since May and we've had ups and downs with this but it's gotten worse lately. I'll have to check out this book since I myself have a very stubborn 6y old but this 2.5y seems even worse then her (but maybe I just blocked that age out...).

[Sugar Magnolia]

Yikes. Sounds like a case of "the world revolves around me." The parents are split, so that explains a lot. I have no real advice except to be consistent and fair. She doesn't want to snack help? Ok, go sit down, no second chances. I wouldn't do the count to 3 thing, unless getting a tantrum is in full swing and time-out happens on 3. And honestly, I'd only do a time out if a major tantrum was involved. My policy: "Children who are physically or emotionally out of control will be removed from the group until they regain their composure." I don't think t.o is appropriate for not listening or simply being uncooperative. Basically, you have to hit or hurt someone or be screaming and kicking the floor to go to time out. T.O is rare around here, its a pretty big deal if someone has to go to T.O.
Really, just be consistent and don't let her run your daycare. She needs from you what she is lacking at home: boundries!

[Hunni Bee]

I have a dcg that is VERY difiant - .2.5y old.

examples from today:
Wants to do EVEYTHING her way and when she wants to. When it's time to potty she doesn't want to go and will throw a huge tantrum. Then when someone else is in the potty (since I'm ignoring her tantrum) she wants to go now.

She was snack helper today. Doesn't want to be snack helper. So she just stands there waiting for me to let her have a different job. I just say well I'll just hand out snack then, no problem, you can be a different job tomorrow. Well of course now she want to be the helper.

circle time - didn't want to put her name up on whos here today board. Fine. Well of course in the middle of storytime she had to intruppt the story to say she wanted to now.

A nap a child had to go potty so of course now she did when she had just went minutes ago. I flushed the toliet when she was down and she wanted to do it and I said she can flush next time. Well then she had a tantrum and wouldn't get her pants on and wash her hands so I counted to three and told her I'd do it if I got to three. I did it and fought with her for 5 minutes to get her underwear and pants on. Of course she took the pants right off so she's on her mat in her underwear. I'm not keeping the kids up anymore for this.

This goes on and on all day and I know she's this way at home too. I think they might just give in though. She also an only child between two parents that share custody.

I have tried the one-two-three with her consistantly but it doesn't work. I get to three EVERYTIME. I also try choices but most of the time that doesn't work either. Please help, it's really disrupting our day!

Sounds EXACTLY like one of my now 4 year olds. He did (and still does sometimes) this all day...

M--, do you want milk? No!! As soon as you put the milk away, he's crying because he didn't get any.

If she doesn't want/accept/do the choices you give her after asking her twice, move on. When she comes back 2 minutes later, demanding what she just turned down...tell her she'll get another chance to choose tomorrow/later/whenever...and leave it alone. If its something she absolutely has to do, choose it for her and "help" her do it.

Its the only thing that works with my boy...she may tantrum or cry at first, but eventually she'll understand that she gets the same choices as everyone else and has to choose when everyone else does.

[Blackcat31]

IME, this sounds like very typical 2 year old behavior. The world DOES revolve around them. That is how they learn what changes for them and what changes because of them. Two completely different but essential lessons.

You as the provider need to set up the environment so that she can exercise her right to choose and her need to have control. "Do you want to be snack helper or book holder?" She needs choices that foster her independence but still get the results that you want. Telling her she can do something next time means zero to her as she has no real idea what next time is as her world is right here and now.

The exsmples you gave show that she is being allowed to enter into power struggles with you and odds are she is loving every minute of it as it is gaining her attention, negative or positive doesn't really matter since it is all the same to little kids.

Kids this age just need firm guidance with easy to follow rules, appropriate choices and zero feedback for "unsavory behaviors".

[grandmom]

Stop counting to three. Ask her to do something and if she doesn't do it, you do it - immediately. Or let someone else. Do not let her interrupt story time. Do not give in. Ever. Oh, sorry, I let someone else do it.

[SilverSabre25]

IME, this sounds like very typical 2 year old behavior. The world DOES revolve around them. That is how they learn what changes for them and what changes because of them. Two completely different but essential lessons.

You as the provider need to set up the environment so that she can exercise her right to choose and her need to have control. "Do you want to be snack helper or book holder?" She needs choices that foster her independence but still get the results that you want. Telling her she can do something next time means zero to her as she has no real idea what next time is as her world is right here and now.

The exsmples you gave show that she is being allowed to enter into power struggles with you and odds are she is loving every minute of it as it is gaining her attention, negative or positive doesn't really matter since it is all the same to little kids.

Kids this age just need firm guidance with easy to follow rules, appropriate choices and zero feedback for "unsavory behaviors".

Stop counting to three. Ask her to do something and if she doesn't do it, you do it - immediately. Or let someone else. Do not let her interrupt story time. Do not give in. Ever. Oh, sorry, I let someone else do it.

Both of these.

You offer her two choices (ones that are equally satisfactory to you so you really don't care what she picks) and if/when she says "NO!" you calmly turn and let someone else do it.

You offer her a chance to (use the potty, put her name up, choose a song, whatever) and she says "NO!", you shrug and say happily, "Okay!" and move on. When she changes her mind and wants to anyway, you calmly tell her, "You chose not to. You need to wait," and then you ignore her tantrum. As soon as you can, you let her do whatever it was (use the potty= make her wait until last; put her name up= wait until the end of circle time). Even if she's still tantruming, you can ignore the tantrum and tell her (loudly enough to hear over the tantrum), "Okay Susie! Now you can [potty, name, etc]!" and be really happy about it. That teaches her several things: 1. that tantrums get no attention, 2. That the world continues in spite of her, 3. That later DOES come.

Good luck! The first few days of any new regime are tough, but it'll be worth it!

[KBCsMommy]

OMG!!! I think we have the same child!! I have dcb the same age who does the EXACT same thing!!
Today it was " Don't want cereal" Okay throw it away! Dcb throws it in the trash....IMMEDIATELY screams " I want cereal, I want cereal"...
Too bad so sad is what I thought!! But I told him he had to wait until snack time to eat.
Its a total control thing. If you let them do what they want on their terms it will keep on happening. Give them choices, do the 1 2 3, you are still giving them control over what THEY want.
The choice I usually give my dcb is what he needs to do(put your shoes on) or time a time out or he misses his chance altogether (didnt put your name on the board Im sorry you have to wait until tomorrow to put it up- you had your chance you refused you can wait until the next time).

I always feel bad about it. And Mondays are always the worst. But every week it gets a little better. DCB knows he cant do what he wants when he wants it...everything is NOT on his terms...And he eventually gives up and starts doing what hes supposed to do!

[daycare]

I agree with some of the others. Offer two options. A or B. Give her the power to decide and let her think she is in control using this method. But really you are still getting them to do what you want by the choices you offer.

Example do you want to put your pants on like a big girl? Or do you want me to put your pants on for you? No other choices. If they don't decide by the time you count to 10 in your head, not out loud, then you ask again and if no reply you say ok well you didn't make a big girl decision so I am going to put your pants on you and you do it right away. Even if they are kicking and screaming.


If needed, sometimes I walk away from the situation before giving options to let them cry it out and settle down a bit. I will then go back and try again. Just know this DON"T ever give in. Once you do, you have taught the child that she/he can negotiate. If you let it happen once, they will try to let it happen again. 2 choices always and you follow through. Always give real consequences. I hear people say silly stuff like if you don't put your shoes on I am going to throw them away. Are you really going to throw the shoes away? NO! Give them a really consequence like: If you choose not to put your toys away, then you won't be allowed to play with that toy any more for the rest of the day. Something that you can easily follow through with.

2-3 is a hard age as they are really trying to learn to discover how to cope with their emotions along with tons of other things....

best of luck to you!!

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Advice for stubborn(?) 3 yr old

It seems like I'm always posting about one child or another that won't listen I'll get one back on track and then another one has to try it, and then another. Sometimes 2-3 of them at once. The problem this time is a child 3 yrs and 4 months old. She just started about 3 months ago. She's really quiet, listened fairly well all along (she'd have times of refusing to do as asked, but if told again in a really firm voice she'd eventually do it. And if we had to sit her in time-out it'd really upset her, so just the "threat" of needing a time-out would get her to shape up quickly). But now she just doesn't comply when asked to do ANYthing. Firm voice doesn't go anywhere. Time-outs don't work anymore. I always make sure I consistantly follow through with having her do whatever she was supposed to (like not climbing the slide. I can tell her "slide down, we don't climb the slide", or "use the ladder", until I'm blue in the face, but she continues to climb until I have to physically stop her and make her slide back down. That's when I sit her in a chair and don't let her play for a little while since she couldn't follow the rules). She'll continue doing what she wants with this stubborn look on her face. I know a lot of people say to redirect them for something like that, but when she gets that stubborn look on her face, and just goes back to it a couple minutes later over and over and over again, I KNOW redirection isn't going to work. And when she keeps saying "okay" really sweetly when told to do something (like "let's clean up our blocks"), but never does it until I physically make her (take her hand and walk her over to the blocks and repeat the direction, or physically have to take her hand and have her pick the block up, if she won't on her own) I don't know how to respond. It's that quiet "sweet" disobedience that I don't get. I think she needs an actual consequence, but besides time out for not listening, what can I do? I am always consistant with her and always end her stubborn round with her having to do whatever she was told to do to start with. But it's not making any difference yet. She just seems to be getting more stubborn. But if I give her a direction and then walk away like I just expect her to do it, she goes off and plays something else (or if she was told to stop doing something, she continues doing it), so walking away doesn't work either. I feel like I've tried everything with her (and everything everyone on here has advised before). She's not aggressive (thank goodness! One 3 yr old going through that is enough).
I do wonder if she might be delayed a little behind the others her age (like when she talks she's really difficult to understand, and if you ask her something she doesn't seem to know when to say no or yes. Side note: one time I heard her mom ask her if "the kids were nice to her today". Of course she said "no". But the kids had been fine all day and no one had even made her mad that I was aware. A school ager could yell at her or be too rough with her, and she'll get all upset and cry, but if they asked, "Did I yell at you?" she'd say no). But another time when they had not yelled at her they could ask her if they did, and she'll say yes). She also doesn't seem to know how to answer an open ended question. Like during circle time I'll ask her a qurestion and she answers with something that makes absolutely no sense to what I asked. Could it be that she's not understanding what she's supposed to do? If that's it, though, why did she do it before? Like before, I might have had to get more firm and tell her to go back to her chair (if she's walking around while eating, for example), she'd finally do it, but now she won't. I always have to walk over to her, take her hand, and walk her to the table (and she resists that). Then as soon as I get her sat down and walk away to get someone more food or whatever, she gets up again and I have to repeat the whole thing over again.I'm just afraid of over using time-outs since she doesn't need "calmed down" or isn't being agressive. It seems silly to me to use time-out for not listening, but what other consequnce could there be for not listening? What is your input on this, if she was a child in your care?

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Sorry about that post. I meant to start a new thread. Guess I got in a hurry and posted "reply" instead of "new thread". I'll start a new thread now... again, sorry I highjacked this one!