Termination Gone Wrong

[mac60]

It is my understanding that in some states, while you are waiting months and months and sometimes 1 to 2 years to get licensed or registered, you can care for children legally because you are in the process. Because sometimes the county/gov't just drags their ass and do not do things in a timely manner. Not everyone can wait the county out for months and years before they bring in an income.

[familyschoolcare]

And the people WHO do, are always the unregistered ones

Don't feed the trolls

I had not notice that I will have to pay more attention

[Blackcat31]

OP~ You broke the law. period. It really doesn't matter what your reasons were. If providing childcare for x amount of children without a license is illegal then you will be faced with the possiblity of being punished. It doesn't matter how safe or unsafe you were being. It doesn't matter how well you did or didn't care for the children. If you were operating illegally, then it was against the law. Why is this part so hard to understand?

Say you took all the required driving courses and tests but just didn't go get your actual drivers license with your photo and paid the fee to do so and still drove a car. If you got pulled over, you would get a ticket for driving without a license. Doesn't matter how safe or knowledgeable you were/are. It is illegal.

I also waited almost 6 months to get my license. I didn't start providing care for anyone until I actually got my license I had my whole (separate) house ready and continued to pay the mortgage and bills there even without any kids. Why? Because I wasn't willing to break the law!

In order to feed my own children I took another job knowing full well I would quit as soon as my daycare license arrived. I did what I needed to do to pay my bills and feed my kids WIHTOUT being illegal.

As for the mom who turned you in, it happens. Licensed or not, you will run into your fair share of parents who will report you for whatever they feel when termed. It happens. licensed or not. This parent was just the one who let the cat out of the bag. If you hadn't been operating illegally, this would have been a completely different scenario.

IMPO, if you were willing to break the law because you felt validated enough to do so, it says alot about your character in general.

[dEHmom]

with regards to the comment about unlicensed being bad, unsafe or whatever else was stated.

Being unlicensed doesn't mean you'll get the bad parents. But being unlicensed in a state where you are required to be licensed, quite possibly could. They know full well that a license is required and choose to put their child in an illegal daycare, that tells me bad parents. Knowing that you will be getting your licensed anytime might change that opinion a little bit.

I am sorry to hear that you are going through this op, and I hope it all works out well for you. I am unlicensed, but I am not required to be licensed. I also have great parents.

As for how bad it will be when/if she calls licensing, I cannot offer advice on that as I do not know. Hopefully the things she said were just threats in an attempt to get back at you. She broke your rules, she is the lesser of the 2 by acting so immaturely. It's always better and will always get you farther to remain calm, and mature, and she did not do that. I wish you well.

[Sally]

I hope you can ignore some of the negative responses, there are licensed providers that are jealous of the other ones; licensed or not. Believe me, you will get those parents REGARDLESS of the type of daycare you run. In fact, it boils down to taking good precautions and SCREENING them throughly. I've done this many many years, but I look them up on every network available to me. Facebook, PPL search, county records ect. before I even do the interview. After that, go by your instincts and if they seem like they are going to be trouble don't pick them up because it won't be worth it. If you are really strict about about screening them, that will make all the difference.

At this point just chalk it up to one of those learning experiences. Either way your fine, because you could end up deciding to watch a few kids privately. But Good luck and hang in there!

[Unregistered]

If I understand you correctly you are saying I deserved to have someone storm into my home with my own children here and have them act the way they did because I offered care for her child with out a license. That suggests that by having a license your childcare is some how safer, better. What does a license really do? They don't monitor your care. They don't monitor your contracts or your menu's or your schedules. My neighbor has had a licensed daycare for 5 years and they just came to her house for the first time a month ago they were there for one hour. They checked to make sure she wasn't over capacity, that she had proper paper work. That was it. How does that have anything to do with the types of parents you get.

I was hoping for more help on how to handle scary dcm's & dcd's but I can see I am only going to be made to feel less than. Really nice forum.

Oh ya alot of people on this forum think they are better then everyone else. She can report you all she wants alls you have to say is the children you are watching you are not getting paid for and there is NOTHING they can do at all.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Sally, I think if you read the replies closely, you will find that just about no one was saying unlicensed is "bad", as long as your state says you are not required to be licensed. Illegal is not the same as unlicensed, and the OP admitted it was, in fact, illegal in her state. We are a supportive group, but its hard to support illegal. Many are unlicensed, and that's just fine. No one would imply that unlicensed providers are bad providers. But Tree is becoming legal, and there was widespread support for her doing that.

[daycare]

Sally, I think if you read the replies closely, you will find that just about no one was saying unlicensed is "bad", as long as your state says you are not required to be licensed. Illegal is not the same as unlicensed, and the OP admitted it was, in fact, illegal in her state. We are a supportive group, but its hard to support illegal. Many are unlicensed, and that's just fine. No one would imply that unlicensed providers are bad providers. But Tree is becoming legal, and there was widespread support for her doing that.

That was a great way to word it.


The thing is that you were doing something that is against the law. In California, they make it very clear in the orientation what the consequences are should you not follow the rules. They even tell you that you cannot operate without a License.
Usually you won't get good quality people who are willing to participate in breaking the law. In the state of California, you can only care for one family at a time without having a proper lic.

I don't think anyone meant that you get bad people when you don't have a lic. I think they just meant that if you are doing something illegal and you get people to participate in an illegal activity/business you are not going to get the best of quality of people in it. I really am sorry to hear this and hope that things don’t get blown out of proportion by this mother.
Best of luck to you….

[MyAngels]

Oh ya alot of people on this forum think they are better then everyone else. She can report you all she wants alls you have to say is the children you are watching you are not getting paid for and there is NOTHING they can do at all.

So you would have her compound the problem by not only lying herself, but have her ask her current daycare parents to lie as well? That's bad advice, no matter how you look at it.

[Cat Herder]

My take on it...

Illegal Daycare = Parents who have no/less moral/ethical problems with Illegal activities and like/need the lower rates this offers. The actual quality of care varies.

Unlicensed Daycare = People who have checked out the rules/regs and LIKE the lower ratios, less Government interference and lower rates this offers. The actual quality of care varies.

Licensed Daycare = People who know they will pay more but will have more government oversight, stricter standards, random inspections and more resources available. The actual quality of care varies.

The main point, I guess, is that OP gambled and lost this hand. I do hope it does not stop her from getting her license...it very well may.

[Sally]

I do not agree with anyone deserving this! I also don't agree that being unlicensed means you are setting yourself up to take on horrible clients like this. I was not licensed when I first started my daycare and had excellent and considerate families. One family had both parents whom were doctors and they scrutinized everything, but were extremely happy! The interesting thing was that many parents didn't even care. They knew that being licensed didn't really ensure the quality of care their child was receiving. Look how many states don't even require a license for a certain number of kids in a person's care! I'm not saying its okay to break the law and not follow regulations, but I also don't think anyone who is merely waiting to get things finalized has crossed the line and deserves this type of feedback.

I can only speak for myself but I get a lot of kids that come from TT, KC, ect. The parents realize that there are too many kids and they are not being watched properly. Whereas I work with a small group, and have good references. So there are many parents that realize having a license does not make a good provider.

I'm legal but could care a less if someone babysits in a state that requires a license. Thats too much government control, and I believe its more to do with getting their taxes than protecting children. Especially in CA.

[Crystal]

Tree......relax and try not to worry too much.

I am in California. I am very familiar with the regulations and how licensing operates, so I am going to share what I know with you.

It is likely you will get a visit from licensing. Licening is required to investigate any allegation within 72 hours for non-emergency and 36 for emergency violation. They are going to tell you that you have to stop caring for the children immediately, until you are licensed. If you comply with that, they will not likely fine you and you will still have your licensing inspection. It is in your best interest to not care for the children any longer, until you have your license. I would inform the parents of the children enrolled today, you may lose them....but if they value your services they will likely find an alternate person to care for their children temporarily. If you meet all licensing regs on the day of your inspection for licensure, you can begin caring for children immediately.....you don't have to wait for your license to come in the mail. So, your parents would only need to find care for the next two weeks.

Now, all of that applies UNLESS the children you are caring for right now do not attend together. If you have two families enrolled and the children from family one attend three part time days and the child from family two attend two OTHER part time days, then that is okay.

If that is the case, you'll need to show your contracts to licensing when they show up to investigate. The contracts should list the days and times the children are in care.

Be honest and tell them that you were caring for the child from the other family as well, but you terminated services for that family which resulted in you being in compliance.

[sharlan]

Oh ya alot of people on this forum think they are better then everyone else. She can report you all she wants alls you have to say is the children you are watching you are not getting paid for and there is NOTHING they can do at all.

WOW! This is the best advice I've seen yet, NOT! Lying to DSS, under any circumstances, is not a good idea.

I don't really think that anybody thinks they're better than everyone else. We all have different life experiences that make us on way or another. Everyone has a different way of explaining themselves. I'm "wordy" at times, others are more factual, cut and dried.

[Michelle]

You will be fined $200 every day that you had more than one family in care.
So, just tell them you operated illegally only for the days that your part time came so you won't be fined so much. I would never operate with out a license!
I know it takes a while but it's not worth it!

What county are you in?

[Crystal]

102357 OPERATION WITHOUT A LICENSE 102357
(a) If the Department has reason to believe that family child care is being provided without a license, the
licensing agency shall:
(1) Conduct a site visit to:
(A) Determine whether the home is operating without a license.
(B) Determine whether continued operation of the facility will be dangerous to the health
and safety of the children in care.
(2) Notify the unlicensed provider in writing of the requirements for such licensure.
(3) Issue a Notice of Operation in Violation of Law if it is found and documented that continued
operation of the family child care home will be dangerous to the health and safety of the children.
Situations endangering the health and safety of the children shall include, but not be limited to:
(A) Evidence of physical or mental abuse.
(B) Children left unattended or left with a minor.
(C) Clear evidence of unsanitary conditions.
(D) Fire safety/fire hazards.
(E) Unfenced or accessible pools or other bodies of water.
(F) Hazardous physical plant.
(4) Issue a Notice of Operation in Violation of Law if the unlicensed provider does not apply for a license within 15 working days from the date of notification.

102357 OPERATION WITHOUT A LICENSE (Continued) 102357
(b) The Department shall have the authority to issue an immediate civil penalty pursuant to Section 102393
and Section 1596.891 of the Health and Safety Code which provides:
(1) A person who violates Section 1596.80 of the Health and Safety Code may be liable for an
immediate assessment of civil penalties in the amount of two hundred dollars ($200) per day.
(2) The penalty specified in Section 102357(b)(1) shall be imposed if the operator of an unlicensedfacility refuses to seek licensure or the operator seeks licensure and is denied but continues to
operate.
(c) Section 102357 shall be applied pursuant to Section 1596.892 of the Health and Safety Code.
NOTE: Authority cited: Section 1596.81, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 1596.80, 1596.81(b),
1596.890, 1596.891, 1596.892 and 1597.61, Health and Safety Code