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How do you determine acceptable pay to the assistant? I'm looking at expanding and the person who I would be hiring has run and is currently tuning her own in home dc and isn't full. I know what she charges so i could easily add up what she would make if she was full.
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No
I'm specifically interested in the hiring of a staff assistant as that has been where most of the questions that have come my way.
A home child care hiring a single staff assistant can't withstand the economic loss associated with "workplace interventions" that a corporation would. They can't sustain the absentisim and presenteeism ESPECIALLY if the numbers of the children (compliance with regulations) and young age of the children are dependent upon the staff assistant being present and their ability to do bending, stretching, squatting, pushing, lifting, balance and co-ordination (must have when carrying small children) or difficulty in moving which is necessary to perform essential job functions and the employees difficulty in completing work in the expected amount of time.
(The dollar value cost of presenteeism
among moderately or extremely
obese workers was $506 per worker
each year compared with $433 per
worker for health-related absenteeism
above that of the other workers.
Thus, health-related limitation on the
job may be even more economically
significant than health-related time
off the job. Furthermore, absences do
not necessarily cost the employer the
full value of the worker’s time to the
extent that these are unpaid absences
and that other workers are able to
cover the missing shifts. Meanwhile,
presenteeism is always a cost to
employers because the worker is receiving
a full paycheck_Comment
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I actually followed the links Nan posted and read what Nan wrote. Her first response in this thread was a quick response to a question directed specifically at her--see below.
If you follow the link and read the post, she blatantly says that a person who is 80 lbs overweight can NOT do this job, which is utterly untrue. She also admits to discriminating by not hiring people who were overweight because she made an assumption that the job would be hard for them. It sounds like she hired someone who was heavy anyway, and though the job was hard at first, it worked out. And instead of using this as an example to maybe give people a chance (or at least not discriminate!), she says it confirmed her opinion that the obese can't do this work.I am working on a blog about staff assistants. I will try to get that up in the next few days. It's going to be at least two parts. Maybe three
In the meantime maybe you can look up some of my old posts:
https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...ighlight=obese
Nan's post is a long one, but I'm leaving it intact so you can read it in full if you want. I put the specific words I'm referring to in bold and italics so you can easily pick them out.
And then back to this thread, she mentions obesity again as a major issue in hiring daycare assistants.I don't know for sure. I have spoken to another Center owner besides my friend who operates in a fairly affluent neighborhood and she is coming across the same issue.
I think our society is getting heavier. It's acceptable for our youth to be overweight. I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.
I did three rounds of interviewing over a period of maybe six months or so and the last one I put in my ads that we would not accept anyone who had the health issue of obesity because the job here is very physcially demanding etc. I tried to be as nice about it as I could. I know it's a slippery slope but I was really getting tired of interviewing girls that COULD NOT do this job. It was a huge waste of my time.
The ones who worked at Centers before my interview would bring their physical forms to me at the interview and I saw so many health issues like asthma, high blood pressure, and back problems. I don't know how they got the jobs in the Centers in the first place but if that's all that came thru the door when you needed staff.. what are you going to do?
I got to the point where I just asked height and weight. It was exhausting dealing with it. Still out of the twelve I did interview who told me their height and weight... I found that they markedly underestimated the truth. I was willing to consider girls 40-50 poiunds overweight but I could NOT have someone here that was 80-90-100 pounds overweight.
The person I hired was on the line of what I thought would work but after a year of working for me she lost about 25 pounds so she is doing really well. The job was EXTREMELY difficult for her in the begining. She was a perfect example of why I was certain that the weight would be an issue here. She had a really really hard time PHYSCIALLY doing the work and doing it in the time I needed it to be done.
I felt I didn't have the option to wait it out until I found someone who was physically fit enough for the job. I just wasn't getting a single response from someone who wasn't dealing with obesity.
I'm no slim jim myself. I have about 30 extra pounds on me. I know how physically taxing this is carrying around 30 extra pounds. It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80.
It's a hard subject to talk about because people get offended and there are anti discrimination laws. I didn't want to discriminate at all... I just really needed someone who could do this job. I can't afford to do the intensive costly training I do here and have someone quit because they can't keep up or have the health issues that come along with morbid obesity. When you have a small window of client base and funds for the position you have to have the RIGHT person. You can't have someone who has health complications and being 80 plus pounds overweight IS a health complication.
Nan is held in what seems to be high esteem in this community as someone who has lots of experience and a well of knowledge. People are asking for guidance from her--specifically. She blatantly admits discrimination and makes very bold, very specific statements that are absolutely not true, and one only needs to look at the world around them to know that they're untrue.
A group of people who look exactly the same way will not perform to the same level of of ability or disability, which is why we have anti-discrimination laws to stop employers from automatically dismissing people based on what they look like.
I understand that Nan feels backed into a corner because finding good help is hard, but there has to be a better solution than discrimination. If you have to give people a test, then give them a test (I've been tested for many jobs in my past). But at least give them a chance.Comment
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"...I put in my ads that we would not accept anyone who had the health issue of obesity..."
"...It was a huge waste of my time..."
"...bring their physical forms to me at the interview..."
"...I saw so many health issues I don't know how they got the jobs in the Centers in the first place..."
"...if that's all that came thru the door..."
"...I got to the point where I just asked height and weight..."
"...I could NOT have someone here that was 80-90-100 pounds overweight..."
"...It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80..."
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Mmmm Kay. Wow.Comment
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Is this the general census of those that have assistants? All I can say is "Wow"! This speaks volumes in the area of why there are anti-discrimination laws.Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
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I have had a number of teens and it worked out really well. They stayed an average of three years each.
Had them come in three hour blocks from three p.m. to six and two three hour blocks in the summer and on breaks.
My first one in 93 was three bucks an hour.
with a dollar an hour raise every year. Every year under their belt they become more and more valuable to you so give them raises every year. I also give anniversary bonus, 18 paid days per year, and a christmas bonus of two weeks salary. With my staff assistant that was with me for 7.5 years total she received a 500 dollar bonus when she hit the fifth year. I helped her buy her first car. ;-) I also took her to Europe and Prince Edward Island with me when she was a kid. I paid her and she got a couple of cool trips....
I can't advise you on pay because I don't know what your state requires law wise for kids under the age of 18.
I always went for the oldest child in the family and preference to ones who had much younger siblings (ten year age difference or more). If they are a family that requires their kid to do chores and have responsibility then the kid is happy to do that at your house for money instead of for free.
I wanted a kid that did not do extracurricular activities, was at least a B student (no worky here if you don't get good grades), lived within walking distance to my house, and was NOT responsible for the care of their younger sibs after school.
I had them do all cleaning, laundry folding, chop veggies and fruit, and watch the kids play toys. I did not have them play with the kids or do any educational activities with the kids. Their jobs with the kids was JUST to supervise play and meals and change diapers. NO book reading, arts and crafts, educational.... nothing like that.
When they got old enough to drive then I had them run errands for me. I pay double the tax rate for mileage. So if it's .50 a mile I give 1.00 a mile plus time to shop and run errands.
I had a wonderful relationship with the teens. I became the second Mama. My second and fourth staff assistant brought their kids to me for a few years... that was a blessing like no other.
Bottom line with teenagers is to teach them.... you take care of me and I will TAKE CARE of you. Work HARD and do as I say. If you do... this will be an amazing job for you and I will help you get your next job... and the next. I can teach you a trade that you can carry with you into adulthood to either make a living or to raise your own.
WORD OF CAUTION: do not allow ANY cell phone usage. Get that straight from second one. No "distracted" teens in my house.
Nan, I'm totally lost on your time line I guess with your assistants. Here you say you had a number of teens work with you and they averaged 3 years each. Then another assistant stayed 7.5 years (which would be wonderful to know and have someone that reliable). What I'm lost on then is why would you have to go to such extremes interviewing people if you don't have a high turnover in staff. It doesn't sound like you have had to actually have new people come in that much in your 18 years of childcare. I would say what maybe 3 times? I could be just reading the different posts wrong and getting them mixed up.Each day is a fresh start
Never look back on regrets
Live life to the fullest
We only get one shot at this!!
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My question to you Peanut is this: Have you ever had a staff assistant? Have you ever advertised for one? Have you ever done the interviewing necessary?
I have had several staff assistants and Nan isn't trying to discriminate based on obesity. She's simply stating that overweight individuals can not perform the job requirements as efficiently as another person.
Take this for example:
You have a staff assistant that you pay $8.00 an hour for. Just to do diaper changes on 8 children, it takes you a total of 16 minutes. That's 2 minutes per child to get the child/lay them down/undress/change/dress and back to play. Say your assistant is 275 lbs. It takes her a total of 40 minutes to change diapers and you change all the kids 5 times a day! Would you rather pay $10.66 per day to change diapers or pay $26.66? That's a difference of 2 hours per day! 2 hours per day times 5 times a week times 52 weeks in a year is equivalent to an additional $4160 a year!!!!
All people come is all different shapes and sizes and everyone does things differently. However, working for Nan, she has a very structured system & there is a particular way she wants things done. It's proven effective for her for this long so why fight it.
We are all entitled to hire who we want but if you think obesity and childcare aren't hand in hand, you are mistaken. There is a center right across the street and those women are very large! There is no crime against being obese but it does limit abilities.
Would you rather hire someone that can see their feet while carrying an infant down the stairs or someone that can't even make it up or down the stairs without being out of breath?!Comment
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Don't forget ladies....Nan never said that overweight people cannot do childcare period, only that in her experience an overweight person cannot do the duties that she personally needs HER staff assistant to handle. My assistant is overweight (sorry if thats too blunt) but I only have 6 kids max here. If I was running a larger program, she may not have the stamina and capabilities to keep up with kids as well. Thats just the honest truth. When a job requires physical health and stamina, a person who is not fit and healthy has a harder time doing it, that doesn't make it impossible, just harder. Why is that offensive? Plus if you are paying someone out of your own hard earned profit, why wouldn't you look for the person with the best capability (including most fit and energetic) ? I have 30lbs to lose and I notice a big difference when I am exercising regularly and able to keep up with active children better.Comment
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Nannyde said: I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.
Nice! Did anybody else notice her assessment of US?! I'm sure someone else on here will be sure to jump in and explain how it's ok for her to say things like this because she's so experienced and all.Comment
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I don't see this as an assessment of all of us. She says it draws lower skilled, lower paid workers which is true which is why there are many states that offer free or low-cost training in the child development field for child care providers. There are a lot of people that figure "Oh it'll be easy, what the hell. I'll give it a try" and simply turn the boob tube on and let the children run around like helions (from my personal experience of trying to find child care). She doesn't say all providers are like this. She only says that it draws them.Comment
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ummm....what she said is true. The standards at most of my local centers are extremely low. I don't know that you even have to have a high school diploma. I think they require two on going training classes a year but its a few hours, plus CPR training (again not a huge commitment). They are also paid very low. My friends was making $8 an hour with a room of 20+ three year olds. She was supposed to have an assistant but they couldn't keep many assistants for long (because of the pay, no surprise there). I see the same daycare centers advertising constantly in our local newspaper and on CL and there are quite a few in town (like 40, not including home daycares and preschool only centers). It is a well documented fact that those with less education and lower economic situation have more issues with weight. Thats not just on daycare workers, thats the whole country.Comment
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I understand Nanny's point about obesity hindering the provider's ability to effectively work with children. I don't neccessarily agree that it affects ALL obese workers, but it does happen. I conducted a FCCERS assessment on a program where the provider was morbidly obese. Her work with the children was so limited that she used a desk chair on wheels to get around the entire three hours I was there. So, yes it can and does have an impact on working with children.
Now, before I get blasted, know that when I married my husband he was over 300 pounds......I was 5"2" and 100 pounds.....his weight did not matter to me, his loving, caring and loyal nature is what I was attracted to and cared about. He is no longer obese, as he realized how it was effecting his relationships with his children and his ability to play with them, as well as the health implications that would have resulted in a premature death.
Just know that I don't discriminate based on size, but I happen to agree that obesity CAN effect our work with children.Comment
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