Can A Playground Be Too Safe?

[nannyde]

can I point out though that the article is not discussing playgrounds at child care? Or anything else child care related? It's discussing the government (be it city, state, or federal) making decisions to remove the playground equipment, thus taking away the opportunity for parents to take the children there to play on the equipment and experience the risks.

Your response feels very unrelated to the actual content.

Oh I know the jest of the article.

I'm saying that for the same reasons the government makes these decisions they are made in child care across the nation.

The old tall jungle gyms and slides disappeared from most American playgrounds across the country in recent decades because of parental concerns, federal guidelines, new safety standards set by manufacturers and — the most frequently cited factor — fear of lawsuits.

You have THAT above AND the added responsibility that YOU are to spot the child when you do child care.

This IS a child care board so my response WOULD be to read the article and apply it to child care and the ages I serve.

[youretooloud]

can I point out though that the article is not discussing playgrounds at child care? Or anything else child care related? It's discussing the government (be it city, state, or federal) making decisions to remove the playground equipment, thus taking away the opportunity for parents to take the children there to play on the equipment and experience the risks.

Your response feels very unrelated to the actual content.

Yes.. I'd never have anything like that on my property. But, I wouldn't stop my own six year old from climbing that at the playground. I don't want the liability in my own home though.

http://www.danaplayground.com/adventure-plus-1/ Although, I did have this one at my old house, and the little kids loved it! It was dangerous, hard to do, and fun. The yard I have now, isn't really a yard.. it's more like an outside part of the house... so, no playground equipment would fit here.

[nannyde]

Yes.. I'd never have anything like that on my property. But, I wouldn't stop my own six year old from climbing that at the playground. I don't want the liability in my own home though.

I get ya on that.

I think the bottom line of it is that nobody wants to host it.

[Country Kids]

Question then-if a child (your own) falls at the city park who do you hold liable-yourself or do you go and sue the city for your childs injuries when you were the one supposed to be supervising.

Same thing for the schools-do you hold the playground teacher, the school, or the district for not being able to supervise about 100-200 kids on the playground.

Nan, you said a playground injury would be considered lack of supervision for your state. How does that apply then if you are inside a child trips and falls, another child bites a child, etc. and you are right there. Anything, even outside could just be a childs clumsiness (except the biting). I had one get off my lap, take a step, then trip over childs own foot and fall hard enough outside that we thought the nose broke. Nope just bruised very lightly but scared us to death but I was literally a baby step away. Not lack of supervision but a child not stepping properly. I'm ready to put them all in bubble wrap and I so believe in children playing hard and getting dirty.

[mom2many]

Years ago, I used to have a playground structure in our backyard, but decided to take it down. None of my dcks or my own children ever got hurt playing on it, but I decided it was too big a liability and we now do "park days". I load the little ones in the wagon and we walk over to our neighborhood park. I'm very careful keeping the little ones in the age appropriate area and bring another adult with me to help.

I think it's a shame how quickly society is willing to sue over an accident. My own daughter fell off the monkey bars 5 minutes after being dropped off at school when she was 6 years old. She ended up with a broken arm and it NEVER crossed my mind to sue the school. It was purely an accident!

Earlier today, I had one of my 1 yr old dcgs fall down and hit her lip. Her one and only tooth managed to cut it! She just started walking and isn't very stable yet...fortunately she is totally fine, but had me freaking out for a minute!

[nannyde]

Question then-if a child (your own) falls at the city park who do you hold liable-yourself or do you go and sue the city for your childs injuries when you were the one supposed to be supervising.

Same thing for the schools-do you hold the playground teacher, the school, or the district for not being able to supervise about 100-200 kids on the playground.

Nan, you said a playground injury would be considered lack of supervision for your state. How does that apply then if you are inside a child trips and falls, another child bites a child, etc. and you are right there. Anything, even outside could just be a childs clumsiness (except the biting). I had one get off my lap, take a step, then trip over childs own foot and fall hard enough outside that we thought the nose broke. Nope just bruised very lightly but scared us to death but I was literally a baby step away. Not lack of supervision but a child not stepping properly. I'm ready to put them all in bubble wrap and I so believe in children playing hard and getting dirty.

If you are interested in learning about lawsuits and playground equipment you can find a lot just by googling it. It took me a couple of seconds to find this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwKWBIWNSuw

I think how it affects day care is the process that it takes to show that whatever happened in your home was a pure accident and there was NOTHING you could have done to prevent it. That becomes a judgement call by whoever investigates it.

With the birth to five crowd I think there is an expectation that they are spotted at all times. With one adult and multi level aged group of kids that's not so easy to do. Not having them on the equipment is the safest thing to do. Not having the equipment is the safest thing for schools... for governments... for child care providers. There's a REASON why this is happening and a good portion of it is MONEY and fear of accountability that is unrealistic in a group setting.

I remember this post from Crystal... simple but to the point:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31306&highlight=spot

I wouldn't just let a kid fall and break something. I spot the children when they do this. I am right there to catch them if they fall.

If we have them on playground equipment and we don't "catch them if they fall" then we will be responsible for not carefully supervising them.

[AmandasFCC]

In child care in translates into having to spot kids on equipment and having the financial liability if there is an injury. There's also the consequence thru DHS and child protective.

My state simply says "careful supervision at all times". A playground injury will be considered lack of supervision in the birth to five crowd.

With "risks" it's always the same thing. It's good when it's good. Not so good when it's not.

The cost of simple medical care now and the expectation that there are no injuries in child care is what keeps providers from taking risks.

"Sometimes, of course, their mastery fails, and falls are the common form of playground injury. But these rarely cause permanent damage, either physically or emotionally"

Decisions are based on "rarely".

I think that's so sad. I think it's disgraceful that we have to raise children and run our child care businesses in FEAR of being sued. I think that lawyers, licensing bodies, etc. need to spend LESS time satisfying sue-happy morons, and MORE time focusing on the quality of early childhood programs.
When I was a kid I fell off the 6 ft high monkey bars. I was hanging upside down, got sweaty behind my knees and slipped right off. Did my mom sue? NO! Did I get back up there and try again? After I gained my confidence again on the shorter bars.

When I was 11 years old I was doing something similar, hanging upside down on some railings in front of a set of doors in my school. My face was hanging inches away from the concrete. My hands slipped and I ate concrete. Needed stitches in my head. Again, did my mom sue? NO! I learned a valuable lesson about where it is appropriate to play.

Kids need to be kids!!! Kids need to experience bumps and bruises and the more we allow these ridiculous laws and regulations to pass, the worse off our children will be.

[sharlan]

I think that's so sad. I think it's disgraceful that we have to raise children and run our child care businesses in FEAR of being sued. I think that lawyers, licensing bodies, etc. need to spend LESS time satisfying sue-happy morons, and MORE time focusing on the quality of early childhood programs.
When I was a kid I fell off the 6 ft high monkey bars. I was hanging upside down, got sweaty behind my knees and slipped right off. Did my mom sue? NO! Did I get back up there and try again? After I gained my confidence again on the shorter bars.

When I was 11 years old I was doing something similar, hanging upside down on some railings in front of a set of doors in my school. My face was hanging inches away from the concrete. My hands slipped and I ate concrete. Needed stitches in my head. Again, did my mom sue? NO! I learned a valuable lesson about where it is appropriate to play.

Kids need to be kids!!! Kids need to experience bumps and bruises and the more we allow these ridiculous laws and regulations to pass, the worse off our children will be.

AND parents need to stop sueing at the drop of a hat (or child).

[AmandasFCC]

The more they win, and are permitted to DO it, the more they will Pretty soon we won't be able to do child care without a padded play room ::

[Meeko]

I think that's so sad. I think it's disgraceful that we have to raise children and run our child care businesses in FEAR of being sued. I think that lawyers, licensing bodies, etc. need to spend LESS time satisfying sue-happy morons, and MORE time focusing on the quality of early childhood programs.
When I was a kid I fell off the 6 ft high monkey bars. I was hanging upside down, got sweaty behind my knees and slipped right off. Did my mom sue? NO! Did I get back up there and try again? After I gained my confidence again on the shorter bars.

When I was 11 years old I was doing something similar, hanging upside down on some railings in front of a set of doors in my school. My face was hanging inches away from the concrete. My hands slipped and I ate concrete. Needed stitches in my head. Again, did my mom sue? NO! I learned a valuable lesson about where it is appropriate to play.

Kids need to be kids!!! Kids need to experience bumps and bruises and the more we allow these ridiculous laws and regulations to pass, the worse off our children will be.

I have a liability release as part of my paperwork. Only one set of parents have ever hesitated to sign it, but happily did later. The couple showed it to their attorney who explained to them that it wouldn't hold up in court if their child was neglected or abused...but that it helped me with the kind of parents that would sue because their little princess tripped over her feet in the driveway and scraped her chin and the parents tried to sue for $100,000 because "princess will now need plastic surgery as she was going to be a top model"

The release basically states that they acknowledge that kids will be kids and that we cannot be held responsible for every tiny scrape. Skinned knees are a part of childhood!

[Playground Wally]

I LOVE this article and I totally agree!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/sc...mns%2fFindings

It's tough. Especially here in California, the litigation capitol of the world. ASTM F1487 is the set of safety standards for playground equipment and the latest version is 66 pages long. That being said, its exciting to see how the playground manufacturers are approaching the challenge of creating stimulating play components while still keeping it safe.

[spud912]

Remember the merry-go-rounds? Those were the best! You will never see them on the park anymore because of all the injuries.

[Sunchimes]

Our town tore out some of the good old fashioned playground stuff last year in preparation for upgrading the entire park. It is suppose to re-open this summer. I know the paper said they were having some sort of water feature, like a water spray or something, but I'll be interested in seeing what they replace it with. Last time I was there, the only things left were a huge slide and one of those metal climbing things.

[SunshineMama]

One of the reasons I am not licensed...

One of the reasons I am not licensed is because I am sick of all of the red tape involved with children. Can we just let kids be kids?

I understand the liability issue, but how far are we going to take this? Sure, Johnny got a broken arm falling off of the slide. Maybe next time he will learn not to stand up and mess around at the top, kwim? Injuries and mistakes, in a safe environment, create opportunities to learn. Yes, a playground is a safe environment- no reason to tear them down imho.

I understand the liability aspect, and agree that you always have to be careful. I personally refuse to disallow children to play outside on playgrounds. The more they run and climb, the healthier they are, and the easier my job is, since all of that energy went to good use instead of troublemaking. Yes, it is a risk, yes, my liability waiver might not hold up in court if I were ever sued, and yes, all of my own children, and daycare children, get a few good hours of decent, hard play every day. I do not have one overweight child. At naptime, they all sleep hard, since their little bodies are recooperating from all of the play. I have sent them home with bumps from falling down, and the parents are all very understanding. They chose me as their provider because I let them do these things, and they are like-minded. They want their kids to be kids!

Sorry for the mini-tangent, I just get so frustrated at bureaucracy these days- when will the kids be "safe" enough?

[SunshineMama]

Remember the merry-go-rounds? Those were the best! You will never see them on the park anymore because of all the injuries.

OMG those were my FAVORITE!!! If you havn't ever been flung off of those as a kid you missed out !