Won't Pay - Long Story

[squareone]

I am sitting here trying to figure out how some of you came up with the conclusion that the children were left unsupervised. I understood the original poster to say she would check on the baby and sit on the other side of the windows and watch them. I am wondering now what some of you do when you go pee, do you take all the children in the bathroom with you? I know I don't. I see no difference in sitting on a patio outside my back door watching the children, or sitting on the inside of my back screen door watching the children as I feed an infant. The only difference is about 3 feet. In both senarios I can see and hear the children the exact same.

So true! She said upfront that the kids were supervised.

[SilverSabre25]

Gosh, is it that time of the month again?

Crystal, I do have to ask, that when you're outside with the kids, are you looking at EVERY kid EVERY second? You can see all the kids at one time and never are tying your shoe, scratching your nose, slapping a bug, looking at one child while you answer a question or kiss a minor bump, watching a butterfly flutter by, looking for interesting clouds, or searching for a four-leaf clover?

If so (and I have a hard time believing that your answer is going to be "no" for everything), you're not providing 100% active supervision either and in those few seconds that you are distracted with a single child (or whatever), something could happen and you should make sure your parents know that.

[sharlan]

My only issue would be that there is an escape route. The kids are not allowed in that area, and we all know that kids push the limits when they can. While the OP is doing a head count, little Johnny is sneaking out. BUT, that could happen while she was in the yard with them.

We are all so different on this forum and we are all human. What is right for me in my daycare would so not be allowed in another. I am much older than most here, I think, I'm much more lax. I've fought all the battles and now I'm content to pick and choose which ones I want to fight. I try not to be a "helicopter" provider and give the kids some breathing room.

IMHO, the main issue is that the OP feels that she is entitled to two weeks notice and/or two weeks pay. The parent feels that she was not receiving quality of care and does not feel that she should do either. That's where a contract and small claims comes into play.

[MarinaVanessa]

I really don't see why theres such a debate. To me it's clear. The daycare provider does things one way, the mom wants it a different way. Does the mom have a right to take her kids elsewhere if the provider doesn't believe in what she believes in? Absolutely, 100%, right there with you.

BUT the parent signed a contract that says that she will give a 2 weeks notice of termination. She can by all means change and go to another daycare if she wants and find another place that she feels is better for her children but she still needs to put in her 2 weeks notice. Whether she wants to take her kids to daycare during that time is up to her, but if she is required to pay for that time even if her kids aren't present well then sorry ... she still has to pay.

When I have interviews I don't ever say "Oh btw, when the kid go out back I don't go out there with them". I guess it's kind of the norm here. The kids come and go as they please during free time so my doors into the back are open. They can play in the back if they want or they can play in the playroom. I will stay where the majority of the kids are.

If this were to go to court where I live the provider would win hands down because they would go by what was on paper. The mom could say "but it's unsafe because theres a gap in the fence and there was no supervision" and the judge would look up the regulations to see what regulations consider to be "supervision". If supervision is "within hearing" or "within sight" then the provider is still ok because she could see the kids and therefore on paper, is still in the right. (now remember, I'm basing this on the information given and on because the provider has said that she has done nothing against regulations).

[Blackcat31]

I see valid points in BOTH sides of this argument. My only comment was to snowball. I thought her comment to another member (regardless of who) about not expecting anything less was IMHO a bit uncalled for and that those kinds of comments are what causes such a hostile environment on this forum.

[Crystal]

Gosh, is it that time of the month again?

Crystal, I do have to ask, that when you're outside with the kids, are you looking at EVERY kid EVERY second? You can see all the kids at one time and never are tying your shoe, scratching your nose, slapping a bug, looking at one child while you answer a question or kiss a minor bump, watching a butterfly flutter by, looking for interesting clouds, or searching for a four-leaf clover?

If so (and I have a hard time believing that your answer is going to be "no" for everything), you're not providing 100% active supervision either and in those few seconds that you are distracted with a single child (or whatever), something could happen and you should make sure your parents know that.

First, I think that is much different than being INSIDE the house.

Second, there are two to three providers here at all times, so I can say that yes, they are being actively, physically supervised at all times.

Third, as I said before, that if it works for the provider, great, but clearly it's not because a parent had an issues with it.

[dEHmom]

Yes it is that time of the month Silversabre....


I'm going to say it again.....

We are hearing one side of the story here on this thread, with the chance that the other side of the story is on another thread from February.

Remember, our own perspective of things are different than someone elses. We can only comment on what we know, and what was said.

As for the OP, things didn't work out. But maybe I would suggest letting it be. Send a demand for payment if you must, but is it worth court?

As for the 98% fenced yard, IF she can clearly see the 2% that's not fenced, and KNOW that no child is wandering out of it, then fine. Bugs will get you regardless. Without actually viewing the space, it's hard to know how well she can supervise and manage children from indoors. I know I can manage my own children outdoors without me being there, but my dck's are all far too young to be left outside alone, and I have never left a dck alone, even watching from a window or a door.

For those of us who do not have assistants, we cannot watch children 100% of the time. We can watch them about 98-99% of the time, but there are times where our eyes aren't on them. And I do know for a fact that in those few seconds you don't have your eyes on them, they can literally be a tornado in my home. So if they can completely destroy my living room in 1 minute while I'm in the bathroom, I can just imagine what could happen if the OP was looking at the baby or changing a bum, or cleaning up vomit. But that's as much as I'll say about that.

[mac60]

I have a 4ft chain length fence, and over the years, I have had a handful of kids try to scale it.....fence or no fence, if a child wants "out", they will find a way.

[Crystal]

I have a 4ft chain length fence, and over the years, I have had a handful of kids try to scale it.....fence or no fence, if a child wants "out", they will find a way.

A very good resaon for active, physical supervision.

[Cat Herder]

We are hearing one side of the story here on this thread, with the chance that the other side of the story is on another thread from February..

Actually the Parents post was from 13 days ago...

IMHO, this is pretty cut and dry.

If the parent was told that the provider would be providing active, direct, supervision while outside with the children, as is the rule/regulation here, then the provider is not entitled to a two week termination fee for breach of contract on her own part.

If the parent was told that the provider would be using a passive supervision technique when children were outside, while indoors herself, then the parent must pay the two week notice per her signed contract as she agreed to it.

If this was never discussed prior to enrollment then both the parent and provider have learned an invaluable lesson which they can both benefit from and the court will decide who loses the two week fee.

Not all States mandate Active/Direct Supervision so it is up to the parent to ask/ensure during the interview process if it is something that is important to them.

[dEHmom]

Actually the Parents post was from 13 days ago...

oh my bad....where did I get february from? did this happen in february? i'm confused now.

[Cat Herder]

oh my bad....where did I get february from? did this happen in february? i'm confused now.

No...the parent found an old thread that was a tiny bit relevant to her question. She just picked the taxes forum so few saw it.

She posted a question of whether a provider was allowed to leave her kids outside alone.

I posted them on page one of this thread to make it easier. It gets confusing...I know. ::::

I answered her on the other thread, that is how I remembered her to begin with.

[mac60]

A very good resaon for active, physical supervision.

And you know what.....on more than one occassion I looked up at saw a kid trying to scale the fence BEHIND the play castle......I had been sitting on the patio less than 15 feet from him, but because he was BEHIND the play castle, he was out of sight. It is rediculous to expect or to think that any provider/parent/any other adult supervising a child can see and be witness to 100% of 100% of what each and every child does. And to say that "you do", it obsurd. The kids in my care have had front teeth knocked out at age 21 mo, a 4 yr old was shut in a dryer by his 22 mo old brother, 11 stitches were put in a 3 yr olds forehead, I could go on and on,,,,,,but, never under my watch, always under the watch of the parents in their own home.

[Crystal]

And you know what.....on more than one occassion I looked up at saw a kid trying to scale the fence BEHIND the play castle......I had been sitting on the patio less than 15 feet from him, but because he was BEHIND the play castle, he was out of sight. It is rediculous to expect or to think that any provider/parent/any other adult supervising a child can see and be witness to 100% of 100% of what each and every child does. And to say that "you do", it obsurd. The kids in my care have had front teeth knocked out at age 21 mo, a 4 yr old was shut in a dryer by his 22 mo old brother, 11 stitches were put in a 3 yr olds forehead, I could go on and on,,,,,,but, never under my watch, always under the watch of the parents in their own home.

I agree that we cannot see 100% of every single moment, that is impossible. FTR...I have never stated that I see 100% of everything....I have stated that we provide active, physical supervision. I have stated that there are two to three providers here at all times, actively and physically supervising.

There is a HUGE difference between being INSIDE while the children are OUTSIDE and not seeing 100% of everything and actually being OUTSIDE when the children are OUTSIDE and seeing 100% of everthing. If I am outside with the children, and not distracted by other things (baby) happening indoors, I am much more likely to catch them scaling the fence. THAT is why I advocate active, physical supervision.

[Country Kids]

Just today was a story on the news and a good example of why children need supervision! A little boy in China managed to fall out a window between the security bars and was hanging there for 10 mins. trying to crawl back up before his mother came to help him. I think they said the police are the ones that alerted her to the problem when they showed up to her door.

You know apts. aren't that big! She probably thought he was playing in his room so why check on him.

This is one reason I don't take babies is because of the whole needing extra attention and not being able to be with the older children 100% of the time. I am with my children and always within sight of them when we are outside but that is the way I designed my yard. Everyone plays on the deck at the same time so that I can see them and then we are all down in the yard so that I can see them. Also, if a provider is unable to supervise at all times maybe age ranges need to be different or adjust the amount of children you watch.