Master Tantrum Thrower

[CdnMumof4]

I have this part timer, who is only here a handful of times a month - but for extended hours [15hrs]. He's 18 months old and recently started tossing the BIGGEST fits over anything. he throws tantrums at the drop of a hat and his screach...is worse than a newborn SCREAM. he's tiny - 18lbs at 18 months, has a feeding aversion which we're working through, and doesn't love naps. One day he was up and busy [with programming] on a weekend, for 13hrs and I finally said ENOUGH. Don't be fooled- I had put him down at our reg. nap times...and he just screamed bloody murder and kicked and kicked and kicked at the wall, bouncing the playpen off the ground. He tosses fits on the stairs because [he just learned how to go up/down stairs and is still wobbly on his best day] he likes to carry his 'bunny' everywhere. and it's not safe, on the stairs. He THREW his body down the stairs!! I was standing one step below, holding bunny...and he chucked his entire little body down the stairs- of course I caught him...but WTF?!! had a talk with mom about that one, and also about teaching him boundaries while they're out. I said that as a provider, I can enforce these boundaries and rules, but I cannot teach them. I go to the park with 6 kids in tow- and this kid, if he's not strapped down, disappears in a split second. he's a fast little bugger! So most of the time we're outside, if not in the fenced yard, he's in the stroller, wagon, whatever..but clipped down . Mom admitted the other day she carries him everywhere, beucase it's just so much easier- but I said we have to remember his age, and just because he's small, we cannot treat him as a newborn. He has what I call "newborn syndrome" where he'd rather be carried everywhere, not do anything for himself. This kid can walk, run, feed himself, etc- but would just rather...not. So will heap himself on the floor and lay there until [he thinks] I feel bad enough and pick him up, but I pick him up and cart him up to bed. He's learning this...and is realizing I don't put up with fits.

but- so these tantrums. I haven't had a kid toss this many tantrums, and so strong. Anyone else have a dck who does this? What do you do? I do time outs, "lets go back to bed then" [until he's ready to come down the stairs on his own, and get bunny at the bottom] , removing his tray of food and putting it on the table infront of him until he calms down [had to do this tonight] , full out walking away when it's safe to do so [also did this today, while at a petting farm and it was time to go] ....etc.

he's also getting agressive with the other kids- if someone even goes near something that he feels is "his" ....SMACK or push or something. doesn't share, doesn't listen...etc. I told mom she needs to start socializing while he's not in daycare, becuase he's here so seldomly that he's not getting the whole concept of 6 kids in one house. She says he's horrible at playgroups but she keeps saying " I think he just has so much to say and just not the language skills to do it" ..... uhm lady, when your kid screams and says " NOOOOOOOOO" while smacking another kid ...he's being pretty darned clear.


so...tips?

[daycare]

This is exactly why I dont do drop in care. It's very hard to get a child on your schedule when he is off of it more than he is on it. You can't expect this child to adapt when he's not there enough to do so.

If I were you I would be asking mom if its possible to have the child attend on a regular basis. Children need consistency. you will never get this child acclimated to the group if he's on a schedule like this.

[Live and Learn]

This is exactly why I dont do drop in care. It's very hard to get a child on your schedule when he is off of it more than he is on it. You can't expect this child to adapt when he's not there enough to do so.
.

What she said.

May the force be with you.::

[cheerfuldom]

yup, drop ins are notoriously the worse kids ever, second only to infrequent part timers. do you even have to take him? doesn't sound worth it to me. Like you said, you can't teach him anything in one day and its clear that mom is not doing it at home

[Live and Learn]

he's also getting agressive with the other kids- if someone even goes near something that he feels is "his" ....SMACK or push or something. doesn't share, doesn't listen...etc. I told mom she needs to start socializing while he's not in daycare, becuase he's here so seldomly that he's not getting the whole concept of 6 kids in one house. She says he's horrible at playgroups but she keeps saying " I think he just has so much to say and just not the language skills to do it" ..... uhm lady, when your kid screams and says " NOOOOOOOOO" while smacking another kid ...he's being pretty darned clear.


so...tips?

My home is a violence free.

The next time he was aggressive to another child I would either isolate for the rest of the day or call for immediate pick up.

The next time mom called for drop in care I would not be available.

[Cat Herder]

My home is a violence free.

The next time he was aggressive to another child I would either isolate for the rest of the day or call for immediate pick up.

The next time mom called for drop in care I would not be available.

I would do the same.

[CdnMumof4]

thing is...it's not drop-in care. it's scheduled in advance...just seems drop in. Mum is a nurse at a busy hospital downtown Toronto and dad is a paramedic downtown Toronto as well [I am about 30mins north of Toronto...on a good day]

Maybe I should suggest he come a scheduled 2 days a week all the time, and then keep to his sporadic schedule otherwise? I'd love to have more income coming from them, that's for sure. But yes, his behaviour is getting unbearable, even at home mum is noticing it and asking what to do. She was telling me yesterday she's havin ga hard time with the public tantrums because of people's judging glares. I told her you have to pretend you don't see the other people watching, and stick to your guns as difficult as it may be. Her little guy tosses a fit so you pick him up and take him out of anywhere [or so you stay longer- whichever he chooses] and I told her he can't get away with it or she'll be dealing with an impossible preschooler when she has her 2nd baby [they are going to start trying in the summer].

I am going to definitely suggest the minimum 2 days a week...although I'm sure I'll hear the sob story. He had 2 15hr days back to back this week, and it was SO hard on him. first day we dealt with ssome anger and aggression, 2nd day was meltdown city- over tired, over stimulated...30hrs over 2 days is a loooong friggen time for an 18 month old..

[Cat Herder]

Ugh, yeah they are "my people" so I would have to stick with them after all, too... I spoke too soon.

We are a Medical/Public Safety family as well so I bend over backwards as professional courtesy. It is a different sub-culture.

Yeah, I would talk to Mom about getting him on a regular schedule since that IS the only thing that will solve this issue. Consistency.

Good luck, hun. I think she will be willing to since she is also dealing with repercussions of his behavior.

[countrymom]

bad behavior equals play pen. set it up and let him scream his heart out. I will guarentee he's doing this to get attention. You need to stop him in his tracks. How about shadowing him (drives the kids nuts) I had a kid around his age who loved to hit, esp. when I wasn't around. well I started making him stay with me or I would shadow him, the minute I saw his hand go up, I would hollar stop, scared him to death but I knew he was going to hit someone. Also the minute he did hit someone or didn't share he got the corner, this went on for a while, but he got the hint that I don't allow this behavior in the house.
also ask mom what her schedual is at home, I find it odd that he doesn't want to sleep, how does she put him to sleep. I have 2 kids who like to talk at nap time, I have learned to stand by the door and and the minute they start I open the door and and say shhh, maybe he needs help learning to sleep, kwim.

[morgan24]

That is a long day for an 18 month old. If you have a play yard I would set that up and put him in there with soft toys to play with.I have two posts in my basement play room and I hook it to that with zip ties so it can' be moved. When they rock the pnp, I nap them in the play yard too.

I don't think even 2 days is going to help him. He needs a regular schedule so he can adjust.

[SilverSabre25]

I'm wondering if he has something else going on--you mentioned a feeding aversion. I'm wondering if there are further sensory issues (like Sensory Processing Disorder) or even something like autism that might be making it hard for him to cope with change, with stimulation, something. DCM should possibly have him evaluated for issues beyond the feeding aversion they know about already.

[CdnMumof4]

yes, there are other sensory issues- and I have put the parents in contact with the proper therapists to help determine, they are more than willing to work with me- which helps. I do playpen, I do shadowing, I do time-outs, I do "back to bed" , I do all of that. I don't put up with that sort of behaviour, and none of the other kids even attempt it- because they all know what happens. This is why I'm looking for other alternatives, he is a sweet little boy with lots of fire- so this is what we're dealing with.

As for occupation- yes, I felt for the family as my bro-in-law is also a paramedic and I know how hectic their lives/schedules can be. They also have ZERO family here, so nobody can even take little man on off days. I am the only daycare around here that provides such hours and such a schedule- and I honestly don't mind at all, but in light of his recent behavioural changes...we need to figure something out. I've suggested we do 2 scheduled days a week on top of their needed care days..and explained why, so we'll see how it goes.

He's meeting a therapist today over sensory issues, so we'll see what results that brings- could be a very big part of it. He's getting better at sleeping, because when he's dropped off at 6am , I put him straight down to bed for an hour, and that seems to help him with the days nap schedules. When he's up from 5:30am-10am, there's no way he's napping because he's OVER tired and just ...wretched !

[momofsix]

Is he there for 15 hours a stretch??? At only a couple of times a month that's got to be so hard on him...poor guy, I feel for both of you. That is a loooong day, especially since he isn't used to being in group care. The behavior your describing doesn't surprise me at all given the circumstances. If youre going to keep him it will be a lot of work and you'll need tons of patience You might even be named a saint after you die::
Does he act this way at home? Does he nap and is he on a schedule at home? That would be important for mom to do if she wants him to be able to function at daycare.
I don't really have any tips other than what you are doing except maybe keep him in a playyard when he's up and playing so that he can't hurt any of the other kids. Most 18 month olds don't understand the concept of "sharing" anyhow-but he has no experience at all having other kids use "his" stuff so maybe keeping him and "his" stuff in his own special area can at least cut down on some of the problems.

ETA: sorry some of this repeats previous posts, I got busy while in the middle of typing it up and lots of others chimed in during that time

[CdnMumof4]

mom sees the same behaviours at home- so I think she's skeptical that extra days at daycare will help his behaviour [although we all know it would!]. Anything to save a buck I guess.

And yes, 15hr stretch- sometimes two days in a row. that's a looooong time for someone that age, but they don't have another option, and it is working out for us. I have him on weekends and holidays too [but total days of care a month...less than 10] It's an exhausting day, because he requires SO MUCH supervision, intervention, assides/chats, and special handling. of course, every child in my care requires a ton of supervision- but this goes beyond that, and it's utterly exhausting. It wasn't bad at all in the beginning, but this behaviour started about a month ago...and it just keeps escalating. The hitting started a few months ago, but it wasn't often and it was more of a baby tap to get someone's attention- now it's pure rage and control but mum keeps chocking it up to communication skills. Yes...he has a lot to say and no way of fully expressing himself, but so do the other 18 month olds in my care and we don't deal with that behaviour....from anyone. As for 18 month olds and sharing- although it's not a fully understood concept at this stage, my other guys at this age...get it. It's not automatic, and it's taken time- but when one goes to snatch a toy, I simply say " X, did X have that first? let him have a turn, and then you take your turn" and they will return whatever toy they snatched, and move onto another one. No hit, no scream, no tears, just realization that..oh, I will get a turn. I'm also 24 weeks pregnant- so all the chasing is really starting to get to me...

this is a tough one ...thanks for the advice everyone, keep it coming. I like hearing other people's points of view and different angles.

[nannyde]

mom sees the same behaviours at home- so I think she's skeptical that extra days at daycare will help his behaviour [although we all know it would!]. Anything to save a buck I guess.

And yes, 15hr stretch- sometimes two days in a row. that's a looooong time for someone that age, but they don't have another option, and it is working out for us. I have him on weekends and holidays too [but total days of care a month...less than 10] It's an exhausting day, because he requires SO MUCH supervision, intervention, assides/chats, and special handling. of course, every child in my care requires a ton of supervision- but this goes beyond that, and it's utterly exhausting. It wasn't bad at all in the beginning, but this behaviour started about a month ago...and it just keeps escalating. The hitting started a few months ago, but it wasn't often and it was more of a baby tap to get someone's attention- now it's pure rage and control but mum keeps chocking it up to communication skills. Yes...he has a lot to say and no way of fully expressing himself, but so do the other 18 month olds in my care and we don't deal with that behaviour....from anyone. As for 18 month olds and sharing- although it's not a fully understood concept at this stage, my other guys at this age...get it. It's not automatic, and it's taken time- but when one goes to snatch a toy, I simply say " X, did X have that first? let him have a turn, and then you take your turn" and they will return whatever toy they snatched, and move onto another one. No hit, no scream, no tears, just realization that..oh, I will get a turn. I'm also 24 weeks pregnant- so all the chasing is really starting to get to me...

this is a tough one ...thanks for the advice everyone, keep it coming. I like hearing other people's points of view and different angles.

Can I ask if you are charging full time rates? If he is doing ten fifteen hour shifts per month that is full time hours.