Okay-Here's A Good One! So Mad!

[Missani]

So there have been a few threads lately about rude parents and people forgetting their manners. I have one. Before I say more, let me say that I love these kids and their mother and the dad might be okay, too, if he just learned some better communications skills. Maybe I shouldn't even be mad, but here goes: (sorry it will be long)

So I have two 4-year old boys here (my DS and a dcb). The only bathroom in my house is one level up from the daycare play area. Most of the time, the boys go potty when we are going outside/coming in, etc. Except before nap. After lunch, they go up alone together. I am in and out bringing up lunch dishes and food, so I do check on them, and the bathroom is right at the top of the stairs so they are within hearing at all times. Well, a few weeks ago, we started having problems. First it was toilet paper all over the bathroom, then shoved in the sink with the sink turned on. Then it was wet toilet paper stuck to the ceiling (). We had a few talks with dcm and dcd and made some new rules regarding toilet paper, etc. I also stopped letting them go in the bathroom together. One sat at the top of the stairs while the other went in and then they switched. Things got better and I made MANY more visits. Well, then, every time dcb was in there almost a whole roll of toilet paper would be gone! So we chatted AGAIN! Then, a hook we had on the wall to hold towels was pulled out of the wall. He admitted to hanging on it-so we chatted again.

Fast forward to yesterday. Somehow, dcb put a whole mega roll of tp into the toilet (the majority still on the roll-I had checked on him 30 seconds before he came back down) and flushed. I didn't realize until it was raining in my basement! I ran up, turned off the water, unclogged the toilet, etc. There was standing water in my bathroom, hallway, and dining room. The basement ceiling was leaking in the laundry room, daycare area, and a closet. I wiped it all up, and my DH called a water damage place. They came out to assess right away.

We have at least $3500 worth of damage to our floors, ceilings, cabinets, baseboards, walls, and carpet. They came last night to install super drying equipment, which will take at least 4 days. That covers the $3500. Then, they may have to replace carpet, baseboards, cabinets, etc. They may even have to rip down walls and ceilings, so that will cost MUCH MUCH more! Their equipment alone is in 1/2 of our house, and they had to put up temporary walls to block off 1/2 of the daycare. It is also 85 degrees in here from their equipment. The stuff is extensive-they even had to drill holes in our tile floor every 6 inches to let it air out! Not just some big fans-major work! I almost had to close daycare for the rest of the week, but we are managing okay today.

Anyway, I talked to the dcd, and he just said, "Honey, we only use a little toilet paper next time, okay? Okay, let's go, we are going out to dinner!" Then, this morning at drop off he said, "Well, lucky kids, you get to play upstairs today! Have a good day and be good! Bye!" NOTHING to me! Nothing like I'm sorry my kid caused $3500-10,000+ damage to your home. NOTHING at all! What do I do? What would you say? I'm speechless! I'm tempted to tell them that I can't take them for the rest of the week so they have to find alternate care, but I really don't know what to do! What would you do?

[countrymom]

holy crap I would be livid. Now I know things happen but this was intentinal and I would hold the parents hostage and explain the damage that was done to the house and what is going on, kinda leaving the ball in their court to see what they are going to see and do. they do need to pay for some of the damage, esp. at the age of 4 you know how to use the bathroom. If they refuse to pay then terminate. Like I said, if it was an accident sure but this kid seems to do alot of naughty things with toilet paper and the parents are aware.

[Missani]

Also, I forgot to mention that my own 4 year old was not innocent in this. He was sitting at the top of the stairs and said that dcb told him there was water coming out of the toilet and they both went to look at it before coming downstairs. He said it was "just dripping out of the toilet seat so he didn't tell me about it." Maybe so in the minds of a 4 year old, BUT, he is in trouble. He spent all last evening in his room not able to play with anything except books and went to bed 45 minutes early (right after dinner.) This morning we had a long talk and showed him all that needed to be done to fix the house. We discussed what problems "toilet paper games" can cause and how not following the rules can have major consequences.

Dcb, on the other hand, will never see a consequence in his life. That is what makes this so difficult to deal with. How can I show him that actions have consequences when his parents (at least dcd) do not? I already removed the toilet paper, kleenex, and paper towels from the room. They are issued one small piece of tp and one paper towel when they go in to go potty, and the entire trip is supervised. What else?

[melskids]

O-M-G!!!!!

that kids would definetly NOT be out of my sight EVER AGAIN, not even for a second. EVER.

i couldnt even afford that if that happened to me.

did you explain to the paretns how much it would be to repair?!?!?!

their butts would be getting a bill....at least half. cause honestly....dont get mad, but....you probably should not have left him, even for a second, knowing he had already caused some prior damage....

i would ask for a conference w/ the parents, and present them with a bill, for sure....

good luck!!!

[Unregistered]

I would term and tell parents you can no longer offer care based on his behavior. Today. Sorry, not going to risk that your child may cause that much damage to my house again tomorrow or the next day etc.

I also have it in my policies that parents can be held liable for damages even if accidental. I have never enforced it (never needed to) and I doubt these parents will pay you but I would make them very aware of the total cost this child has cost you.

[Blackcat31]

I'm with melskids on this one. Exactly like she said. Just like public schools, they have insurance for accidents but not for what I would be tempted to call outright vandalism. WOW!!!

[wdmmom]

I have a clause in my contract that specifically states that any damages caused by daycare children will be charged at a rate determined by me. Meaning, if their child caused that kind of damage, they would AT MINIMUM be paying my homeowner's deductible! ($1000) If they refused, I would terminate immediately, keep any portion of payment they have already made and file suit in small claims court. If you aren't turning it in to insurance, I would charge them 50-75% of the total bill...whatever you deem fit. I wouldn't attempt to "make" money on the deal but bring you back to where you were before damages.

I would tell the parents that you would like to schedule a meeting. At that time you can explain the damages, show estimates, etc. You can then tell them that you are requesting that they pay X amount of dollars to the repair work necessary for you to continue performing your services. If they refuse, tell them "THERE'S THE DOOR."

[daycare]

OMG no way I would be so mad taht i don't think that i would have even opened the door when they came in.

I really hope that you have insurance...Will they even cover something like this?

I am not sure if this is something that comes with The DC teritory or if the parents should be hold responsible for at least half of the fees..

I am interested to see what others have to say.....I am so sorry that this has happened to you and your family....


Big hugs

[AfterSchoolMom]

What does your contract say about this? I have a section that says that the parents are responsible for the cost of replacing intentionally broken/damaged items in my home. If they agreed to something like that, then approach them about payment for sure.

[Missani]

O-M-G!!!!!

that kids would definetly NOT be out of my sight EVER AGAIN, not even for a second. EVER.

i couldnt even afford that if that happened to me.

did you explain to the paretns how much it would be to repair?!?!?!

their butts would be getting a bill....at least half. cause honestly....dont get mad, but....you probably should not have left him, even for a second, knowing he had already caused some prior damage....

i would ask for a conference w/ the parents, and present them with a bill, for sure....

good luck!!!

No, I'm not mad at all, melskids. You are right. I guess I thought that because we had discussed it so many times and had made some changes and that I was supervising so much more that we were okay. Also, we had been lucky that no damage was caused before, so I guess I thought it would get better not worse. Ultimately, when the day is done, it is my fault because I wasn't directly supervising him the whole time. I have taken the portion of my blame, and I'm mad at myself. Something worse could have happened. Not that this is an excuse at all, but we all know that this is a chaotic time of day. It is difficult to clean up lunch, transition to nap, put food away, do dishes, change diapers and have potty time all at once. There is only one of me and 7 of them. I don't feel overwhelmed at that time, but it is a fact that they don't get as much of my undivided attention and supervision for those 10 minutes of the day as for the other 10 hours and 20 minutes of the day. That is a fact, and short of hiring someone from 12:30-12:45 every day, I don't know what else I can do. You can be sure he will NEVER be unsupervised again.

Thank goodness for homeowners insurance as they SHOULD cover the bulk of the cost. They tricky part is that it was intentional and not accidental. They are telling me that the fact that it was a 4-year old should help with that. We cannot afford that cost either.

As for the kid, I guess that's the problem. If it's my fault, which it is, then they shouldn't pay. BUT, a 4-year old should be capable of following directions, especially when he has been given them so many times. I guess, I think it's my responsibility to pay, BUT I expect an aplogy or a consequence for these intentional actions, or something. So, what is reasonable to expect? And, I think I have no choice but to put the child on a behavior plan. If he continues to intentionally break rules, not follow directions, and/or cause intentional damages then this will be documented. If things don't change according to pre-set guidelines in my handbook, I suppose I will consider termination. It's a shame, he's a nice kid...very funny and smart. I don't know, is this the right thing to do? What would you do? I just wish parents would teach kids that actions have consequences so that I didn't have to? How do we get around this?

[Missani]

Oh, and yes, I do have it in my policies that intentional damage is the parents responsibility.

[nannyde]

I feel badly for you that this happened but hopefully it can be a great lesson to all providers who read this post.

You can't allow small children unsupervised accesss to any standing or running water.

I don't allow kids in the bathroom without direct visual supervision and I don't allow them to flush. I flush the toilet so I can see what's going in it and down it.

For the amount of money this cost you you could have a staff assistant for MANY hours a week. It will cost more than you make on the four year old.

They gave you many TELLS that they were escalating their behavior while unsupervised. The FIRST instance of misbehavior (toilet paper all over the bathroom) was a shout out to you that they need direct visual supervision. This kind of behavior has to stop at the root or you will end up with damage or worst yet.. injury.

Lesson learned. I wouldn't mention it to the Dad at all. They weren't responsible for supervising the child during this time. I don't think they should really even be involved in disciplining him for it. A kid doesn't know the difference between one dollar of damage or ten thousand dollars of damage. All they know if they are in trouble right at that moment and then they start over again and be not in trouble.

You know now that this child needs an adult with eyes on him all the time. Maybe invest in some portable video cams to cover your supervision when you have to go from room to room or have him shadow you every day all day.

One thing is for sure... you won't do that again. That's the beauty of our big mistakes. Live and learn.

[daycare]

do you have anything in yourPHB about damages? I would ask that the family pay half of your deductable. I think that is only fair as it is part of their issues as well. Part yours for lack of direct supervision and part thiers for not putting an end to the problem when asked prior. Becuase the parents did not PARENT their child for his wrong doing, they should be part responsible....

[nannyde]

do you have anything in yourPHB about damages? I would ask that the family pay half of your deductable. I think that is only fair as it is part of their issues as well. Part yours for lack of direct supervision and part thiers for not putting an end to the problem when asked prior. Becuase the parents did not PARENT their child for his wrong doing, they should be part responsible....

I don't think the parents should have to pay ANYTHING for this or even discipline him for it. This is a supervision issues purely and simply. A kid playing with toilet paper is just a normal kid thing. A kid getting a roll into a toilet and flushing it is a supervision thing.

Neither of them are worth of parental intervention in my book. I would have only told them to warn them that he may pull it at their house. A proceed with caution heads up.

[Missani]

Nanny, I do agree with you in that I will need to directly supervise. However, this child is old enough to follow the basics of going to the bathroom. He will be starting kindergarten in less than 4 months, and I'm sure that if this were to happen there, responsibility would be placed on the child. By almost 5 years old, I do not feel it is an unreasonable expectation to use the bathroom, wipe (with help if requested-which this child sometimes does), and flush. They then wash hands in my direct supervision. I am present for at least 50% of the time, however, they should be able to do this unassisted. I discussed this with my licensor to make sure I am running a safe operation with the equipment here, and she agrees with me that this child is intentionally trying to cause damage. I feel this is the problem that needs to be addressed. I do not expect his family to pay for damages (as I posted) but I do expect the family to help me teach this child the basic rules of self-independence (toileting), the importance of following directions, the fact that not following directions causes problems/consequences, and the fact that we must respect property (ok, he's 4, maybe just the beginnings of this one). Isn't that what I'm supposed to "teach" at this age? To me, it is equally important, if not more, to teach these basic life skills as it is to teach numbers and letters at this age. I am sending him to kindergarten without these skills, obviously, and you don't think it's important for his family to help me teach them? This is where we must disagree, because I thought these were the important skills you thought kids should know and parents should teach before kindergarten.

As far as the expensive mistake, I have taken the blame and have learned my lesson.