New Child Needs Constant Redirection. WWYD?

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

We just enrolled two new children, which is awsome since our enrollment has been so low recently that we haven't been able to hardly make it. Today is only their 2nd day. The little sister (2) seems to do really well, but her brother (3) needs constant redirection for EVERYthing. Especially meals and snacks, and transitions like clean up or washing hands. I understand being new here and never being in childcare before, but when he has to be constantly told again and again what he needs to be doing at the moment, it gets really frustrating. Exp: lunch time- his plate is set down in front of him. He ignores it and gets up to play. He's told to go back to his seat. He slowly walks back over to the table. Sits, but still doesn't pay any attention to his food, as if it's not even there. Maybe two seconds later, he's up again. Redirected to chair...2 seconds later up again...repeat the pattern the entire lunch time! The others all know the rules and stay in their chair until they're finished (even the 2 yr old sister). It didn't take long at all for new dcb to get tired of not being allowed to get up, so he crosses his arms over his chest, bows his head, and looks up at us with a big frown, "I don't want to". He's even crawling under the table to get away from us when told to sit down again. If he's already this stubborn, but will a month bring? His behavior is fine so far. He doesn't hit or kick the others (like one child we had to term), and he seems really sweet during free play and all that. He's a really calm little boy. Would be SO easy, if not for just ignoring our directions, and telling us no. I realize it's typical of two yr olds, but he's almost 3 1/2, and our just turned 3 yr olds even mind better than that. So, what should we do? We have a two week trial period, so see how next week goes? I'm just afraid of what he'll be like once he's used to us if he already ignores directions like this. Nap time today was horrible! Refused to stay on his cot. Finally got tired of not being allowed to get up and play, so stood up, balled hands into fists at his side, and screamed really quick. In the MIDDLE of nap when almost everyone else was asleep. By the way, we only take 2 yrs and up, so we don't have any highchairs or pack n plays, otherwise he would have been in one!
Suggestions are welcome. Am I just over reacting (I'm about worn out from the redirection having to be CONSTANT)? When you have a new child start, and you continue redirecting and being firm with the rules, how long does it take before they get it? The other children have been great examples for the two new ones, so at least we have that in our favor for teaching him the rules...not that he pays any attention to them...they even try to tell him the rules, and he ignores them.

[daycare]

they say it take 21 days to form a new habit good or bad....so hang in there and keep putting your foot down. I really think that you need to wait it out to the 2 week trail and re evaluate him.... I had a kid like this that just wanted to see what he could get away with here. It took him a good three weeks, but I was seeing progress being made slowly just after the first week.

[cheerfuldom]

I think you should hang in there for a few more days and hopefully get some progress. It sounds like he does have a lot of positive points but just isn't used to having to be in one spot for any length of time. I really do think it will get better with time.

[Meyou]

I think you need to give it a 2 week trial period. He sounds like he's testing in a normal 3 year old way but also just doesn't quite get how to be part of a group yet. I personally give new children at least a week to adjust to their new surrounding before I make any judgements about them (negative or positive). I've had both experiences.....the difficult child at the start that ended up being a dream and the easy child at the start who turned on me once they got used to me. ::

I have one little guy that's 4.5 now and I've had him since he was 1.5. I remember the end of the second day...it was about 4 pm and we were outside and I had redirected him for the hundredth time off the driveway back onto the lawn and thought, "I'm not going to be able to keep this little guy." But on day 7 it was like a switch flicked on and he has been awesome ever since.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Thanks for the advice! I hadn't meant we'd do something like term him on the spot just because he ignores the rules on his 2nd day. I'm just really concerned because it's been my experience that when a child starts out like this, it ony gets worse, the more used to us they get. Some of the children start out okay with only a couple little things that we think will be easy to take care of, but then we get past the 2 week trial period, and their behavior gets horrible. I've never had a child who needs this much redirection to do what he's supposed to. I've posted a few times about certain children who get stubborn and decide to quit listening, but with this child, I'm not even stretching it, we have to stay by his side the whole time he's supposed to do something besides just play. And even then he still takes off.
Whew, breaking in new children is hard work! We've gotten so lucky with the last two new ones. They settled right in as if they'd always been here. But these newest ones I guess are just not used to being in daycare. It's always been their mom or Grandma caring for them during the day. Plus they're only part time, so most likely by the time they start making progress that week, they'll have a few days off, and then have to start all over again. They come 1 day, off 1 day, come 2 more days, then off 3 days. ugh... I really think full timers would be a lot easier! But then, right now I am SO SO glad they're not full timers!

[momatheart]

bribe him, LOL.

It seems to me that he is just testing you and seeing if he can control the situation. Did he come from a daycare that was at grandma's or an aunt? Or a first time daycare kid? Keep redirecting him and stick to your rules.

I have kids in my class that need constant redirection and it DRIVES ME NUTS!

[Abigail]

I would make sure to keep the parents informed about some of the little things so they can work on it at home. You should ask how he does at meal time and what their routine is or rules at the table?.....maybe they put him in a highchair at home, you never know these days! LOL You should ask the same questions about nap time. I think it's great you have two newbies and the one isn't as difficult.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

I would make sure to keep the parents informed about some of the little things so they can work on it at home. You should ask how he does at meal time and what their routine is or rules at the table?.....maybe they put him in a highchair at home, you never know these days! LOL You should ask the same questions about nap time. I think it's great you have two newbies and the one isn't as difficult.

Thank you! That is a very good idea! I wish we had thought to do that when we did mention to his mom how his day had gone. I get the feeling she's very very very picky and a huge perfectionist. They interviewed a ton of daycares before choosing us, so I'm afraid of doing the "wrong thing". When the owner did mention it to the mom, she looked really disappointed, like she didn't expect him to have any problems, and maybe we had been the wrong choice for them. Next time we have to mention anything to her, we'll be sure to ask about their home routines. I get the feeling he's used to grazing at the table. Come get a bite, go play, come back for another bite, go play some more...Very different from how we do it. Like a lot of daycares the children all sit and eat together, like a family. When everyone's finished we dismiss and they can throw their trash away and clear their spot at the table. They are not allowed to get up until everyone's finished. I think it's just good table manners to wait. Besides that, the children spend more time talking with each other and us, and actually eating, rather than being so busy wanting to go play that they can't even eat or talk to anyone.

momatheart, they have never ever been in daycare before. It's always been individual care from the parents or Grandma. So they came from one on one care to 10 other children besides the two of them, on some days.
Oh and by the way, if it was just sitting that was the problem, I'd just assume it was from expecting so much from a 3 yr old who's not used to sitting. But it's anytime he has to do anything. Like not going out the gate on the playground, or picking up his toys, or staying with the group instead of running off when we're outside, or getting off his cot every two seconds and refusing to come back on his own, or having to constantly be redirected to the bathroom to wash hands, or not running out the front door without a teacher or parent, etc etc etc! Mostly it's just wearing me out, trying to redirect him for everything and keeping track of him, and trying to care for and give attention to the other children as well.

[nannyde]

Thank you! That is a very good idea! I wish we had thought to do that when we did mention to his mom how his day had gone. I get the feeling she's very very very picky and a huge perfectionist. They interviewed a ton of daycares before choosing us, so I'm afraid of doing the "wrong thing". When the owner did mention it to the mom, she looked really disappointed, like she didn't expect him to have any problems, and maybe we had been the wrong choice for them. Next time we have to mention anything to her, we'll be sure to ask about their home routines. I get the feeling he's used to grazing at the table. Come get a bite, go play, come back for another bite, go play some more...Very different from how we do it. Like a lot of daycares the children all sit and eat together, like a family. When everyone's finished we dismiss and they can throw their trash away and clear their spot at the table. They are not allowed to get up until everyone's finished. I think it's just good table manners to wait. Besides that, the children spend more time talking with each other and us, and actually eating, rather than being so busy wanting to go play that they can't even eat or talk to anyone.

momatheart, they have never ever been in daycare before. It's always been individual care from the parents or Grandma. So they came from one on one care to 10 other children besides the two of them, on some days.
Oh and by the way, if it was just sitting that was the problem, I'd just assume it was from expecting so much from a 3 yr old who's not used to sitting. But it's anytime he has to do anything. Like not going out the gate on the playground, or picking up his toys, or staying with the group instead of running off when we're outside, or getting off his cot every two seconds and refusing to come back on his own, or having to constantly be redirected to the bathroom to wash hands, or not running out the front door without a teacher or parent, etc etc etc! Mostly it's just wearing me out, trying to redirect him for everything and keeping track of him, and trying to care for and give attention to the other children as well.

I would give it at least a month with him being part time. With him just being there a couple of days, it's hard to tell if he will settle down. If this continues then you will know that it is him not the newness of the situation.

I think you may be assessing the parent wrong. A parent who is very very picky and a perfectionist does not have a child for three years old that acts like a little animal when they are in public. At his age you should not have to provide one to one care in order for him to be able to do the simplest day to day tasks and MIND you when you tell him to comply to simple commands like: don't go there, come here, sit down, lie down, pick up toys, wait here.... etc.

A perfectionist parent expects the child to follow directions and do the RIGHT thing.

She is more likely a parent who wants HIM to be perfectly happy. That's how you end up with a child that behaves like he is behaving with you. If a little child gets to decide how he is going to behave then you end up with a kid that gets up when you say sit down... a child that runs away when you say come here... a child that gets off the cot and refuses to go back to it when you are telling him lay and stay down. His reactions to your directions are showing you that HE has had YEARS of having adults doing whatever it takes to keep him from crying. In order for him not to cry he has to do what he wants to do.

He's showing you that he has to do what he wants to do and the parent is showing you that what she wants from you is for you to allow him to do what he wants to do.

The owner needs to sit her down and tell her the TRUTH. Tell her exactly what he is doing and how he CAN'T do that in public.

She needs to tell them: When my staff tells him to sit at the table he gets up, runs around, crawls under the table, and REFUSES to return to the chair. We are telling him to sit and stay and he is REFUSING.

When my staff tells him to lie down on the cot he is getting up. He is running around the room and he REFUSES to come back to the cot. When we take him to the cot he REFUSES to lay down and stay down.

When we line up to go outside he REFUSES to stand in line. When we tell him to stay inside until we open the door he REFUSES to stay inside. We tell him to not touch the door and he touches the door.

When we are outside we are telling him to not touch the gate. He REFUSES to leave the gate alone. We tell him to stay in the gated area and he REFUSES to stay in. He touches the gate and goes out the gate.

And on and on and on...

Be specific with her and hammer the bottom line: Your child does not mind us. He HAS to mind us. He HAS to do what we tell him to do. At this point we have to have an adult just for him. You are paying for group care. That means the adult that has him must be able to care for other children alongside your son. In order for them to safely do that all the children must do what the adults tell them to do.

It may seem overzealous but with this generation of parents it is becoming necessary to explain things very concretely and specificly. They have been raised in a culture where they truly believe that their child should be free to do as they please.

[Unregistered]

Thank you Nannyde, I'm glad to see we think along the same lines.... What's really sad is the government coming in and limiting any discipline parents and teachers/caregivers can do. They're scared to death to discipline children anymore. The state requires us to get our CDA's, where they pretty much teach that you cannot make a child do what they don't want to. If they don't want to sit during circle time, you're supposed to let them get up and go off somewhere else to do whatever they please (sorry, not enough eyes around here for that to happen), or if they don't want to sit during meals or snacks you should let them get up and play, if they don't want to lay down and be quiet for nap time, you should let them get up and do something quiet (like his attention span would stay on something quiet the entire two hours!), if you're in the middle of circle time and they decide they're thirsty, you can't make them wait. If they're still playing, but it's clean up time, you should not make them clean their toys up because they're still working and want to come back to it.

We had an observation the other day from state, and the lady mentioned a few of these things we were doing "wrong". It's so frustrating when they limit everything and pretty much tell you that you have to keep the child happy at all costs and let them do whatever they want, whenever they want to. You can't even have them sit in time out for hitting someone! (Obviously we can't follow all these "rules" or our children would be running the daycare, telling US what to do, and killing each other in the meantime ).

ANYWAY, back to this dcb. The owner has let the mom know that his behavior has to change in order for him to stay here (he and his sister are here 3 days a week, but they aren't consecutive days). It sounds like she's trying to work with us, and says she is surprised by his behavior here. That he doesn't do this at home. Like you said, maybe he doesn't have to act this way at home because he's allowed to do whatever he wants there. I shouldn't judge, since I don't know that for sure, but that's usually the case.

I meant she's a perfectionist as in wanting the "perfect" daycare and the "perfect" people to do it. I can understand that, of course, but there is no such thing as a "perfect" daycare because people cannot be perfect, as hard as they might try. When a parent thinks they've chosen the "perfect" daycare for their child when they enroll them here, I know we aren't perfect, and eventually we're going to do something the parent doesn't like. Things happen beyond our control. Or maybe they sign the policy and then when it's enforced they don't like it. And then all of a sudden they are extremely disappointed in us because we weren't "perfect" like they thought.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

Thank you Nannyde, I'm glad to see we think along the same lines.... What's really sad is the government coming in and limiting any discipline parents and teachers/caregivers can do. They're scared to death to discipline children anymore. The state requires us to get our CDA's, where they pretty much teach that you cannot make a child do what they don't want to. If they don't want to sit during circle time, you're supposed to let them get up and go off somewhere else to do whatever they please (sorry, not enough eyes around here for that to happen), or if they don't want to sit during meals or snacks you should let them get up and play, if they don't want to lay down and be quiet for nap time, you should let them get up and do something quiet (like his attention span would stay on something quiet the entire two hours!), if you're in the middle of circle time and they decide they're thirsty, you can't make them wait. If they're still playing, but it's clean up time, you should not make them clean their toys up because they're still working and want to come back to it.

We had an observation the other day from state, and the lady mentioned a few of these things we were doing "wrong". It's so frustrating when they limit everything and pretty much tell you that you have to keep the child happy at all costs and let them do whatever they want, whenever they want to. You can't even have them sit in time out for hitting someone! (Obviously we can't follow all these "rules" or our children would be running the daycare, telling US what to do, and killing each other in the meantime ).

ANYWAY, back to this dcb. The owner has let the mom know that his behavior has to change in order for him to stay here (he and his sister are here 3 days a week, but they aren't consecutive days). It sounds like she's trying to work with us, and says she is surprised by his behavior here. That he doesn't do this at home. Like you said, maybe he doesn't have to act this way at home because he's allowed to do whatever he wants there. I shouldn't judge, since I don't know that for sure, but that's usually the case.

I meant she's a perfectionist as in wanting the "perfect" daycare and the "perfect" people to do it. I can understand that, of course, but there is no such thing as a "perfect" daycare because people cannot be perfect, as hard as they might try. When a parent thinks they've chosen the "perfect" daycare for their child when they enroll them here, I know we aren't perfect, and eventually we're going to do something the parent doesn't like. Things happen beyond our control. Or maybe they sign the policy and then when it's enforced they don't like it. And then all of a sudden they are extremely disappointed in us because we weren't "perfect" like they thought.

I guess I wasn't paying attention. I didn't get logged in for this and realized it just as soon as I hit "post". Sorry about that.