Behavior! Help And Advice Please

[daycare]

I am looking for some valid advice on how to better handle this situation:
I have a DCB who is 4.5. This child has been in my care for about one year and also happens to be my 3.0 year old son’s favorite person to play with. The child is very sweet by nature and very very smart. He is extremely hyper and always in a great mood. He is in my care about 10 hours a day m-f. I teach a structed program here and offer plenty of consistency.

The issue is that the child has behavior issues that I have NOT been successfully been able to control. Now these behavior issues are starting to rub off on other children. Especially my son.


I have talked to mom several times about these issues, she is very open to my advice and she feels horrible that he acts this way. She did say that he acts this way at home as well and that she feels like pulling her hair out daily. She informed me that his dad (they are divorced and dad lives in another state) is severely ADHD. She asked if I thought her son has ADHD and I told her that I have no ability to diagnosis anyone as ADHD, but perhaps she should follow up with his doctor and express her concerns. She did this and the doctor asked that I fill out a document stating the issues he is having daily……here is what is going on:

The following happen daily,

Arrival (first to arrive always) we talk about how we are going to have a great day today and quickly talk about the rules of the house that he is expected to follow. Like today we will play nicely and not throw cars, we will listen to Miss_______words and play safe. We will have a great day…. He also has a smiley face sticker chart here and at home.

He Does not listen, cannot listen (ex: I will say please get your shoes so we can get ready to go outside, this child will take 10 min to do this task, as he will stop to play with everything on the way to going to get his shoes.

Everything like the light switches, the plants, or just run his fingers along the wall. He will forget what the task was. I have to remind him all the time what the task is that he needs to do. THIS IS WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE DO, BATHROOM, CLEAN UP, AND ETC.

Constant potty mouth, talks about body parts, functions, etc. Talks about horrible, horrible things that he must be seeing/hearing from adult movies. Things such as: someone is going to come and cut your head off while you are sleeping on your mat and you will die?
Noise…………he cannot play quietly at any time and cannot control the ability to constantly make loud and rude noises.

Constant unsafe play and inappropriate play of toys: Throws cars, blocks, really anything he can get his hands on. We are currently playing with huge empty boxes and he decided to take them, stack them and then kick them down so that they hit other children. I have asked him a million times, please don’t do that, it’s not safe and it’s not nice. He is very sympathetic if he hurts someone and feels bad, but he keeps repeating the same unsafe situations over and over again.

I have done everything that I can to try to resolve this issue and NOTHING works. I have no clue if he is ADHD and even if he is, I can deal with it. I have two other boys here in care that are and they are not medicated, but they are responsive to me and my program.

Today, I had to pull him from the circle time after asking him a million times to stop kicking his legs in the air (he almost kicked someone in the face several times). I sat him on the other side of the play gate and made him watch everyone else participate properly. I did not give him a time out and I DID make him participate away from everyone else. This also included meal times as well. While everyone was eating, I had him sit with a book and then when everyone finished I allowed him to eat alone. Am I wrong for doing this? I really want him to see that his behavior is not accepted here and he will not be able to join the community if he cannot participate properly.
I don’t know what else to do with this child and am desperate to find a solution to help him, as well as his mom.
Advice please

[youretooloud]

We all have our threshold.... mine would be the throwing toys... I think I could handle most of the other things. The potty mouth would run a close second.

When you say you "ask him to stop". How are you asking? Is it actually ASKING?? As in it's optional.. and, he has opted not to listen? Or is it clearly NOT asking, and not optional, but he can't control his behavior?

[daycare]

sorry I tell him exactly this.
You will not throw toys, it is not ok and it is not safe.

[Unregistered]

Sounds to me like he is over stimulated and has to constantly have commotion or attention to function. I know adults with mental illness that suffer the same things you stated.

Try this: Get a little out of routine. Kids learn routine very easily. It can become boring or tedious to them. Minimize toys and activities. Only allow one activity at a time with no other option. Everyone else colors pictures, you color pictures. Give him a color picture and crayons and see if he actually has the ability to complete the task or if he's getting up, looking for other stimulating activities. Try separating him if he's becoming disruptive. Try playing the "Quiet Game".

Does he nap during the day? Is he quiet then?

As for the potty mouth, the best suggestion I can offer is to discipline him appropriately. If you do time out, put him in time out. If you are making the rules very apparent and he's just continuing to disregard them, you have to step it up some.

He's running game on you because he's got the upper hand. You need to re-establish authority. Mean business and follow through.

Good luck!

[daycare]

Sounds to me like he is over stimulated and has to constantly have commotion or attention to function. I know adults with mental illness that suffer the same things you stated.

Try this: Get a little out of routine. Kids learn routine very easily. It can become boring or tedious to them. Minimize toys and activities. Only allow one activity at a time with no other option. Everyone else colors pictures, you color pictures. Give him a color picture and crayons and see if he actually has the ability to complete the task or if he's getting up, looking for other stimulating activities. Try separating him if he's becoming disruptive. Try playing the "Quiet Game".

Does he nap during the day? Is he quiet then?

As for the potty mouth, the best suggestion I can offer is to discipline him appropriately. If you do time out, put him in time out. If you are making the rules very apparent and he's just continuing to disregard them, you have to step it up some.

He's running game on you because he's got the upper hand. You need to re-establish authority. Mean business and follow through.

Good luck!

thanks so much for the advice... here is the interesting thing. He can sit and particiapte with the rest of the kids when it comes to story time, coloring, art, and so on. I do only allow one activity at a time. if they are playing cars, then they may only play with that toy at the time. This is when i run into probelms.... free play and completing tasks......
He does nap at nap time and I often have to wake him up. mom says he goes to bed at 7:30-8:00 and wakes around 7am daily.

[TBird]

He sounds like maybe he could use Early Intervention services??? Not sure if they do that in every state (or if he's too old already) but it's FREE and they could probably evaluate him at your house. She needs to show you a plan of action....as much for her and her son as for you! As long as she's understanding, follows your policies, and is GETTING HELP I would suggest sticking it out a bit longer if you can. Good luck Sweetie...sounds like you're a great provider!

[youretooloud]

sorry I tell him exactly this.
You will not throw toys, it is not ok and it is not safe.

Hmm... that's what I was going to suggest. LOL.

It's probably a good thing that he's such a happy infectious kid, because I bet that's why he gets away with so much. I'm not much help... but, I feel your pain.

[daycare]

He sounds like maybe he could use Early Intervention services??? Not sure if they do that in every state (or if he's too old already) but it's FREE and they could probably evaluate him at your house. She needs to show you a plan of action....as much for her and her son as for you! As long as she's understanding, follows your policies, and is GETTING HELP I would suggest sticking it out a bit longer if you can. Good luck Sweetie...sounds like you're a great provider!

Would i do through my local school district to do this? I know that the mom would be open to it... i actually found out that he had been through 8 daycares in the last 2 years. I guess no one could deal with him. I honestly love the kid and really want to help, but I just feel at a loss that I don't know how to help him.....

[morgan24]

I had one who could not control himself at all a few years ago, very similar to the one you have. I know he was also watching adult movies. He was mean if I turned my back on him, pinching and pushing the other kids. I gave him his own space to go to when he couldn't play nice or talked naughty, or mean. When he couldn't control himself, he went to his area with some toys to play on his own. When I first started that when he would throw a toys I would say Little Guy go to your space and he would grumble about it but I never answered him just took his hand and took him. I would let him play and then I would let him go back and play with the others until it started to happen again and he would go back to his own space. I used a big car rug for his space, you could use anything, a blanket or rug. Even for circle time maybe you could give him a rug to sit on and tell him that is his space. My guy needed to have his own space. I didn't let anyone else in it because it was his. It was like he need a moment to collect himself.

I would encourage them to follow up at the doctor. We have Parents as Teachers that will do testing and help come up ideas to help that don't involve meds. Maybe you have a program for preschoolers that will do something like that.

[Blackcat31]

Some times routines can be a litle too confining...kwim? and as a pp said, you should try to mix it up a bit so he cannot fore see when an activity is going to happen.

He is obviously a busy child and sometimes those are the ones who like to mix it up a bit. For example, when you mentioned his legs in the air kicking during circle time. I don't require anyone to participate in circle. It is a choice and if they choose not to participate then supply them with an alternate activity. As far as the 'go and get your shoes on' problem, you could either walk him to the shoes so he is not distracted on the way or maybe give him a job to do that gives him responsibilty to focus on; such as "Billy, get Jane's shoes out and ready for her so she can put them on" etc.....responsibilty can be a distraction sometimes.

I also feel that the potty talk is sort of just an age thing. That is probably one behavior I would choose to ignore. Unless of course his actions hurt others or he is swearing. If he is saying things to get a rise out of you or others, he is succeeding. I would try to say something like "Billy can we try to think of a better topic to talk about?" or "Let's try to find a different way to tell Jane we are frustrated with her" if you have to intervene.

One of the first things I learned when dealing with a challenging behavior was to look at the environment. Physical and emotional. I would try to make a few physical changes in the environment and see if you are getting the same results. Good luck! It is always those busy ones that keep us on our toes, but they are also the ones that teach us the most!

[TBird]

Would i do through my local school district to do this? I know that the mom would be open to it... i actually found out that he had been through 8 daycares in the last 2 years. I guess no one could deal with him. I honestly love the kid and really want to help, but I just feel at a loss that I don't know how to help him.....

I believe you can maybe check the Internet or check with the Childcare Council in your area??? And yes...definitely ask the school district. I would also check the Library...our library actually HOSTS Early Intervention sessions - we can bring the children right to the library for their evaluation!!! Please let us know how you make out and how the mom likes that suggestion. Sounds like the little fella will need to get some help before Kindergarten.....

[Blackcat31]

checkout some of the information and training modules on these sites. LOTS of good and useful information.

http://csefel.vanderbilt.edu/resources/training_modules.html

http://www.inclusivechildcare.org/index.cfm

[daycare]

Some times routines can be a litle too confining...kwim? and as a pp said, you should try to mix it up a bit so he cannot fore see when an activity is going to happen.

He is obviously a busy child and sometimes those are the ones who like to mix it up a bit. For example, when you mentioned his legs in the air kicking during circle time. I don't require anyone to participate in circle. It is a choice and if they choose not to participate then supply them with an alternate activity. As far as the 'go and get your shoes on' problem, you could either walk him to the shoes so he is not distracted on the way or maybe give him a job to do that gives him responsibilty to focus on; such as "Billy, get Jane's shoes out and ready for her so she can put them on" etc.....responsibilty can be a distraction sometimes.

I also feel that the potty talk is sort of just an age thing. That is probably one behavior I would choose to ignore. Unless of course his actions hurt others or he is swearing. If he is saying things to get a rise out of you or others, he is succeeding. I would try to say something like "Billy can we try to think of a better topic to talk about?" or "Let's try to find a different way to tell Jane we are frustrated with her" if you have to intervene.

One of the first things I learned when dealing with a challenging behavior was to look at the environment. Physical and emotional. I would try to make a few physical changes in the environment and see if you are getting the same results. Good luck! It is always those busy ones that keep us on our toes, but they are also the ones that teach us the most!

I guess I should have said that my program is not predictable and it is not ran the same exact way every day. I do plan my day, but I am also realistic. I try to teach lessons that I see the kids feeding off of and if they show no interest we move on. I do allow for the children to have the option to NOT participate in circle time, however, this is not possible for this child, as he will create issues to distract those that wish to participate. Honestly, I can’t recall a time when a child other than my own little guy did not want to participate in circle time within the last year.
Everything that I plan revolves around movement, as well as allowing them to use large and small motor skills.
As for the potty mouth, I do ignore it most of the time. If it is really bad, I will intervene and say let’s try to find another word to use like funky money…. let them come up with a list of silly words to use instead of using bad words or inappropriate words. Like holly mollie Ollie..
This past week, I took out all of the very small amount of toys that I do have in the room and we had to create our own toys. We made all of our toys/paint/play dough/ and etc. Still there were nonstop issues….

[daycare]

I believe you can maybe check the Internet or check with the Childcare Council in your area??? And yes...definitely ask the school district. I would also check the Library...our library actually HOSTS Early Intervention sessions - we can bring the children right to the library for their evaluation!!! Please let us know how you make out and how the mom likes that suggestion. Sounds like the little fella will need to get some help before Kindergarten.....

this is my fear... I want him to be seen for his great personality and brains.....I don't want the behavior to label him....

[daycare]

checkout some of the information and training modules on these sites. LOTS of good and useful information.

http://csefel.vanderbilt.edu/resources/training_modules.html

http://www.inclusivechildcare.org/index.cfm

you rock...thank you so much for your help.....