Help Please!!

[Christian Mother]

I have a parent who has requested her 2 yr old son to be put down for a nap at 10am and woken up at 12 noon...no more then a 2 hr nap bc he is not sleeping through the entire night. My other 2 daycare children are also very close to 2 yrs of age and they have lunch at 10:45am and go to sleep at 11:15-30am and sleep til 2:30pm. This parent would like me to feed him something light and then when he wakes up feed him again something like. It has been getting very hard as I do not have a break at all during my long
7am - 4:30pm day. I can't seem to find time to eat lunch or have a break that I think is important. These parents are just so fed up with waking up every night that I can tell there almost at the point of not wanting him to have a nap at all. He is a new 2 yr old and to be honest he does not take to being woken up early from his naps. He used to go down with the rest of the kids and sleep til 2:30-45pm. He is just so grumpy and i worry about my other kids napping and him waking them up bc he is still just so tired but his parents said they don't care they want him up so he will sleep through the night. I am not sure this will solve the problem they are having with him at night. I need to talk to these parents tomorrow and express that it really isn't fair to my other children that they can not have a full restful nap bc there child is cranky and up set when I wake him up. How would you express this or would you just put up with it...I just don't know what to do...!!

[Little People]

You say the 2 year old sleeps from around 11:30 to 2:30 - 2:45, to me that is a long nap. But I know some at that age depending on the time they get up, they will sleep longer. My 2 years olds sleep from 12:00 to 2:00.

But if parent is wanting you to nap him at their times and that will not work for you, then you will have to tell the parents that there is no way that schedule will not work with you. If you have your nap times listed in your handbook and they signed it, then they know.

You may just have to tell them and be firm what your nap times are and don't back down.

[SilverSabre25]

You say the 2 year old sleeps from around 11:30 to 2:30 - 2:45, to me that is a long nap. But I know some at that age depending on the time they get up, they will sleep longer. My 2 years olds sleep from 12:00 to 2:00.

But if parent is wanting you to nap him at their times and that will not work for you, then you will have to tell the parents that there is no way that schedule will not work with you. If you have your nap times listed in your handbook and they signed it, then they know.

You may just have to tell them and be firm what your nap times are and don't back down.

I agree with this.

Also, if he's a new 2, he might not have 2-year molars yet and be working on those, hence the night-waking. He might also not be developmentally ready to sleep through the night if he never has.

Naps are not negotiable in my house. Kids need their rest and *I* need my rest. I've had a lot of luck with getting difficult nappers to nap and nap WELL at my house--firm pre-nap routine, dark room, going to sleep on a nice full tummy, and good white noise keep them asleep. They take good LONG naps here, and I get frequent reports from parents that their kids are sleeping better at home.

Sleep begets sleep--depriving a tired child of his needed nap will make for an OVERtired child who doesn't sleep as well at home that night. A well-rested child will sleep better at night because they are not overtired. Think about how you feel as an adult when you're overtired--it gets to a point where you're so tired, you can't sleep/sleep well, and you wake up a lot or can't fall asleep in the first place. It's the same with kids.

What I would do in your case, is the old "smile and nod" and send the parents out the door, then continue to make sure he's getting good, solid naps and lots of hard, active play...what the parents don't know won't hurt 'em, and he'll probably start sleeping better soon.

[AnythingsPossible]

If you want to try and work with the parents in what they ask. Tell them you will do a 2 hour nap, but it will be during the regular nap time, you will just wake him earlier then the other children.
The reason he is not sleeping through the night may have to do with the parents and nothing at all to do with how long he naps at daycare. My neices still do not consistently sleep through the night at 9 and 5 because they aren't made to. They make a noise mom checks on them. You may want to share with them some sleep techniques and ask them how their night time routine goes.

[nannyde]

This is a very simple fix.

Tell them that the fee you are charging them is a group fee where all kids nap from 11:30 to 2:30. With his new schedule he will be sleeping one half hour of that time.

Your fee for giving him one to one care during nap time is 10 dollars an hour. So you will need an additional 25 dollars per day for a "no nap during nap" fee.

This fee covers your additional time in the evening that you will need to get the things done you normally do when they are sleeping: your paid break, cleaning, bookkeeping, dishes, meal prep etc.

Tell them that their decision can be done daily and just pay you on arrival for whatever hours they would like him up at nap.

This keeps you out of the loop of discussing whether or not he needs a nap which is VERY important in these discussions. You will always loose a "what he needs" discussion because they are his parents and they know him best.

The other route is to tell them you don't provide services to children who don't NEED a full afternoon nap.

If you are looking for a way to talk them into it I wish you luck. They want an easy early bed time and no amount of words other than "NO" or "yes but you pay" or going to talk them out of the easy early for free bed time.

[Lianne]

I don't 'put up with' anything in my home daycare. This is my business and I'll be the one who decides who sleeps when and for how long so that the needs of my group as a whole (including myself) are met. Parents may ask if a change in routine would work for me, and if it will, I'll implement the change. However, no parent will dictate to me how I do my job. If the parents are having trouble getting their child to sleep or having him stay asleep, that's their problem, not yours.Their parenting needs to change in some way to better facillitate sleep for their child. If that child naps til 2:30pm and then goes to bed at 7:30pm (which is kind of early in my opinion) that's five hours that the child has to tire out again, plenty of time to expend energy.

If I were in your shoes I would keep the child napping with the others, from 11:30-2:30, if that's what's been working for you. You are doing group care, not nanny care for several children. In group care the children, for the most part, all follow the same schedule.

[marniewon]

Naps are not negotiable in my house. Kids need their rest and *I* need my rest.

Exactly this. A 2 year old will take naps here. Our nap time is 1-3. I usually put them down around 12:45-1 and I don't wake them up. They usually wake up around 3 or 3:30. I do have one that will sleep until 4 or later. I'm not sure I'd do the "smile and nod" thing, because if the parents think they have that much control over your business, it might spill over into other areas, and pretty soon you will be changing up your whole schedule and ways you do things just because these parents think they can run YOUR business.

[mickey2]

This is a very simple fix.

Tell them that the fee you are charging them is a group fee where all kids nap from 11:30 to 2:30. With his new schedule he will be sleeping one half hour of that time.

Your fee for giving him one to one care during nap time is 10 dollars an hour. So you will need an additional 25 dollars per day for a "no nap during nap" fee.

This fee covers your additional time in the evening that you will need to get the things done you normally do when they are sleeping: your paid break, cleaning, bookkeeping, dishes, meal prep etc.

Tell them that their decision can be done daily and just pay you on arrival for whatever hours they would like him up at nap.

This keeps you out of the loop of discussing whether or not he needs a nap which is VERY important in these discussions. You will always loose a "what he needs" discussion because they are his parents and they know him best.

The other route is to tell them you don't provide services to children who don't NEED a full afternoon nap.

If you are looking for a way to talk them into it I wish you luck. They want an easy early bed time and no amount of words other than "NO" or "yes but you pay" or going to talk them out of the easy early for free bed time.

I agree!!

Every child naps here from 1-3. Unless the parents want to pay a maid to come and do all of the things I really need to do while they sleep there are not going to be any exceptions!

Parents really have no idea what a long day this is for us! I would like to see them work through their lunch and coffee breaks EVERYDAY like we all do!

[SilverSabre25]

Naps are not negotiable in my house. Kids need their rest and *I* need my rest.

In light of that thread earlier this week, allow me to clarify and say that by rest I don't mean *sleep* I mean relax and get stuff done and rest from having to chase after small children.

[countrymom]

has he had sleep problems before at night. I'm just wondering if this is a new thing or old thing. I agree with the others. Everyone naps at the same time 1-3:30 (many of the kids takes about 15 mins to fall asleep) I think the problem is that his routine is way crazy. Who feeds a child a small meal before he goes to sleep and then another small meal after he wakes up. Also, that nap time you have is too early. Nap is non negotiable here too,

[nannyde]

Who feeds a child a small meal before he goes to sleep and then another small meal after he wakes up.

They are just heading the provider off from her response that if he slept from ten to twelve that he would miss lunch. This way he gets a special pre nap meal and a special post nap meal.

This means she gets to one to one him twice for meals when she would just be having him in the group during lunch. Then she gets to one to one him for 2.5 hours during nap.

So just with their "words" they get to turn 3 plus hour a day into one to one private care when they are paying for group care. Just a few words to the provider and BAM you get 3 hours a day... 15 hours a week of "my child" for free.

[Christian Mother]

You say the 2 year old sleeps from around 11:30 to 2:30 - 2:45, to me that is a long nap. But I know some at that age depending on the time they get up, they will sleep longer. My 2 years olds sleep from 12:00 to 2:00.

But if parent is wanting you to nap him at their times and that will not work for you, then you will have to tell the parents that there is no way that schedule will not work with you. If you have your nap times listed in your handbook and they signed it, then they know.

You may just have to tell them and be firm what your nap times are and don't back down.

Yes, some of them can sleep up to that amount of time...but most have transitioned into just 2 yrs. so if they go down for a nap at 11am then there up at 1pm. I am totally fine with that bc I still have some time to get things done. But if i have one that is down at 10am and up at noon. There is no break for me. I think to my self I might still be able to get these things done but theres always the chance that this child doesn't take to 2 yr naps as I have to wake him even at 3. He is in a great mood though at 3 so that works. I fear that waking him when he hasn't had a full nap will only hurt him and the others in the long run bc then no one has had a full nap. I have to think of my other families and there needs too. I thought about just continueing what I already have but I do a "daily note" home to parents so they know what there child did during the day...how many pottys, what they ate, what nap time they had. I hate to lie. I am just one of those people. I am not a good lier. Bc this parent is one of those lingering parents and he doesn't always come at his pick up time but is early on occashion I run the risk of him finding out that he didn't have the nap he wanted to have. Hence that happend yesterday where he asked about nap and I told him the truth that his nap was from 10-1pm. He was mad bc he only wants him to have a 2 hr nap and I told him that i go in there often to ck on him and try waking him but if he doens't want to get up then I let him sleep. He is a little guy...preime at birth so I figured 3 hrs wouldn't be to long to sleep. At that time I did wake him and he was fine getting up. I just don't know how to talk to these parents as they won't be happy with what ever I say...

[Christian Mother]

They are just heading the provider off from her response that if he slept from ten to twelve that he would miss lunch. This way he gets a special pre nap meal and a special post nap meal.

This means she gets to one to one him twice for meals when she would just be having him in the group during lunch. Then she gets to one to one him for 2.5 hours during nap.

So just with their "words" they get to turn 3 plus hour a day into one to one private care when they are paying for group care. Just a few words to the provider and BAM you get 3 hours a day... 15 hours a week of "my child" for free.

Yes, that is exsactly how I feel...I don't know exsactly what is going on...but I know this parent get home from work at 11:30am and yet his child is still here til 4:30pm. Well, sometime he comes to pick up earlier then that but they don't leave til 4pm bc he wants to wait til he has been given notice to go and pick up his son or wife. They pay me each week at the beginning of the week. They have been known to pay on fri's instead of on mon.'s with my approval and they normally pay for that week plus the next. Pay isn't a issue...yet. But, I already make allowences such as the parents not having to pay if there not in my care. It's just sooo fusterating!

[nannyde]

Yes, that is exsactly how I feel...I don't know exsactly what is going on...but I know this parent get home from work at 11:30am and yet his child is still here til 4:30pm. Well, sometime he comes to pick up earlier then that but they don't leave til 4pm bc he wants to wait til he has been given notice to go and pick up his son or wife. They pay me each week at the beginning of the week. They have been known to pay on fri's instead of on mon.'s with my approval and they normally pay for that week plus the next. Pay isn't a issue...yet. But, I already make allowences such as the parents not having to pay if there not in my care. It's just sooo fusterating!

They are going to have a heck of a time finding someone someone who has a group of kids to nap him at different times and give him special special meals. They obviously don't realize that and when they DO get it you most likely won't be making any money from them.

This is one reason why it's SO important to deal with nap time before they start care. You need to make it clear that you don't keep kids who don't need a full AFTERNOON nap or that your fees are based on all kids napping a full afternoon nap and any parent request to alter that will result in a ten dollar per hour "no nap" fee for any portion of nap they want the kid up.

You said: I just don't know how to talk to these parents as they won't be happy with what ever I say...

You know how to talk to them. What you don't know is how to convince them to do it your way and have them stay. You will NOT come up with words to convince them to do it your way and stay. They want a YES and you want to give them a NO and have them stay.

So give them a YES with a NO. YES I can do that and here is the fee for that service. And a NO to it being free. You don't have to be apologetic about it. Just tell them that you must have the extra 10 dollars per hour to cover their child being up while the other kids nap. The fee they are being charged now is a fee that includes ALL kids napping at the same time in the AFTERNOON. You are willing to provide additional services but there is a fee.

Let them know they can let you know what yours of nap they want him up and just pay you in advance EVERY day.

Don't be afraid to offer the fee. When they realize they can get nap inclusive day care for the rate they are paying now and keep their fees the same they will usually agree to just have you nap him with the other kids.

The only thing they can do is pull him out. If you think there is really a chance of that and you don't want to risk loosing the money then you HAVE to accept that you have to do as you are told. There isn't any gray in this.

If you agree to get him up early to please them they WILL start coming unnanounced and check on him. That check will get earlier and earlier until they stalk you into compliance.

You won't be able to convince them what is GOOD for him or GOOD for the group. They are asking you to do this because it is what is GOOD for them. They want an easy and early bed time and you minding them is going to markedly increase their chance of getting that. That's what is good.

[Christian Mother]

Yes, since I've had him he had been sleeping with mom and dad in there room since they don't have enough bedroom. The 2 older kids each have there own and he sleeps w/mom and dad. But recently they have placed him with his older sister. So I am sure with the recent changes that is part of the problem they have. But even before that they would mention him getting up at night and not wanting to play or so over tired he just cry and cry. He's pretty much driving them nutz and with the lack of rest the parents are just not happy. I want to help but I am not sure that even a 2 hr nap here will make much diff. I don't quite know what time they put him to bed at night although I think I really need to have a sit down talk with them. Prob. mostly with the father. In person. It would be so easy just to call mom and tell her that the 10 to noon is a no go and also that dad will need to stop lingering here bc little guy just wants to go or he gets confused and wants me. It a problem all around.