Universal Income

[Cat Herder]

I am familiar with Univeral Healthcare and Universal Preschool platforms, but today I heard the term Universal Income touted and it made my skin crawl.

Thoughts?

[Josiegirl]

I'd have to know more about it, pros/cons, do other countries have it and does it work for them, would it make everybody's financial situations more equal, etc., etc? So many unknown variables but I could see how it wouldn't work the way they think it might.

[Cat Herder]

My fear is that of a parent and middle-class worker who was motivated to work hard and save to succeed in life. I pay my taxes to allow for good roads, police, schools and social services.

How do we raise our kids to work hard for their dreams if they can just lay about, play video games and collect? An entire generation of paid voters with no natural intrinsic motivation scares the ____ out of me. What happens when everyone stops paying taxes because they don't earn enough? It just really scares me for the next generation.

[sammie]

I am familiar with Univeral Healthcare and Universal Preschool platforms, but today I heard the term Universal Income touted and it made my skin crawl.

Thoughts?

First thought that popped into my head was "oh hell no!"

[daycarediva]

My fear is that of a parent and middle-class worker who was motivated to work hard and save to succeed in life. I pay my taxes to allow for good roads, police, schools and social services.

How do we raise our kids to work hard for their dreams if they can just lay about, play video games and collect? An entire generation of paid voters with no natural intrinsic motivation scares the ____ out of me. What happens when everyone stops paying taxes because they don't earn enough? It just really scares me for the next generation.

Which is why capitalism works. I didn't want my kids to live in trailer or be teased for being trash like I was. I worked my butt off to improve my socio-economic status.

This isn't the first I have heard of this. I just don't think it will work long term. Our country is bankrupt now. We can't be given more money than we pay in taxes.

Eg. We pay in about 35,000/year. If they give me a univeral income of 20,000 and my husband a universal income of 20,000 that's a loss.

Most families don't pay that much in. So a single mom making 26,000/year gets an 8,000 tax return (real figures, happened to my DCM) so she 'makes' 34,000 and pays NOTHING in, and then gets additional income of 20,000. Now is no longer poverty level so no more free health insurance, WIC, food stamps, section 8 housing. That will end up COSTING her.

[sammie]

I'd have to know more about it, pros/cons, do other countries have it and does it work for them, would it make everybody's financial situations more equal, etc., etc? So many unknown variables but I could see how it wouldn't work the way they think it might.

In my opinion, if one does not like there current financial situation/income, there are many different ways to change that.

We all ready pay enough in taxes. Our country is broke. Able bodied people need to support themselves.

[Sunchimes]

Isn't this something like Andrew Yang was proposing when he was running for president? He had some solid reasons why it would work and would be a good thing, although I can't remember them now. But, it was interesting to hear his reasoning, something out of the box.

[Cat Herder]

I also wonder what the rebound effect would be. People like me will get tired of paying for everyone else and just stop. Can't beat them, join them.

I won't even go far into the whole "idle hands" issue that follows.

[Cat Herder]

Isn't this something like Andrew Yang was proposing when he was running for president?

One of the men running for congress in my state is also using this platform pretty loudly today. That is what got me thinking about it. He is running for Rep. John Lewis's seat. That, in and of itself, will be a hard feat.

[Blackcat31]

I kinda feel like we already universal income.

I definitely don't feel like I am working my butt off for me/my family.

It feels like I am working hard so that so many others can have a good life.

[Faith is a gift too]

This is a hot topic on both sides and there are a lot of Talking Heads that want us to listen to them, decide and repeat; always so helpful telling us what we should think. I think anybody looking at this needs to do a little bit of research and think about the outcomes on both sides of the issue.

From what I understand the idea is to give people a "supplement" to their income not a way to make a living income.

I believe that if we took just a fraction of the money that we put towards weapons and endless war we could pay each American $1,000 a month just for being a citizen. For some it could make a difference in saving for retirement, for others it could mean getting out of poverty.

It does sound like this could help put an end to economic disparity, homelessness, etc. These are things that we end up paying for indirectly through taxes anyway.
I look at what we are doing now to address these issues as reactive. I see this as more of a proactive approach and look at it a universal tax break.

Some of the arguments on this topic make me think about the vineyard workers, IYGWIM.

[Blackcat31]

This is a hot topic on both sides and there are a lot of Talking Heads that want us to listen to them, decide and repeat; always so helpful telling us what we should think. I think anybody looking at this needs to do a little bit of research and think about the outcomes on both sides of the issue.

From what I understand the idea is to give people a "supplement" to their income not a way to make a living income.

I believe that if we took just a fraction of the money that we put towards weapons and endless war we could pay each American $1,000 a month just for being a citizen. For some it could make a difference in saving for retirement, for others it could mean getting out of poverty.

It does sound like this could help put an end to economic disparity, homelessness, etc. These are things that we end up paying for indirectly through taxes anyway.
I look at what we are doing now to address these issues as reactive. I see this as more of a proactive approach and look at it a universal tax break.

Some of the arguments on this topic make me think about the vineyard workers, IYGWIM.

When people are given something for nothing, they become accustomed to that concept and lose motivation to work.

Not to mention the costs of implementing something like that would be in the trillions (I think I read something like 3.9 trillion) so while the idea is great in theory, I think in reality it would be similar to many of the social programs we already have.

Head Start is one example. Looks and sounds great in theory but in reality... yeah, not so much.

[Faith is a gift too]

Which is why capitalism works. I didn't want my kids to live in trailer or be teased for being trash like I was. I worked my butt off to improve my socio-economic status.

This isn't the first I have heard of this. I just don't think it will work long term. Our country is bankrupt now. We can't be given more money than we pay in taxes.

Eg. We pay in about 35,000/year. If they give me a univeral income of 20,000 and my husband a universal income of 20,000 that's a loss.

Most families don't pay that much in. So a single mom making 26,000/year gets an 8,000 tax return (real figures, happened to my DCM) so she 'makes' 34,000 and pays NOTHING in, and then gets additional income of 20,000. Now is no longer poverty level so no more free health insurance, WIC, food stamps, section 8 housing. That will end up COSTING her.

I can see your argument here, but on the flip side I think we all hope that our children don't have to work their butts off and we all hope that we can retire someday.

I don't imagine that having Universal income will make them lazy, we instill a work ethic in them, I don't think that this will take it away.

I imagine a lot of us work 50 hour work weeks, I don't want that for my children.

For the tax implications I would say I could have less kids in the house, set my hours to shorter days,
make more donations, and definitely contribute more to retirement.

[Blackcat31]

I can see your argument here, but on the flip side I think we all hope that our children don't have to work their butts off and we all hope that we can retire someday.

I don't imagine that having Universal income will make them lazy, we instill a work ethic in them, I don't think that this will take it away.

It already has. There are more people in this country that don't work than there are that do. (NOT referring to those that aren't old enough, are too old and those physically and/or mentallyunable). So WHO is instilling this work ethic into society?

I imagine a lot of us work 50 hour work weeks, I don't want that for my children.

My children already have to work long hours. They have to pay for their college educations as well as pay taxes so that the millions of people now that don't choose to work can continue living comfortably.

For the tax implications I would say I could have less kids in the house, set my hours to shorter days,
make more donations, and definitely contribute more to retirement.

You can do that now. I choose to have less children in my care than I could and choose to have shorter hours than I used to. I do this by giving up certain ammenities. I don't have a brand new car, a 2500 sq ft house or take trips multiple times per year. I choose to earn the amount of income I need to live the life I choose to live.

Everyone has choices. So again, while universal income might be a good idea in theory, it isn't feasible in real life.

[Faith is a gift too]

In my opinion, if one does not like there current financial situation/income, there are many different ways to change that.

We all ready pay enough in taxes. Our country is broke. Able bodied people need to support themselves.

True, but trying to change your situation is a lot easier for some than others:

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/does-your-zip-code-determine-your-destiny-

This study makes me think about the earthquake in Haiti a few years back, my child asked me, "why don't those people just leave?" "honey, sometimes it's not that easy"

Most of our social programs right now tell people how they can use the money: food stamps, Wic. Universal income would give people the freedom to use it to better their situation any way they see fit. Maybe saving up for a downpayment on a home, so they can move out of the situation that they are currently living in or retiring 10 years early.