POLL - Should We Start To Open Our Economy Again?

[Ariana]

It’s understandable but with that logic we would have never have won our independence from England nor won WWII. This is a fight we must win at all costs.

Let those that want to get back to work or open their businesses to do so. They are the frontline in our fight for our economy and way of life. Those that want to stay home should be allowed to do so with no loss of employment or furlough. A blanketed loss of our liberties and freedoms is not the answer. The enemy is taking over our streets and businesses. The longer we let it infiltrate our society the harder it will be to extricate it and remove the scars from it,

[Blackcat31]

I voted now...let each state decide.

Personally, I am a bit tired of having to live under rules that protect only a small portion of our country.

I don't live in New York and my life and everything here where I live might as well be a completely different country so it's ridiculous to think that what happens there will happen here.

I agree with a majority of what Michael and Ariana said.

The media has blown this out of proportion on many levels and I think people should be allowed to make decisions HERE that impact the people living HERE.

How far will we allow the government to go before it becomes over reaching?

[Valerie928]

I voted now...let each state decide.

Personally, I am a bit tired of having to live under rules that protect only a small portion of our country.

I don't live in New York and my life and everything here where I live might as well be a completely different country so it's ridiculous to think that what happens there will happen here.

I agree with a majority of what Michael and Ariana said.

The media has blown this out of proportion on many levels and I think people should be allowed to make decisions HERE that impact the people living HERE.

How far will we allow the government to go before it becomes over reaching?

I live in Upstate NY, nowhere near NY city. My little town only had 2 covid cases about 1 month ago. Nearby towns have very few cases. But because we are in NY we are forced in this lockdown for another whole month. It's ridiculous. No reason why people around here can't get back to life.

[e.j.]

We are at War
I know of no war where its victors stayed at home in fear of their lives. The greatest of victories were won when warriors overcame their fear to fight on the battlefield. In our current war with a faceless enemy, there is also a psychological war being waged that will ultimately determine victory or failure. How does a nation engage its people to become fighters in the battle?

We hear daily from the press and doctors why we should fear this enemy. We are effectively hunkered down at home, fearing the unexpected and unable to manage the normal life we should expect.

Every battle, that America has waged and won, involved the deaths of Americans. It was the price we paid to live free and dwell in the world we wanted to live in. We of course want to minimize those numbers and mitigate the transmission of the virus, but it was never the reason why we didn’t engage the enemy. We can not wait forever in our homes for someone to deliver us.

This administration may know that the people of this country are not ready to wage war on this battlefield. It can’t declare war without the support of its people as fighters. It seems we are already losing the psychological war to the virus. FDR once said, there is nothing to fear but fear itself. Fear is now our greatest enemy and can create a far greater cost than this disease.

I can't ever remember a time when soldiers went to war without having weapons to protect themselves and to fight against the enemy. I also can't remember a war when soldiers were asked to fight an invisible enemy and were victorious.

I hear arguments for and against resuming our normal lives as soon as possible. I get both sides of the argument. I know the economy is suffering and I agree we can't hunker down and hide forever but to resume life as normal while the numbers of sick and dying are still on the rise, seems foolhardy to me. Having people go about their normal activities without knowing (and in some cases, not caring) if they are carriers of the virus is tantamount to "friendly fire" in my book. Until we have proper testing for all, medications to mitigate the effects of this disease for those who get it, proper social distancing and hygiene practices by everyone and eventually a vaccine, I won't feel comfortable getting back to normal life.

Going further using the war time analogy...We have health care workers (medics on the front line) in my state who are literally begging people to stay home and socially isolate because they still don't have enough PPE to protect themselves, their patients and their families and they don't have enough ventilators to deal with the number of sick and dying "casualties of war" who need them. (Last week, doctors in this state were given guidelines to help them determine who gets a ventilator and who doesn't because there weren't enough for everyone who needed them.) Their fellow medics are getting sick and dying as well. It's scary to think that if enough of them get sick and die, those of us who get sick during a second wave of this virus will have fewer medical professionals to help us in our time of need. (China is already showing signs of a second round and we're being told there probably will be one in the fall/winter and it could be worse than this first one.)

When I hear people saying it's worth the risk of lives to save the economy, I think, "OK. I have 2 adult kids and a husband who are all at high risk for serious complications should they get this virus. Which one is expendable?" (Who, in your own family, are you willing to lose for the sake of the economy? Your mother? Your grandfather? Your spouse? Your daughter? Your new born?) The thought of any one of my family members dying, not to mention dying alone because visitors are not allowed into the hospital to be with them to comfort them, upsets me like nothing else does - especially if it can be prevented.
In war, I wouldn't dream of placing any one of them at the front of the enemy line, with no weapons to defend themselves, consoling myself with the thought that they died so our so our economy could get back to where it should be. "Sorry; we knew there would have to be sacrifices and, well...looks like you're it! I hate this for you but...I've got to get home to bed so I'll be going now; I have to get to work in the morning."

I'm not sure what the right answer is and it isn't like I really have a choice in what happens next anyway. I have to live with the results of whatever decisions are made for our country and for the state I live in. I just hope the leaders who are in charge in all levels of government think long and hard about the decisions they're making and do the right thing for the well being of their citizens - not for their ego, their campaign strategies or their political affiliations. I hope they listen to the medical experts like Dr. Fauci and act accordingly.

[e.j.]

I live in Upstate NY, nowhere near NY city. My little town only had 2 covid cases about 1 month ago. Nearby towns have very few cases. But because we are in NY we are forced in this lockdown for another whole month. It's ridiculous. No reason why people around here can't get back to life.

I'm honestly not being argumentative or snide so please don't take it that way - is it possible your area (and other areas of the country who have had so few covid cases) have had so few because of the lockdowns that have been put into place?

We have 14 cases in our town right now. Compared to 4600 plus cases in the state capitol which is about 50 miles from us. I feel strongly that we have such a low count because of the social distancing advisory that was put into place last month. Our state has entered into the surge period that was predicted for this week and next. I'm happy to continue to stay in place for now if it means not contracting this virus and helping to slow the spread.

[Valerie928]

I'm honestly not being argumentative or snide so please don't take it that way - is it possible your area (and other areas of the country who have had so few covid cases) have had so few because of the lockdowns that have been put into place?

We have 14 cases in our town right now. Compared to 4600 plus cases in the state capitol which is about 50 miles from us. I feel strongly that we have such a low count because of the social distancing advisory that was put into place last month. Our state has entered into the surge period that was predicted for this week and next. I'm happy to continue to stay in place for now if it means not contracting this virus and helping to slow the spread.

The town I live in and the surrounding towns are naturally socially distant. Think farm country, endless fields of corn, ect. We are by nature distant, spread out.

[Vesta]

I can't ever remember a time when soldiers went to war without having weapons to protect themselves and to fight against the enemy. I also can't remember a war when soldiers were asked to fight an invisible enemy and were victorious.

I hear arguments for and against resuming our normal lives as soon as possible. I get both sides of the argument. I know the economy is suffering and I agree we can't hunker down and hide forever but to resume life as normal while the numbers of sick and dying are still on the rise, seems foolhardy to me. Having people go about their normal activities without knowing (and in some cases, not caring) if they are carriers of the virus is tantamount to "friendly fire" in my book. Until we have proper testing for all, medications to mitigate the effects of this disease for those who get it, proper social distancing and hygiene practices by everyone and eventually a vaccine, I won't feel comfortable getting back to normal life.

Going further using the war time analogy...We have health care workers (medics on the front line) in my state who are literally begging people to stay home and socially isolate because they still don't have enough PPE to protect themselves, their patients and their families and they don't have enough ventilators to deal with the number of sick and dying "casualties of war" who need them. (Last week, doctors in this state were given guidelines to help them determine who gets a ventilator and who doesn't because there weren't enough for everyone who needed them.) Their fellow medics are getting sick and dying as well. It's scary to think that if enough of them get sick and die, those of us who get sick during a second wave of this virus will have fewer medical professionals to help us in our time of need. (China is already showing signs of a second round and we're being told there probably will be one in the fall/winter and it could be worse than this first one.)

When I hear people saying it's worth the risk of lives to save the economy, I think, "OK. I have 2 adult kids and a husband who are all at high risk for serious complications should they get this virus. Which one is expendable?" (Who, in your own family, are you willing to lose for the sake of the economy? Your mother? Your grandfather? Your spouse? Your daughter? Your new born?) The thought of any one of my family members dying, not to mention dying alone because visitors are not allowed into the hospital to be with them to comfort them, upsets me like nothing else does - especially if it can be prevented.
In war, I wouldn't dream of placing any one of them at the front of the enemy line, with no weapons to defend themselves, consoling myself with the thought that they died so our so our economy could get back to where it should be. "Sorry; we knew there would have to be sacrifices and, well...looks like you're it! I hate this for you but...I've got to get home to bed so I'll be going now; I have to get to work in the morning."

I'm not sure what the right answer is and it isn't like I really have a choice in what happens next anyway. I have to live with the results of whatever decisions are made for our country and for the state I live in. I just hope the leaders who are in charge in all levels of government think long and hard about the decisions they're making and do the right thing for the well being of their citizens - not for their ego, their campaign strategies or their political affiliations. I hope they listen to the medical experts like Dr. Fauci and act accordingly.

My sentiments almost to a T.

[Bluemoon5]

I'm just very glad I'm not the one in charge of making decisions. Because really, how do you weigh the costs? And there will be costs, heavy ones, no matter what happens.
It is very real where I am. I'm in a more secluded part of my state. There are "only" about 600 cases in my county; 75 in my town. In the next town over they found 17 bodies stuffed in a 4 person morgue in a nursing home where 68 total people have died. I don't see things safely opening up anytime soon. Here, staying home is not about fear. It's about safety. Lifting restrictions would not just be sending people out into the battlefield unprotected without weapons to fight the enemy, they could also be unknowingly fighting on the side of the enemy.

That's this area though. Places where things aren't so bad might be able to ease things up. In general, I think the decision needs to be up to the states. My concern is probably the opposite of everyone else: I'm more worried about the government trying to force things back open before it's practical.

I just don't see a solution that doesn't involve people dying. Keeping restrictions can lead to economic downfall and skyrocketing suicide rates. Easing restrictions too soon/fast can lead to overwhelmed health care systems having to make decisions about who gets treated.

[Michael]

I can't ever remember a time when soldiers went to war without having weapons to protect themselves and to fight against the enemy. I also can't remember a war when soldiers were asked to fight an invisible enemy and were victorious.

We have weapons, they are called masks, sanitization, our immune systems, testing, drugs that are showing promise, a healthcare system and a national effort to control this virus. If you are currently wearing a mask and going to the store to buy groceries, you are on the frontline combating the contraction of COVID-19. You can use the same protection to go anywhere else as you normally would with some exceptions. Staying in your home to keep yourself alive is extreme and can only last for so long. Would you consider never driving your car if you knew no one would die in car accidents ever again? I think the answer would be-no.

A destroyed economy means a destroyed America. That picture would produce civil unrest and unravel the fabric of society. That would create a type of devastation that no war has ever produced in American history.

Even with our best economy with a great GDP, we were still at our max debt of $23 trillion to GDP before this virus struck. We just added another two trillion and could well reach $6 trillion total by the end of the year. What makes this situation even worse is our GDP is now down 30% this quarter and getting worse. How do we pay down our debt? Answer—at this rate we never will.

If this current evaporation of our economy continues beyond six months, we will become a country controlled by a centralized government—meaning the government will own or control the private sector. Capitalism as we know it will cease to exist.

The federal reserve can not buy our economy. No one is saying that we should go back to doing things as before but we must adapt our economy to the challenges this virus creates.

Bottom line-big cities will economically collapse under quarantine. States and rural communities that are have natural distancing will survive or thrive.

The world was not prepared for this virus. The biggest error early on was with the government task force stating that face masks don’t work. We were left without protection for several weeks while the virus was able to spread. Face masks do work, sanitizing works and we should be going about our business now with these tools/weapons.

Now with testing, it appears that we have a somewhat better understanding of the mortality rate which may be much lower then previously feared. Many more seem to have already had this virus and were Asymptomatic and can now be counted. Finding and notifying those that are immune is an important metric to know. We must protect those that are vulnerable to this disease but that should not include stopping life for everyone else.

[Valerie928]

A little off topic...but wth China? Did anyone see their numbers today?

[nannyde]

We have weapons, they are called masks, sanitization, our immune systems, testing, drugs that are showing promise, a healthcare system and a national effort to control this virus. If you are currently wearing a mask and going to the store to buy groceries, you are on the frontline combating the contraction of COVID-19. You can use the same protection to go anywhere else as you normally would with some exceptions. Staying in your home to keep yourself alive is extreme and can only last for so long. Would you consider never driving your car if you knew no one would die in car accidents ever again? I think the answer would be-no.

A destroyed economy means a destroyed America. That picture would produce civil unrest and unraveling the fabric of society. That would create a type of devastation that no war has ever produced in America in history.

Even with our best economy with a great GDP, we were still at our max debt of $23 trillion to GDP before this virus struck. We just added another two trillion and could well reach $6 trillion total by the end of the year. What makes this situation even worse is our GDP is now down 30% this quarter and getting worse. How do we pay down our debt? Answer-at this rate we never will.

If this current evaporation of our economy continues beyond six months, we will become a country controlled by a centralized government—meaning the government will own or control the private sector. Capitalism as we know it will cease to exist.

The federal reserve can not buy our economy. No one is saying that we should go back to doing things as before but we must adapt our economy to the challenges this virus creates.

Bottom line-big cities will economically collapse under quarantine. States and rural communities that are have natural distancing will survive or thrive.

The world was not prepared for this virus. The biggest error early on was with the government task force stating that face masks don’t work. We were left without protect for several weeks while the virus was able to spread. Face masks do work, sanitizing works and we should be going about our business now with these tools/weapons.

Now with testing, it appears that we have a somewhat better understanding of the mortality rate which may be much lower then previously feared. Many more seem to have already had this virus and were Asymptomatic and can now be counted. Finding and notifying those that are immune is an important metric to know. We must protect those that are vulnerable to this disease but that should not include stopping life for everyone else.

Ugh truth for sure.
One thing I do disagree with is that we have a healthcare system. We also don't have an emergency response system or a postmortem system to accommodate the ones afflicted by this virus.

If we are to return to "normal" in the sense that most go back to work, stores, sports venues, conventions, gambling etc., then we also need to understand that the medical systems need to go back to normal too.

The paramedics, doctors, nurses, morticians, aides, home health workers etc. need to go back to normal. This not only means working normal hours and carrying normal case loads, but also that if they don't have the equipment to protect themselves they do not work at all. period.

Are we ready to say to the public... we can't receive you at this hospital because the staff is already serving it's normal load... we can't receive you at this hospital because the staff doesn't have ppe.... we can't receive you at this hospital because the staff is serving our non covid clients for surgeries, outpatient procedures, testing and elective services wherein the hospital makes the profits it needs to stay afloat.... we can't receive you at this hospital because our staff must have time off as they did before.

We can't receive your loved ones body after death because the funeral homes and mortuaries are at normal capacity. We don't want full capacity because the staff has to go back to normal average work hours. We can't respond to your 911 calls because our workers have vacation time they need to use up before years end.

You need any of the above services and we can't normally oblige... it's up to YOU to source services in another county or even another state where (as one poster above stated) the doctors and nurses are having their hours cut and the hospitals are near empty. You have to source a service to manage your loved ones body after death.

If we are going back to normal then the healthcare system MUST be able to go back to normal too. This means denying services without hesitation if taking the ill and dead means it interrupts their normal case loads and normal work hours. This means denying services if the health care workers do not have more than adequate PPE.

From where I sit, I can't see not having the whole spectrum of healthcare mirror what is done in society. We will need these healthcare workers and services when this is over with. Let's make sure the expectations for them returns to normal when society does.

I don't know... it's a ridiculous idea but I can't see past how we can do one without the other. We have applauded health care workers as heroes but we need to allow them back into the role of just workers so they aren't expected to do more... go above and beyond.

[Josiegirl]

My sentiments almost to a T.

Me too.
E.J. you said it so much better than I ever could.
While I am positive we're all pretty sick of living this way, I am NOT willing to sacrifice my dds, my ds, anyone I love to the front lines. And I'm not sure I agree with the whole war analogy either, except that your comment about people don't fight wars without weapons hit the mark.

IF/WHEN the economy starts to reopen, it HAS got to be different than it ever was before. Those 'weapons' have got to be in place and used efficiently for it to work or it'll get worse than ever.

I agree that the economy is going to he!!, people need to get back to work, but I don't think we can put a time table on it.

So, please discuss how the world can get back to working safely without creating even more chaos? I'd like to see ideas.

I do see many businesses that could be open, with stricter guidelines, and work safely enough. Hair salons, Libraries, car dealerships, vets, dentists, retail stores such as JCPenny's, etc. They're not deemed essential but could help ease our way back to normal. Why can't they open some places using the social distancing/limiting to certain numbers/wearing masks and gloves, etc. guidelines they have in place now?

Sorry I seem to have much to say on this topic. It's our #1 topic of conversation in our home everyday.

But I love seeing people's opinions and ideas.

ETA: And if we're talking about living in fear now versus when everything 'gets back to normal'. I don't know about everyone else but this fear will never leave me now. I remember being in 1st grade and we were still having air-raid drills at school due to WW11, and this was 1960.

[Josiegirl]

"We must protect those that are vulnerable to this disease but that should not include stopping life for everyone else."

This I agree with 100%. I am confused about the immunity issue though. The question has come up about 'can you get this more than once?'

Nannyde, that's a heavy load to think about; scary and overwhelming. How thin is the country willing to stretch the system?

When will we catch up to where we need to be in the production of all the needed protection/equipment to treat and protect people? How will the workers keep up and keep going on? Their resources are limited too.

[Ariana]

Great discussions for sure and although I agree with Michael there is validity on both sides.

We are apparently “flattening the curve” here in Canada so we may resume normal life sooner than expected....we will see. Now that people are wearing masks everywhere finally we may have a fighting chance at beating it. I also hope Canada becomes less dependent on other countries for production. Maybe this will be a wake up call that we depend on China too much.

All you have to do is look to countries that required face masks to see that this simple logical precaution could have saved thousands of people. Why wasn’t North America more prepared? Why is the province of Alberta the most prepared area in North America and maybe the world? They had so much PPE stockpiled (because they started buying it in December when they first heard of the virus) they are now shipping it to other provinces. Lots of lessons to learn.

[Gemma]

I think its time to open certain things. Salons can close waiting areas and do appointment only. And most places can limit capacity. If the capacity was 100, change it to 25. Do all online tickets so people dont congregate and once they are all sold out for the day you will know to try again another day. Still do social distancing. Wear a mask.


Another good poll would be: Whose actually going to get this vaccine as soon as it drops?....because its being fast tracked, im skeptical on how safe it will be.

I wish they would reopen the garden centers even under tight restrictions, so people could plant flowers and recover a bit of mental health in the process.
I don't see what the difference is since we can shop in other stores.

I will not get the vaccine!