License or not?

[sweetcinna]

You know Mac i try to let all the hits ( I.E "you must have something to hide") comments roll off my back. There are some people in this world that need that "Atta Boy" to let them know that they are doing "what they are suppose to be doing", However I'm not one of them. I know I'm doing right, my parents see it in their childrens development of their physical and mental being. And quite honestly, I'm happy that others have the passion that I do to be able to do this job and the knowledge to do it the right way. FYI, my first 5 years in this business i was in a center and i left there because of what went on there. So don't let those comments bug you.....you just keep on what you are doing!!

[mac60]

Thank you Sweetcinna, and you are so very right, you couldn't of said it better. I need to learn to ignore those types of statements. I guess when I have been full for 10 years, and 95% of my clients come from referrals, I am doing something right.

[tymaboy]

The only reason I got registered was for my 1st family (Mother of my best friends 1st Grandchild) I knew she would qualify for child assistance & just wanted to make it easier for everone. Ended up she didnt want to work or follow the rules I had set (which was much shorter &easier) at that time. If I knew that she would have been in care for less then a yr I would not have bothered, it would have saved me from the hassles of another family I had in care. I agree that it just gives a false sense of security to the parents.

[GretasLittleFriends]

I agree wholeheartedly that the system doesn't always work. If I wanted to care for more than 1 family legally, I was required to be licensed. I love children. One of my favorite things in life is when you see their little light bulb turn on when they learn something new. I also wanted to be able to stay home with my own children. In order to have us afford to do this, daycare was the right option. We could not make it on only one family. It only made sense for me to be licensed.

[sweetcinna]

Some of my reasons for not being licensed...

A. I have 2 children who are vegetarians and one that has Celiacs. And mom brings their lunch. I could not do this if i were on the Food program. This mother was turned away from 3 different licensed centers, she was told well your children are special needs and we don't take special needs children.

B. I only will take a small group of children,(5 or less)cause i don't want anymore than that. I only take 6wks to 5 years, Most of my children spend the first 5 years of their life with me. I rarely have one leave. As a matter of fact, i have had only 1 leave in the past 2 years, and let me tell ya there were no tears shed on that one! (long story)

Those are just a few reasons.........I have parents in and out of my home all day long, so to say us unlicensed providers "have something to hide" is just and unfair jab in the back and completely untrue!

Also i have read somewhere on this board that you must need a permit to claim your income? This is an untrue statement also.........you do not need a permit or a tax # to claim your income....only your ssn#

[Unregistered]

I'm in VA and you do NOT need a license or permit to care for children. I have been doing childcare in my home for 16yrs . It goes by a point system of 16 or UP to 5 children. which ever comes first. being certified OR regristered is a choice but not required. you should get your facts straight before giving false information. the DSS has all the information . you should read up

EXCUSE ME! I am in Fairfax County, VA. Look it up yourself sweetie. I don't know where you are in VA but where I am it is REQUIRED!!!
I am NOT giving out false information.
The point system you speak of is for a VA State License and the up to 5 children is for a permit! It most certainly is not a choice where I live in VA.

[Unregistered]

Mac60, I don't think we will ever agree on anything.

Being licensed does not give parents a false sense of security - it gives them a very real sense of security. If the regulating agency misses things, and the licensed child care really isn't up to par, or is doing something illegal, that is a fault with the agency. It doesn't mean that licensing isn't necessary to ensure that children are being properly cared for. Laws and regulations are in place for the protection of children.

I would wonder why you refuse to be licensed? What could your reason possibly be? I can't think of a single reason not to be as professional as possible, and recognized as such by the state, unless, like I said, you have something to hide. That is my opinion, and the opinion of many parents, and if it offends you, I have a right to it regardless.

I'm with you.

[mac60]

I copied this from the Virginia licensing website.

Age Range Ratio For Family Child Care
0 - 15 months (1:4)
16 - 23 months (1:5)
2 - 4 years (1:8)
5 - 9 years (1:16)
10 years and older these children shall not count in determining any ratio
Mixed age group a point system shall be applied to determine the need for an assistant

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Family day home care is the most common form of child care in this country, especially for younger children. Parents may choose family child care for its intimate, home-like setting, flexible hours, consistency of care-giver, and small group size.
The Code of Virginia mandates the licensure of family day homes that provide care for six to twelve children (exclusive of the provider's own children and any children who reside in the home). The care may be offered in the home of the provider or in the home of any of the children in care.
During the (less than 24 hour) absence of a parent or guardian, the licensed family day home provider assumes responsibility for the supervision, protection, and well-being of a child under 13 years of age.

Licensing standards, which are proposed by the State Board of Social Services and enforced by the Division of Licensing Programs, ensure that the activities, services, and facilities of the family day home are conducive to the welfare of the children in care.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------____________________________________________

As written, it appears to be true that 5 or under no licensce is needed.

[Unregistered]

As written, it appears to be true that 5 or under no licensce is needed.

CORRECT! What I said was, for 5 or less you need a PERMIT in the county I live in. FAIRFAX COUNTY, VA. Good grief! What is the debate here?! Why would I say I needed a license OR OR OR OR a Permit if I didn't????

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ofc/applypermit3.htm

Legal Requirement
To be a family child care provider, you are legally required by law to have a Fairfax County child care permit or a Virginia state family day care home license.

Providing care without a Fairfax County permit or a Virginia license can result in a $500 fine and a misdemeanor charge. If you are aware of illegal care in your community, please call 703-324-8100.

There are two ways to operate a family child care business:

•A Fairfax County Family Child Care Permit is for providers who care for five or fewer children
•A state license is for providers who care for six or more children. Call State Licensing at 703-934-1505 or visit their Web site.
You can have either a county permit or a state license, but not both at the same time.

[missaimee]

A. You are wrong. Participation in the food program is voluntary - not all children in care have to participate, all children have to be OFFERED participation. There is an area on the enrollment form for a parent to decline to have their child participate in the food program. You simply can't claim the ones who don't.
I have "special diet" children as well. There is a special diet form, and you can be reimbursed for food a parent provides until the child turns 2, because technically you are offering the foods required, after age 2, no reimbursement, the child no longer participates. This is a loophole that allows you to be paid for meals you don't even provide or pay for!

B. Just because you are licensed, DOES NOT mean your daycare has to participate in the food program. It is optional.

C. If that mother was really turned away from 3 licensed centers because her children have special diet requirements, and/or are special needs or disabled in any way, she can and should sue each center for violating the rights of her children, and they should be reported to the appropriate regulating authority. You cannot discriminate, whether you run a group center, a family daycare in your home - licensed, certified, permit, unregulated. When you operate any sort of childcare service, you CAN NOT discriminate, for any reason, period.

I understand your reasons for not be licensed, even though you are misinformed as far as the food program goes. If you aren't required to be, fine. But when giving advice to people who are new to daycare, and open to being licensed, why would you ever tell them not to get licensed? YOU are screwed if a child gets hurt or dies in your care, or accuses you of something. Any parent can make a complaint about you at any time, and you have no written track record to counter their claim, because no one has been checking on you.

And maybe you really are following all of the rules, and stay within the required ratios, and don't have too many infants at one time, and your home is equipped with all of the necessary safety equipment. Maybe - but with no one checking up on you, you can't prove it.

I find it odd that some unlicensed providers say things about not wanting the "state" in their "business" - why not, if you have nothing to hide? Two unannounced visits a year from the licensor, two from the food program rep, and that is really so inconvenient for you? If you really are doing all of the things you say you are doing, it should be no problem for someone to pop in and check once in a while. You shouldn't mind at all, because you are following the rules, so how could it possibly bother you to have someone prove that you are?

That is my opinion.

A. I have 2 children who are vegetarians and one that has Celiacs. And mom brings their lunch. I could not do this if i were on the Food program. This mother was turned away from 3 different licensed centers, she was told well your children are special needs and we don't take special needs children.

B. I only will take a small group of children,(5 or less)cause i don't want anymore than that. I only take 6wks to 5 years, Most of my children spend the first 5 years of their life with me. I rarely have one leave. As a matter of fact, i have had only 1 leave in the past 2 years, and let me tell ya there were no tears shed on that one! (long story)

Those are just a few reasons.........I have parents in and out of my home all day long, so to say us unlicensed providers "have something to hide" is just and unfair jab in the back and completely untrue!

Also i have read somewhere on this board that you must need a permit to claim your income? This is an untrue statement also.........you do not need a permit or a tax # to claim your income....only your ssn#

[missaimee]

That Mom can say what she likes, but it isn't just "a piece of paper".

If it really were so simple as being "just a piece of paper", well then, why don't you get one?!?!

Getting licensed is not that expensive. While you may be operate legally without being licensed, you don't come off to parents as nearly as professional as someone who is.

There are requirements of oneself and one's home in order to be licensed. Education requirements, yearly continuing ed, safety requirements for the home, background checks for household members.

I never said you couldn't run a successful daycare business without being licensed. I didn't say that you aren't following the rules - but you can't prove you are. I, however, CAN prove it. And I'm protected if some tragedy occurs. You aren't. That's the difference.

I know I would only take my car to a mechanic who went to school and graduated, was running a legitimate business, and had some form of insurance and someone checking periodically (OSHA, IRS, etc)to make sure everything is up to snuff. I would not, however, take my car to some guy who just started tinkering around with cars, ran his business out of his garage with no permit, and never bothered to get an education.

If I wouldn't bring my CAR to someone who just claims they know what they're doing, why would I entrust the care of my CHILD to someone who didn't bother to fulfill the requirements recommended by the state in order to ENSURE the safety of children?

Every child protection law on the books was put there because somebody hurt, abused, killed or neglected a child.

And in my town, a few years ago, an UNLICENSED provider killed a baby. She put a blanket over the pack-n-play, and the child managed to get a hold of it and strangle herself to death. When the police arrived, that woman had 15! children in her care - max in my state is 8, IF you are licensed. Unlicensed, 2 or less, unless they are related to you. Once you have 3, you have to be certified. She had also been drinking, and her home was full of safety violations. IF she'd been required to be licensed, someone would have been checking on her, and more than likely, that little girl would be alive today.

While I agree that there are many quality programs that aren't licensed, I feel it should be required for the safety of all children.

I have several parents in my home 2 or more times per day dropping off and picking up their children. It is THEIR children I am caring for.

Honestly, I think those who use the excuse--What are you hiding, what could your reason possibly be to not get licensed---I think you are all jealous of those of us who live in states where we don't have to be licensed. I know if I was forced to be licensed, I would be DONE, I simply don't want any part of the licensing nightmares.

Why would I go thru the expense of becomining licensed and everything that goes with it, when I can have a home business and do it legally without a license.

We can agree to disagree on this one.

STATEMENT FROM A PARENT I WAS INTERVIEWING WHEN DAD ASKED IF I WAS LICENSED....MOM PIPED UP AND BASICALLY SAID IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT IS ONLY A PIECE OF PAPER. WE ARE DROPPING OFF AND PICKING UP EACH DAY, WE WILL SEE AND KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. SO, NOT EVERYONE THINKS THAT LITTLE PIECE OF PAPER MAKES SOMEONE QUALIFIED TO BE A PROVIDER.

[sweetcinna]

A. You are wrong. Participation in the food program is voluntary - not all children in care have to participate, all children have to be OFFERED participation. There is an area on the enrollment form for a parent to decline to have their child participate in the food program. You simply can't claim the ones who don't.
I have "special diet" children as well. There is a special diet form, and you can be reimbursed for food a parent provides until the child turns 2, because technically you are offering the foods required, after age 2, no reimbursement, the child no longer participates. This is a loophole that allows you to be paid for meals you don't even provide or pay for!

B. Just because you are licensed, DOES NOT mean your daycare has to participate in the food program. It is optional.

C. If that mother was really turned away from 3 licensed centers because her children have special diet requirements, and/or are special needs or disabled in any way, she can and should sue each center for violating the rights of her children, and they should be reported to the appropriate regulating authority. You cannot discriminate, whether you run a group center, a family daycare in your home - licensed, certified, permit, unregulated. When you operate any sort of childcare service, you CAN NOT discriminate, for any reason, period.

I understand your reasons for not be licensed, even though you are misinformed as far as the food program goes. If you aren't required to be, fine. But when giving advice to people who are new to daycare, and open to being licensed, why would you ever tell them not to get licensed? YOU are screwed if a child gets hurt or dies in your care, or accuses you of something. Any parent can make a complaint about you at any time, and you have no written track record to counter their claim, because no one has been checking on you.

And maybe you really are following all of the rules, and stay within the required ratios, and don't have too many infants at one time, and your home is equipped with all of the necessary safety equipment. Maybe - but with no one checking up on you, you can't prove it.

I find it odd that some unlicensed providers say things about not wanting the "state" in their "business" - why not, if you have nothing to hide? Two unannounced visits a year from the licensor, two from the food program rep, and that is really so inconvenient for you? If you really are doing all of the things you say you are doing, it should be no problem for someone to pop in and check once in a while. You shouldn't mind at all, because you are following the rules, so how could it possibly bother you to have someone prove that you are?

That is my opinion.

Miss Aimee let me just say, I respect your opinion and that is your opinion. That is your right.
However i am I am fully aware how the food program works and i choose not to particpate. Also my right as a provider.
As i look back on the post i don't believe i have ever given advice on being unlicensed only what i have encountered in my experience of being an unlicensed childcare provider. I have had the state in my home along with CPS, They were in my home cause a parent turned me in for under false allegations (upon leaving this parent did not want to pay my 2 weeks fee upon 2 week notice)kinda like what you just went through. CPS and the State could have shut me down. They did not, and as a matter of fact i got big praises from the state and CPS. They did ask why i wasn't licensed and my answer........i just choose not to be. Don't get me wrong....I am reg. with the local referral agency, but you don't have to be licensed to be reg. Its not just the State that will regulate, so will CPS, DHS, whatever it is called in your state.
As far as a child being hurt in my home, my insurance covers any child hurt in my home and no you don't have to be licensed to have that coverage.

In my opinion, it is the personal preference of the parent and the provider. I think that my full house and 2 year waiting list proves all i need to prove!

[sweetcinna]

As far as Horror Storys...............

Baby Locked Inside Day Care Center Alone
AP
posted: 21 DAYS 23 HOURS AGO
comments: 1737
filed under: National News

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JOHNSTON, R.I. (Aug. 15) - A 9-month-old baby was left alone at a locked Rhode Island day care center for nearly an hour when workers shut the place down for the night, apparently forgetting the child was there.
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The baby's mother, Julia Castillo, says she came to pick up her son Monday at the My Special Place Early Learning Center in Johnston, only to find the center locked and no one around. A neighbor heard her yelling and banging on the door and helped her get inside, where she found her baby boy crying in a crib.
The day care owner, Jessica Faiola, says the child's mother did not sign the baby in when she dropped him off. She calls it a "crazy mistake" and doesn't want to point fingers.
Kevin Savage, of the state Department of Children, Youth and Families, says the center has been put on probation.

And this is a licensed center............so whats your point!