Need Help From Providers Of SA....

[AnythingsPossible]

So as previously posted SA children are not my favorite. However I have 2 right now and will have 3 this summer. I need some advice.

Right now, they get off the bus, come in loud and rowdy, goof off, get everyone riled up, eat a snack, then basically free play till time to go which involves playing spider man, attempting to wrestle, freddy or chuckie.

Do you have organized activities for them once they get to daycare? For me, once 3:30-4:00 rolls around, I'm pretty much done with it(that sounds worse then I mean it to). I wish they could just play and have fun, but it gets so out of control. The noise level is insane as well.

Here's what I am contemplating...
When they get home, have a snack, read them a book, then let them pick an art's and craft type thing to do. Play dough, drawing, puzzles, something along those lines that they would have to sit at the table and do. I know they have been sitting all day at school, but I'm past the point of tolerating the crazies.

I know when spring hits it will get better as I can send them outside when they get here, but for now it isn't an option. I don't want to be mean to them by making them sit down, but am at a loss as to other options.

So, what does a typical afternoon look like for you with your SA children? I would love any ideas that you have for group type activities or how you control the chaos. These are two boys ages 6 and 8.....

[jessrlee]

Yeah, after school gets pretty busy around here too. I agree that sitting probably isn't "the thing" and by 4 everyone is pretty tired and done for the day. I ban all character play, and agressive play to the big boys pretty much know that it "ain't gonna fly". Can you gate them into the kitchen (so they are away from the littles) and let them play with matchbox cars? Or play board games, or uno, or bop a balloon around?

[momatheart]

I would start a strict rule of homework or study after snack for min of 30 and longer if needed. That way they can have that done before pick up. As a parent I would like that.

I would set them down and have a meeting ASAP! I would also lay down the rule that there is no super hero play done in your home or yard or wrestling.
They are to come into your home with respect and inside voices period

[countrymom]

let them bring their nintendo games, it works wonders. I let them watch tv. I hate sa, they are rowdy no matter what you do.

[missnikki]

Well for starters, you need to give them a place to whirl around and yodel. So find a room they can have to themselves. They will want to play to the extreme compared to what you are used to during the day. Set them up with choices and materials to make their own play. A few favorites around here are:
-making forts/ tents with sheets and chairs, clothespins, etc
-HotWheels tracks that they can build up and shoot cars around on
-remote control things
-indoor Nerf basketball
-computer/video games
-marble run tracks (look at www.mindware.com)
-magnetic dart board
-microscope and slides for samples
-realllly strong magnets (keep away from tv's and computers)
-ipods if they own them
-indoor bowling set


Just try to offer a semi wild activity that they can play to unwind and be boys, but along with a basic set of ground rules. If they blow it, they sit and read or sit and do homework or help with dishes, etc...

Good luck with that, believe me I know what you are feeling. Just remember they WANT you to have rules and patience.

[nannyde]

I would start a strict rule of homework or study after snack for min of 30 and longer if needed. That way they can have that done before pick up. As a parent I would like that.

I would set them down and have a meeting ASAP! I would also lay down the rule that there is no super hero play done in your home or yard or wrestling.
They are to come into your home with respect and inside voices period

I wouldn't get into the business of homework. That can lead to a lot of kid and parent conflict.

You may get some kids that will independently do their work but many will require assistance either academically or behaviorally. Parents can quickly become dependent on the work being done in your home and believe that the job of homework assistance and supervision is included in their price.

If you decide to just offer a quiet table and chairs place you will quickly find that the kids just won't do it. Then you are back to the behavior seen in the OP.

IMHO, school aged children need a LOT of outdoor time and exercise. In my State we are REQUIRED to be outside with them if they are outside. They aren't allowed to just go outside and play unless there is an adult with them. Having older kids outside with younger kids is a recipe for injury. Offering a staff assistant just for the school agers is expensive.

What's happening all across our Country is that pretty much everywhere these kids go the adults want them to SIT and play or have quiet play. Nobody wants to supervise school aged kids outside or in a big enough area for them to run and play. Schools are cutting recess and gym programs. Providers aren't allowed to have them outside without a high cost. Parents don't want to send them outside because the neighborhood isn't safe or the kids don't get along when they are outside.

A lot of parents don't want kids over to their house because they don't like having other peoples kids in their house playing the way the OP has described. They manage their own kids by video, tv, and computer play being the primary source of entertainment.

It's a bad deal for this age group. They need to be able to play and play hard but it just isn't happening. In my generation we were kicked outside ALL day long whenever the weather permitted. We walked MILES to school back and forth every day. Nowadays most kids get carted to school even if they are only a few blocks away. We had CHORES every day that were physical chores.

I don't take this age group because I can't give them what they need. I watch my own school district who have the largest child care in our State (ages five thru twelve) and see that even though they HAVE a large gym and a BIG four acre playground with a walking trail, they have the kids go on computer shortly after arriving in the morning and shortly after arriving after school. The adults do NOT want to supervise the kids in the gym because of the HIGH amount of supervision it takes to keep them safe and not fighting. They don't want to take them outside in the fenced in HUGE playground because they don't want to deal with the high amount of supervision it takes to keep them safe and not fighting.

The school has the PERFECT physical setting to have a full exercise and highly physical activity setting and the kids spend nearly every minute in their care on computer. The staff is on computer too. They could offer a helacious physical fitness program for afterschool (they have the equipment and the indoor and outdoor space) but they aren't interested. The truth is that they can't do it because they can't find adults willing to do it.

NO offense to the OP at all.... I get it... I really do.... but think of how YOU feel with what you want for these kids (sit, quiet activities, etc.) and know that everywhere they go... school... home.. day care... EVERYWHERE really wants the same thing.

My theory is that the kids as a group act so badly that when giving them opportunities to have a physical play or exercise that the adults have to work so hard to keep them safe and not fighting that there isn't enough money in the system to pay for that hard of work.

[MN Mom]

So as previously posted SA children are not my favorite. However I have 2 right now and will have 3 this summer. I need some advice.

Right now, they get off the bus, come in loud and rowdy, goof off, get everyone riled up, eat a snack, then basically free play till time to go which involves playing spider man, attempting to wrestle, freddy or chuckie.

Do you have organized activities for them once they get to daycare? For me, once 3:30-4:00 rolls around, I'm pretty much done with it(that sounds worse then I mean it to). I wish they could just play and have fun, but it gets so out of control. The noise level is insane as well.

Here's what I am contemplating...
When they get home, have a snack, read them a book, then let them pick an art's and craft type thing to do. Play dough, drawing, puzzles, something along those lines that they would have to sit at the table and do. I know they have been sitting all day at school, but I'm past the point of tolerating the crazies.

I know when spring hits it will get better as I can send them outside when they get here, but for now it isn't an option. I don't want to be mean to them by making them sit down, but am at a loss as to other options.

So, what does a typical afternoon look like for you with your SA children? I would love any ideas that you have for group type activities or how you control the chaos. These are two boys ages 6 and 8.....

Wow! Those sound exactly the the two SA boys I had until Oct/Nov. I completely understand how you feel. The 2 SA boys (same ages) used to act and play the exact same way. I dreaded 3:30 and was a very unhappy camper. After dealing with their baby brother all day (whine, cry, spoiled) that type of behavior was the LAST thing I wanted to deal with.

I am not licensed, so have no clue what the rules are for my state BUT I would send them outside to play with my kids. Any time they came in (which was usually about 5-10 after I sent them out) I would say GO PLAY and point to the door. Though winter ****ed because I wouldn't make the go out unless it was 20+ degrees standing temp. In MN in Jan/Feb and out in the country that doesn't happen much =p

I will never take SA's again because of the horrible experience with my old family (which I did not once...but twice ). The family asked for a third try because the little "didn't like his new daycare" (the little is aprox 15 months now). Nope...not gonna happen. I didn't mesh well with the little due to being spoiled, and the SA's were the straw that broke the camels back!

[Lilbutterflie]

I agree with NannyDe, they are acting this way b/c they have energy, LOTS of it, and they need an outlet after being in the classroom all day.

Is there anything you can do with them indoors to get them to release some of that physical energy? Dancing to music, lead them with aerobics, jumping jacks, etc... there is a thread on here somewhere about indoor physical activities. SA's have bottled up so much of their energy in the classroom, they really need lots of energy release when they get home!

[jessrlee]

I wouldn't get into the business of homework. That can lead to a lot of kid and parent conflict.

You may get some kids that will independently do their work but many will require assistance either academically or behaviorally. Parents can quickly become dependent on the work being done in your home and believe that the job of homework assistance and supervision is included in their price.

If you decide to just offer a quiet table and chairs place you will quickly find that the kids just won't do it. Then you are back to the behavior seen in the OP.

IMHO, school aged children need a LOT of outdoor time and exercise. In my State we are REQUIRED to be outside with them if they are outside. They aren't allowed to just go outside and play unless there is an adult with them. Having older kids outside with younger kids is a recipe for injury. Offering a staff assistant just for the school agers is expensive.

What's happening all across our Country is that pretty much everywhere these kids go the adults want them to SIT and play or have quiet play. Nobody wants to supervise school aged kids outside or in a big enough area for them to run and play. Schools are cutting recess and gym programs. Providers aren't allowed to have them outside without a high cost. Parents don't want to send them outside because the neighborhood isn't safe or the kids don't get along when they are outside.

A lot of parents don't want kids over to their house because they don't like having other peoples kids in their house playing the way the OP has described. They manage their own kids by video, tv, and computer play being the primary source of entertainment.

It's a bad deal for this age group. They need to be able to play and play hard but it just isn't happening. In my generation we were kicked outside ALL day long whenever the weather permitted. We walked MILES to school back and forth every day. Nowadays most kids get carted to school even if they are only a few blocks away. We had CHORES every day that were physical chores.

I don't take this age group because I can't give them what they need. I watch my own school district who have the largest child care in our State (ages five thru twelve) and see that even though they HAVE a large gym and a BIG four acre playground with a walking trail, they have the kids go on computer shortly after arriving in the morning and shortly after arriving after school. The adults do NOT want to supervise the kids in the gym because of the HIGH amount of supervision it takes to keep them safe and not fighting. They don't want to take them outside in the fenced in HUGE playground because they don't want to deal with the high amount of supervision it takes to keep them safe and not fighting.

The school has the PERFECT physical setting to have a full exercise and highly physical activity setting and the kids spend nearly every minute in their care on computer. The staff is on computer too. They could offer a helacious physical fitness program for afterschool (they have the equipment and the indoor and outdoor space) but they aren't interested. The truth is that they can't do it because they can't find adults willing to do it.

NO offense to the OP at all.... I get it... I really do.... but think of how YOU feel with what you want for these kids (sit, quiet activities, etc.) and know that everywhere they go... school... home.. day care... EVERYWHERE really wants the same thing.

My theory is that the kids as a group act so badly that when giving them opportunities to have a physical play or exercise that the adults have to work so hard to keep them safe and not fighting that there isn't enough money in the system to pay for that hard of work.

I couldn't agree more! I guess this is why in America we have to have a "Play Movement"!! I have a Dcg that attends an afterschool reading group. I had no idea that the actual function of this group is to do everything that parents are too lazy to do! The teachers elect the kids that need it, and then from 3-4:15 they do their homework, have a snack, and then play outside on the playground or in the gym. Really! I find it insane that they use education funds for this!

I agree that having active school aged children in the same setting as littles and pre k is hard. I very much enjoy my SAers so I take the steps to make it work. I also agree that these kiddos need age appropriate activities, and active play. Hopefully the OP can find a system that works for her.

[AnythingsPossible]

[QUOTE=nannyde;81707]
NO offense to the OP at all.... I get it... I really do.... but think of how YOU feel with what you want for these kids (sit, quiet activities, etc.) and know that everywhere they go... school... home.. day care... EVERYWHERE really wants the same thing. /QUOTE]


No offense at all. I agree that sitting and doing table work isnt the best thing for them to do. I know that they have been sitting all day and have energy, my issue is in finding a way for them to use that energy without being completely insane!
I will not be watching SA after this year as I agree with another thing you said in that I can't give them what they need after school. The sad thing is that I'm not sure there is anywhere around here that can. There are no after school programs for children in our town. I have been talking to my husband about this problem and am trying to figure out where to start in contacting the schools and our local recreation department to start something up for these kids. I think it is crazy that we don't have anything to offer the 5 to 13 crowd. They are completely lost.
We are allowed to let children over the age of 3 outside as long as we can see them and hear them, so in the winter the hearing part is out because you can't leave the door open, and honestly my outdoor area has nothing to offer in the winter time. A flaw in my program I need to address.

Wow! Those sound exactly the the two SA boys I had until Oct/Nov. I completely understand how you feel. The 2 SA boys (same ages) used to act and play the exact same way. I dreaded 3:30 and was a very unhappy camper. After dealing with their baby brother all day (whine, cry, spoiled) that type of behavior was the LAST thing I wanted to deal with.

I am not licensed, so have no clue what the rules are for my state BUT I would send them outside to play with my kids. Any time they came in (which was usually about 5-10 after I sent them out) I would say GO PLAY and point to the door. Though winter ****ed because I wouldn't make the go out unless it was 20+ degrees standing temp. In MN in Jan/Feb and out in the country that doesn't happen much =p

I will never take SA's again because of the horrible experience with my old family (which I did not once...but twice ). The family asked for a third try because the little "didn't like his new daycare" (the little is aprox 15 months now). Nope...not gonna happen. I didn't mesh well with the little due to being spoiled, and the SA's were the straw that broke the camels back!

I am on my 3rd run with the oldest boy. They sent him to a larger center where he was around kids his own age last summer and he hated it. So they asked if I could please take him back and I did. I can't imagine why he would rather come here then go to a place where they have activities and such but he did. I guess it's a comfort level thing as I have watched him since he was itty bitty.
The other family I watch the younger kids, so brother comes after school. I don't know how she will handle my new policy next year, but we will see.
I also live in an area where outside play in the winter is very limited, so I know that is part of the acting up. Come on Spring!

[AnythingsPossible]

I couldn't agree more! I guess this is why in America we have to have a "Play Movement"!! I have a Dcg that attends an afterschool reading group. I had no idea that the actual function of this group is to do everything that parents are too lazy to do! The teachers elect the kids that need it, and then from 3-4:15 they do their homework, have a snack, and then play outside on the playground or in the gym. Really! I find it insane that they use education funds for this!

I agree that having active school aged children in the same setting as littles and pre k is hard. I very much enjoy my SAers so I take the steps to make it work. I also agree that these kiddos need age appropriate activities, and active play. Hopefully the OP can find a system that works for her.

So what do you do with your SA in the afternoon to make it work?

We also have a program for reading and math after school. The kids haven't had enough of it through the day I guess. I think the money would be better spent giving the kids and active safe environment after school.

[nannyde]

I can't imagine why he would rather come here then go to a place where they have activities and such but he did.

I have to wonder whether or not they really DID activities though. I had a bad experience with my sons program:

Here's the review I wrote: http://local.yahoo.com/info-16541858...are-des-moines

School year program: Very little outdoor time despite children beeing cooped up in the classroom daily. Children allowed to sit on computers after school. Staff also allowed to be on computers. With childhood obesity on the rise, recess limited, and Physical Education being cut, DSM public schools has an awesome opportunity to provide an exercise program for little to no additional costs. Instead children are spending their two hours after school sitting as they do during the day. Some outdoor play but very limited and set at the "end" of the day when a number of the children have already left.

Did allow time for homework but do not offer assistance for home work. Snacks good.

Summer program: Way too much indoor activities and screen time for school aged kids. Kids and staff on computers. Staff on cell phones texting during supervision. Field trips advertised but were infrequent and outdoor field trips very short despite time frames given. Equipment for indoor play VERY limited. Children required to sit at tables with small tubs of "toys" and then rotated to next table to play with small bin of toys. Games and sets had many broken and missing pieces. Very little staff involvement for outdoor play, field games, sports. NOT good if you want your child to have a lot of activities and exercise. Remove the hand held video games and computers and have the kids PLAY outdoors. Train staff to be involved in the children's games and set up adult generated and participated activities.

Metro Kids is very profitable for the Des Moines Public Schools. The monies generated from this program are used to fund the Early Childhood Programs offered by DMPS. The School Board needs to be clear in their annual report the profit from the program and NOT include it in the profit for all of the DMPS child care programs. It's misleading to combine the profits into the whole child care programs. Parents of Metro Kids students need to understand that the monies generated for this program are not FULLY being put back into the program for the SCHOOL AGED kids.

The staffing for the program allows for a 1 adult to 15 students. That adult can be a high school student as long as he/she is being supervised by an adult over the age of 18. They require very little training costs and a moderate salary. The whole program is very profitable. Parents need to demand that the monies for these programs be used for their child's program and not to fund early childhood programs.

[AfterSchoolMom]

Mine come in, have snack immediately, and do their homework. I actually do offer homework supervision/completion as part of my services, though I made sure to include in my policies that parents should check homework and assignment books EVERY night, that I would not go through a child's backpack, and that I would trust them to do every assignment.

Snack and homework usually take about 45 minutes to an hour. After that, if it's too cold or raining, I set them up with music in the living room and they have a "dance party", play indoor hide and seek, or we have a small air hockey table, an indoor "over the door" style basketball goal with a nerf basketball, and a balancing board game where they stand on a balance board and try to get a marble to move through a maze. They get at least a half hour of physical activity, then they can read, draw, play with blocks, puzzles, etc. On Fridays they don't have homework, so they either play outside the whole time (if it's nice) or they watch a movie (AFTER indoor exercise). Once per week I try to do a craft with them, but this year my SA's aren't too interested in crafting.

As far as I know, there's no requirement that SA's have to be directly supervised during outside play. All of mine are 3rd graders and older anyway, so I'm not too worried about it. I just check on them every ten minutes or so.

[jessrlee]

So what do you do with your SA in the afternoon to make it work?

I guess my one main blessing is that I have room. I have a large playroom that I can break into two sections, and I have an acre of yard space. I don't allow tv, video games, ds games, etc. I make afternoon snack a high protein/veggie snack so they have less sugar in their systems. Then I simply give them the choice of activities. If it is warm enough we are outside from 3-5:45.

If it is chilly then I gate them into one side of the room and play music, give them board games, especially twister, I also got these spinners at dollar tree so they make up thier own games. They LOVE Hullabaloo! They have a full bin of art materials to use for open ended art. If I know it is an early out, or a testing day I plan to have balloons to bop around, "snowball" fights with rolled up socks, forts and tents.

I am a lot harder on my SA kids. They know the rules, so if they choose to act up they get chores (putting together sippies, portioning out snacks, sweeping, sorting out toys) or they have to sit and work on worksheets. They HATE to have the freedom taken away so they rarely act up.

[missnikki]

Well, I can see why the epidemic exists- hardly anyone sees the positive in the age group. WOW. I work solely with school age, and to me it is much more rewarding than preschool. (Just me, I know)

You know how with preschool age, you cannot be afraid to sit down on the ground, get messy, look silly, etc..? Well translate that into school age. You cannot be afraid to get loud, exert yourself, answer difficult questions honestly, compromise (pick battles), and be willing to take on multi-layered tasks and long- term projects.

I am not trying to say one is better than the other, but I am surprised at the 'haters' here...wow.