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And yes every 3-4 yrs "they try" however because of what I know....they have no recourse. Period.
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What does that entail? What does it look like? Do they come to your door with legal papers? Police?
I believe CCR&R comes first to offer resources, then if no change the criminal system will shut you down, apply fines and jail time. After that you are barred from working with children and most care taking professions (senior care, foster care, residential treatment homes, etc.). :confused:
I am not throwing you under the bus, I truly want to know. Maybe I have been fighting this wrong. Is there another way to fight the strangling over-regulation without risk of legal consequences to my clients or my family? How do you minimize that risk?- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
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I asked my licensor what would happen if you did daycare illegally. She said most likely nothing because they cant do anything but tell you to become licensed. Someone would have to call the police, a parent most likely, but even so you could just tell them its not true, or not answer your door, and there isnt much else they can do. It would have to be something serious like a child was injured/death.Comment
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I want to know what happens if a child gets hurt at your house? Who covers this? Are you ensured? Will the parent sue you for everything? Will you be charged with negligence then?
If you are doing something illegal, even if the consequence according to the law isn't that big of a deal, what about the moral or ethical part of it?
I DO drive the speed limit and have never choose to turn on red or claim a tax donation I've didn't get. Sorry but my conscious doesn't allow me to justify that type of thing as ok or acceptable.
Mostly though I couldn't look to the little faces of the kids i am guiding and teaching and feel good about myself if I knew I was breaking the law every day. I just couldn't be that hypocritical in my everyday life.
Also want to add.... What difference does it make what type of clients you have? Who cares if they are CPS workers or police officers..... their profession obviously doesn't define good character or moral behavior.....One would think similarly about child care providers.
But you are proof that isn't always true.
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WOW! Do providers own children count in that 6? That is crazy to me. I am licensed for 12 and I never go over my ratio. My own children under 14 DO count and children under 18 months (my own baby due soon) take up 2 spaces.I do want to share with you that my State just did away with the group home classification entirely because of how many people were going over ratio illegally.
Now providers only have two choices : Family childcare at 1/6 or a Center.
Many states will follow soon. Their goal is to do away with family childcare entirely because we are too hard to manage and take up resources that they feel would be better spent elsewhere. Your provider is part of the problem for our field right now, not the solution.Comment
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I have reported an illegal provider many times in my area. The state simply knocks on her door, she doesn't answer, and they do nothing. This has been going on for THREE YEARS.
They keep saying, now, that she is working on filing her paperwork...and we aren't supposed to watch children WITHOUT being listed, registered, or licensed...but they turn their head because "she's trying."Comment
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Illegal is illegal.
It doesn't matter if the intention is good.Comment
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There are zoning rules in Utah that are similar. I am in a city that allows 1:8 ratio but 3 houses down the street is a different city that only allows 1:6. So If I lived down the street in their city I would be over ratio for the city zoning law but still within state licensing rules. Its super frustrating.
I wouldn't report a zoning issue. Same as I don't report my neighbor who has backyard chickens even though its against city ordinance. If they lived in our neighboring city they would be allowed them
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For the most part I agree, but there are plenty of laws on the books that are outdated and silly; when laws are written badly plenty of people disobey them until it's finally changed, in fact many times that's why they get changed! My mother was black and my dad is white, when they got married in the 60's it was still illegal in a lot of places. They had to be very, very careful when they visited our family in the South because of people who would have turned them in for ethical and moral reasons and because "illegal is illegal". Yes I know it's not the same thing, but caregivers that are doing everything right but still can't get licensed because of nonsense need to be left alone. that's way more ethical and moral IMO. If you take great care of your kids and help families you can always look them in the eye with prideI want to know what happens if a child gets hurt at your house? Who covers this? Are you ensured? Will the parent sue you for everything? Will you be charged with negligence then?
If you are doing something illegal, even if the consequence according to the law isn't that big of a deal, what about the moral or ethical part of it?
I DO drive the speed limit and have never choose to turn on red or claim a tax donation I've didn't get. Sorry but my conscious doesn't allow me to justify that type of thing as ok or acceptable.
Mostly though I couldn't look to the little faces of the kids i am guiding and teaching and feel good about myself if I knew I was breaking the law every day. I just couldn't be that hypocritical in my everyday life.
Also want to add.... What difference does it make what type of clients you have? Who cares if they are CPS workers or police officers..... their profession obviously doesn't define good character or moral behavior.....One would think similarly about child care providers.
But you are proof that isn't always true.
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I'm sorry but this is a sad outlook.For the most part I agree, but there are plenty of laws on the books that are outdated and silly; when laws are written badly plenty of people disobey them until it's finally changed, in fact many times that's why they get changed! My mother was black and my dad is white, when they got married in the 60's it was still illegal in a lot of places. They had to be very, very careful when they visited our family in the South because of people who would have turned them in for ethical and moral reasons and because "illegal is illegal". Yes I know it's not the same thing, but caregivers that are doing everything right but still can't get licensed because of nonsense need to be left alone. that's way more ethical and moral IMO. If you take great care of your kids and help families you can always look them in the eye with pride
One should never just accept something if its not right.
Knowing the law, intentionally breaking it but doing nothing other than saying it's dumb is even dumber... and even less productive.
If there are a ton of providers that are ILLEGAL and still doing everything right why not join forces and advocate for a change? Doing something is better than doing nothing but still complaining about it. We call those kids whiners.
A great man once said "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"
fwiw~ I am NOT talking about zoning rules...I am referring to licensing rules/laws.Comment
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I'm not in the 'local loop' of dcprovider gossip in my town but my food program lady visited this week. We started talking about the ultra-ridiculous new regs that are going into effect Sept. 1st. She said it's causing a lo of providers to go under the radar and drop their licenses. She said she knows 1 who has 10 toddlers. (And yes, she reported them)To me, that is playing with fire. And children's lives. Dcfs need care and legal caregivers are dropping like flies so what other choice do families have? I'm certainly not saying it's right, not at all. Besides, why should all the rest of us have to jump through all these hoops to stay in business while illegal providers are still getting away with it?? The one biggest thing keeping me from being illegal is the risk of a child getting hurt....it'd be all over for me. My insurance co. would drop me in a heartbeat if I wasn't regulated by the state.
So while I'm upset with all the damN rules and regs. they're shoving down our throats, making it near impossible to keep up this profession, I'll never become illegal to keep doing it. It's just not right and too big of a risk.Comment
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But if they can't get the license because of the zoning rules...I'm sorry but this is a sad outlook.
One should never just accept something if its not right.
Knowing the law, intentionally breaking it but doing nothing other than saying it's dumb is even dumber... and even less productive.
If there are a ton of providers that are ILLEGAL and still doing everything right why not join forces and advocate for a change? Doing something is better than doing nothing but still complaining about it. We call those kids whiners.
A great man once said "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"
fwiw~ I am NOT talking about zoning rules...I am referring to licensing rules/laws.
Meanwhile I missed where anyone said that nothing was being done; I've been reading up on it here and on Facebook, daycare providers have been trying to do something about it for the longest time! It's been an issue in OH for years:
An even greater man once said "By any means necessary." I know that for some folks rules are much more important than people, that's the sad outlook IMO.Comment
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So what are you doing?
It seems that people don't like rules as they represent a kind of restriction, but in fact life can't be organized without rules.
People always need rules and laws to be able to live and deal together. If there are no rules and everyone is free to do whatever they want, most people will probably behave selfishly.
Doctors, engineers, farmers, everyone in the society must behave under rules. Most things we do are governed by rules.
All the rules and laws have the same purpose. They organize the relations between individuals and the society to make it clear what is right and wrong
Most of us are basically honest, and knowing the rules means that we usually try to follow them. It doesn't mean anyone thinks rules are more important than people; it means there's an understanding that although not perfect or one size fits all rules are important to follow BECAUSE people are valuable and just like policies for the group of kids in care vs one individual child rules ARE for the greater good.
Stop making excuses for not following them. You said some rules were nonsense... I think some are and some aren't.
Your opinion might be different than mine and that's my point.... your opinion is no more important or right than mine so collectively society creates a rule. If you don't agree with one in particular, do something other than try to justify why you are breaking it.
Sometimes things take days, months, years or more to change but it's all dependent on how long someone is willing to fight/be active rather than be passive.
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