Illegal But Excellent? Opinions Please :)

[midaycare]

OP for what it's worth, I find your knowledge of their life and business unsettling. Amd your bil is unethical for sharing any info with you.

[Cat Herder]

I do want to share with you that my State just did away with the group home classification entirely because of how many people were going over ratio illegally.

Now providers only have two choices : Family childcare at 1/6 or a Center. Many states will follow soon. Their goal is to do away with family childcare entirely because we are too hard to manage and take up resources that they feel would be better spent elsewhere. Your provider is part of the problem for our field right now, not the solution.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

sounds like a zoning issue. Neighborhoods dont want a lot of traffic that can come with numerous families picking up or dropping off each day. There is nothing to turn them in for if they are in ratio. Kind of sounds like you are asking if someone would turn them in if they went around the zoning and did more kids anyway?

[Unregistered]

Okay so are you talking licensing ratios or zoning ratios?

I bet that makes a difference....

So if zoning says they can only have 6 but they have 7
State says they can have 7,

Then the only trouble they'd be in is from zoning....I am sure state recommends you follow all city ordinances but it sounds to me like there are two different rules at play here.

Basically what you said. Back in 2005 I was looking into it for myself to do with my best friend and I don't think it's changed: licensing ratios are 7-12 kids and two adults for a Type A family home daycare; that part's not hard, but the zoning board is famous for refusing to allow it because more than 6 kids, even just 7, makes you commercial in their eyes. I know rules are rules but that's ridiculous to me. Apparently there's lots of places here that are legal as far as numbers for Type A home daycare, but illegal/unlicensed because the zoning board says no and you can't get your license without the zoning board approval and they never approve anyone

I get why some people think it's wrong, I just wanted opinions.

[Cat Herder]

Can they all get together and protest this? Can their CCR&R not help with this? That is one of the things they do. They are paid to help us, with our own tax dollars.

Write letters to the editor, show up at city council meetings, etc. Write Mayors, Representatives, Senators and Governors daily. They love that. (worked for me once)

Beg child care associations for help. Facebook it. Change.org it. Anything is better than operating illegally and risking everything they have worked for. They deserve better from their community.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I do want to share with you that my State just did away with the group home classification entirely because of how many people were going over ratio illegally.

Now providers only have two choices : Family childcare at 1/6 or a Center. Many states will follow soon. Their goal is to do away with family childcare entirely because we are too hard to manage and take up resources that they feel would be better spent elsewhere. Your provider is part of the problem for our field right now, not the solution.

I don't think that is fair. The problem is the disconnect between what the state allows and what the city zoning commissions allow. People want daycare and they want it to be accessible and affordable. The main entities I see getting int he way of this are the state and the city. If they cannot follow through on regulating the rules they put in place, that is on them. If they make a regulation that the city does not allow, then they should do the work to make it allowable versus putting that cost on the provider. IMO, this sounds like a wonderful provider who want to expand, but cannot due to city zoning laws. I don't think the provider is the problem. I think they and parents are feeling the consequence of over regulation in this area. It sounds like the city does not want home based daycare for more than 6 kids. They want centers in commercial areas. The city is electing to have kids in center based care versus home based care.

[Blackcat31]

Basically what you said. Back in 2005 I was looking into it for myself to do with my best friend and I don't think it's changed: licensing ratios are 7-12 kids and two adults for a Type A family home daycare; that part's not hard, but the zoning board is famous for refusing to allow it because more than 6 kids, even just 7, makes you commercial in their eyes. I know rules are rules but that's ridiculous to me. Apparently there's lots of places here that are legal as far as numbers for Type A home daycare, but illegal/unlicensed because the zoning board says no and you can't get your license without the zoning board approval and they never approve anyone

I get why some people think it's wrong, I just wanted opinions.

Providers can go to city council meetings and seek a variance from zoning. In my community zoning doesn't have to approve a family child care but I know in some cities they do and some are approved for a variance and some are not....it really is dependent on the area (both where the child care provider is located and how lenient the city officials are about it.)

If there is a huge shortage of providers in your area or the daycare meets a specific need then I would use that as a starting point to request and obtain a variance from zoning.

There ARE ways to do this but from my understanding it's a lot of work and requires some patience.

[Unregistered]

OP for what it's worth, I find your knowledge of their life and business unsettling. Amd your bil is unethical for sharing any info with you.

We're friends with them, my daughters have been with them since 2006 and I go to ballroom dance and Zumba with the Mom! And all my BIL said is that they pay their taxes, nothing more; we give them a total every January and they have our Tax ID number for filing every year, believe me there's nothing unethical about it

[Unregistered]

Providers can go to city council meetings and seek a variance from zoning. In my community zoning doesn't have to approve a family child care but I know in some cities they do and some are approved for a variance and some are not....it really is dependent on the area (both where the child care provider is located and how lenient the city officials are about it.)

If there is a huge shortage of providers in your area or the daycare meets a specific need then I would use that as a starting point to request and obtain a variance from zoning.

There ARE ways to do this but from my understanding it's a lot of work and requires some patience.

I get the impression they're still trying, it actually came up in conversation and that's what led me here

[Unregistered]

I don't think that is fair. The problem is the disconnect between what the state allows and what the city zoning commissions allow. People want daycare and they want it to be accessible and affordable. The main entities I see getting int he way of this are the state and the city. If they cannot follow through on regulating the rules they put in place, that is on them. If they make a regulation that the city does not allow, then they should do the work to make it allowable versus putting that cost on the provider. IMO, this sounds like a wonderful provider who want to expand, but cannot due to city zoning laws. I don't think the provider is the problem. I think they and parents are feeling the consequence of over regulation in this area. It sounds like the city does not want home based daycare for more than 6 kids. They want centers in commercial areas. The city is electing to have kids in center based care versus home based care.

I agree. Heck, there wasn't even an increase in traffic for my provider because the new babies came with their older brothers and sisters like mine did, I know her neighbors weren't bothered at all. And they could at least stop saying there's a such thing as a Type A family daycare here because nobody seems able to open one but the state's website makes you think you can, it ****ed when my best friend and I couldn't

[Cat Herder]

I don't think that is fair.

I don't mean it in a confrontational or accusatory tone. Just a factual one. No emotion.

She is giving them the ammunition they need to simply make her go away instead of fighting to change policy.

With her training, reputation, evidence of long term compliance and support from her clients she would be in the best position to elicit change. Newer providers don't stand a chance, but she has a real one if she played her cards right.

Again, I was not intending to tear her down, the opposite is true. I have been fighting this system for years, they would LOVE to catch me in a huge violation to shut me up. Not happening.

[midaycare]

I do want to share with you that my State just did away with the group home classification entirely because of how many people were going over ratio illegally.

Now providers only have two choices : Family childcare at 1/6 or a Center. Many states will follow soon. Their goal is to do away with family childcare entirely because we are too hard to manage and take up resources that they feel would be better spent elsewhere. Your provider is part of the problem for our field right now, not the solution.

Shhhhh...if you don't say it, it won't be true. I'm excited to have a group license happyface I would not want to open a center.

[Unregistered]

I will get thrown under the bus for this....but I AM a underground provider. I was licsened for many many years. I jumped thru all the hoops and played the game. I currently have police people ..custom agents..teachers and now CPS supervisor as clients. Why..because these people know just how flawed the systems are. Just for record..I was heavily involved in trying to change the system for 10+ years...what I learned..without $$$$ or political power...you go no where. The common person needs a person that will care for their kids..teach them...let them learn in a safe environment. Go with your gut. How many people drive the exact speed limit.....Have you ever Made a safe descion to turn on red..... How many people take the whole donation on the tax line...but don't donate.....and then look at our government......yeh...totally trust worthy and honest...make it work for YOU.

[Cat Herder]

I will get thrown under the bus for this....but I AM a underground provider. I was licsened for many many years. I jumped thru all the hoops and played the game. I currently have police people ..custom agents..teachers and now CPS supervisor as clients. Why..because these people know just how flawed the systems are. Just for record..I was heavily involved in trying to change the system for 10+ years...what I learned..without $$$$ or political power...you go no where. The common person needs a person that will care for their kids..teach them...let them learn in a safe environment. Go with your gut. How many people drive the exact speed limit.....Have you ever Made a safe descion to turn on red..... How many people take the whole donation on the tax line...but don't donate.....and then look at our government......yeh...totally trust worthy and honest...make it work for YOU.

But what will happen if you get caught? To your family and theirs? THAT is the risk that I simply can't take.

More than half the providers in my county are currently operating illegally. How do they operate watching the windows every day? I can't imagine that stress level on my health.

[Unregistered]

I don't watch my windows..I educated myself...in the law. Look up CPS..know your rights..look up the 4th and 5th amendments. Knowledge is power.