One Of Those "Patient" Parents

[Mom2Two]

I have a 4 yo who is a bit on the wild side. But since preschool has been out, he's even more wild than normal. I'm having to call him out constantly and he has been escalating to my "doing chores" level of correction. He did chores twice today in about 5.5 hours.

Yesterday, when he dropped food under the table that he didn't want, I asked 6 yo sister if dcb does that at home, and she said that he throws food at home if he dosn't like it. I asked what the parents do, and she said that her dad makes him pick it up and talks to him.

Okay...assuming that sis is telling it like it is...picking up thrown food sounds really appropriate FOR A ONE OR TWO YEAR OLD. The kid is four and smart! I'd take his dinner away after explaining the rule and reminding/warning a few times.

Today he ended up pulling his pants down with another boy in the playhouse, so I kept him inside with me while DH watched the others outside. Grandpa picked up soon after and I (unprofessionally) gave grandpa an earful about how dcb needed more accountability.

So I emailed mom and talked about it a bit and about the behavior, but I don't have an action plan for going forward. Should I try to work with mom about being on the same page with our guidance? His behavior is getting to be too much, and while I know I can manage him here, I also know that I am constantly fighting what happens/doesn't happen at home. Should I try to come closer together with parents or just deal?

While I'm really glad they aren't beating their children, I think they are taking patient too far. Honestly, most of the children who have been behavior problems here have had these "patient" parents.

[Mom2Two]

And also, in mom's reply, it comes across that she is using assertiveness/complaint management techniques (agreeing/empathizing without taking responsibility). It makes sense that she would have had training in that, because she is a hospital nurse. But I don't feel like it's quite appropriate in this situation. She shouldn't just be soothing me. This is her child and it's her problem!

[LysesKids]

And also, in mom's reply, it comes across that she is using assertiveness/complaint management techniques (agreeing/empathizing without taking responsibility). It makes sense that she would have had training in that, because she is a hospital nurse. But I don't feel like it's quite appropriate in this situation. She shouldn't just be soothing me. This is her child and it's her problem!

I had a parent refuse to teach their child (Add/Autism) that it was not ok to pull the privates out and play with it any where they wanted too; it got to a point, I terminated care because parents wouldn't deal with it... I knew he had sensory issues, but there is only so much one can deal with

[Josiegirl]

I am so torn over these kinds of issues. While I believe it helps if everyone has a plan in place and does things mostly the same way, a child IS going to be different in dc than at home. Different kids, different environment, different routine and caregivers, etc. Consistency is difficult to maintain. Then the weekend comes and everything falls apart only to start once again come Monday mornings.
With the example of food throwing I would restate the expected behavior as you sit him down to the table. Tell him if he even throws food 1 time, it must mean he's not hungry and his plate will be taken away, he will leave the table, and read books quietly while he waits for everyone else to finish. He will see that you mean business and hopefully quit his behavior without too many unfinished meals. Consistency, firmness, and following through with actions......
With the example of pulling his pants down, I almost think it's a rite of passage for most kids at one time or another; not that it's okay, especially under our watch where so much can happen. But I think what you did was good by keeping him inside while his friends could have fun outside. Did you keep the other child in also? If that's a behavior that happens again, I'd definitely sit down and have a talk with the parents because it just cannot be allowed to happen at dc. Parents find out, withdraw their child and your business is affected.
If his behavior is all around out of control, I'd come up with a plan immediately, with the parents, and give them a 2 week time period to implement at home and see improvements at dc. If nothing changes, then I'd think about letting him go. It's amazing how much stress 1 child alone, can cause within an environment and he's not the only one there for you to think about. And shadowing is great for a limited amount of time but wow, it gets super exhausting. Is he dangerous with the other kids at all, or just plain naughty and challenging?

These suggestions all sound so good while they roll off my fingers but damn, I wish I could practice what I preach.
I have a little dcg turning 4 yo next month and she's leaving for preschool at the end of the summer. She's been a handful, but especially so eversince her baby sister arrived 9 months ago. What keeps me plugging along is I love her to pieces and sometimes her sweet angelic side shines through. Plus she's got a wonderful family who works with me. That can make all the difference in the world.

[tlemother]

Who are you trying to "correct" the child or the parents? Obviously they have a different parenting style then you do. To me you seem rather rigid in your expectations and seem to be insinuating the child's behavior is because of the parent's "patient" upbringing of their children. Perhaps a little more supervision on your part would have prevented the child from having the time and opportunity to remove his pants in the playhouse. Why did the child feel the need to drop his food on the floor? Do you require the kids to clean their plates or do they feel safe just leaving it uneaten on the plate if they don't like it? I am curious about your "chores" and what actions lead to these chores? If I was mom I wouldn't take responsibility either. Sure I would talk to my child about expectations but I won't punish my children for something that happened on someone else's watch. You were the adult in charge at the time not Mom. You clearly have a different philosophy on raising children than the parents have so perhaps it would be best the child if you term the family.

[Unregistered]

If my 4 year old child threw food at dc and I was told about it, you can bet he would have a consequence at home. This is not a toddler. 4 year olds know better, or should. And if the parents don't see a problem with it, then they are too "patient" though "patient" isn't the word I'd use. Indulgent and permissive perhaps.

As for dropping his pants in the playhouse, I'd probably mention it to the parents and make sure the child knows that it's not appropriate, but I wouldn't be too hard on him the first time because it's a common childhood prank. If it continued, then I'd deal with it firmly.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

You cannot control how mom and dad handle the child at home, so you have two options to control how you respond to this child. If his parents are not helping and you feel his environment at home is making your job much tougher, then I would move on or set a trial period. If there are not improvements during that period, care is terminated. Be specific about what you expect.

As for the second option, you must let dcb know that he will follow YOUR rules at YOUR house, even if they differ from what happens at home. In regards to food, he gets very tiny portions at a time, just like a baby would, until he can show self control and not throw it on the ground. If he does throw it on the ground, he picks it up and dinner is over and nap time begins. I don't force kids to eat, but they must sit nicely and wait for others to finish, so throwing food would not be okay.

Four year olds are old enough to know better, but are still learning self control. Their emotions get the best of them and problems can occur if it is not addressed quickly. I use privileges as the best tool/consequence. He loses freedom and gets the same supervision as the babies. As he learns better self control and shows positive behavior, he slowly gets that freedom back. Hope that makes sense, but it has worked well for my kids so far.

Bottom line, though, is that the parents will do things however they want at home. They can say they will do this and that, but most likely, they won't try too hard until they are about to lose their daycare spot. If he is getting to be too much and you don't want to work with him, move on! Plenty of amazing 4 year olds out there!

[Ariana]

Who are you trying to "correct" the child or the parents? Obviously they have a different parenting style then you do. To me you seem rather rigid in your expectations and seem to be insinuating the child's behavior is because of the parent's "patient" upbringing of their children. Perhaps a little more supervision on your part would have prevented the child from having the time and opportunity to remove his pants in the playhouse. Why did the child feel the need to drop his food on the floor? Do you require the kids to clean their plates or do they feel safe just leaving it uneaten on the plate if they don't like it? I am curious about your "chores" and what actions lead to these chores? If I was mom I wouldn't take responsibility either. Sure I would talk to my child about expectations but I won't punish my children for something that happened on someone else's watch. You were the adult in charge at the time not Mom. You clearly have a different philosophy on raising children than the parents have so perhaps it would be best the child if you term the family.

The parent is working so the responsibility of raising this child goes to the daycare provider. If they chose this daycare provider they need to be team players with getting on the same page as she is on, plain and simple. If they don't like it, they can quit their jobs and become the parents or they can find another daycare provider that accepts ridiculously rude behavior from children.

As providers all we see is negative attention seeking behaviors. Why? Because that is what gets them parental attention at home. They get very little attention at home so then this behavior carries on at daycare. Throwing food under a table gets him a "talking to" from dad, also known in most households as "father son one on one time".

[Josiegirl]

Who are you trying to "correct" the child or the parents? Obviously they have a different parenting style then you do. To me you seem rather rigid in your expectations and seem to be insinuating the child's behavior is because of the parent's "patient" upbringing of their children. Perhaps a little more supervision on your part would have prevented the child from having the time and opportunity to remove his pants in the playhouse. Why did the child feel the need to drop his food on the floor? Do you require the kids to clean their plates or do they feel safe just leaving it uneaten on the plate if they don't like it? I am curious about your "chores" and what actions lead to these chores? If I was mom I wouldn't take responsibility either. Sure I would talk to my child about expectations but I won't punish my children for something that happened on someone else's watch. You were the adult in charge at the time not Mom. You clearly have a different philosophy on raising children than the parents have so perhaps it would be best the child if you term the family.

Do you feel it's rigid to expect proper table manners? Clean their plate? Of course not; there are things all of us couldn't choke down if somebody offered us a million bucks. Well, okay, maybe not.:: But to throw food on the floor at 4 yo, that's not appropriate behavior.
The chore consequence....I doubt she's having him polish silver or wash windows or using him as child labor. But wth is wrong with that as a consequence? I feel inappropriate behavior usually warrants consequential actions of some kind. I usually try to have the consequences tie in with the actions somehow but that's an individual thing. Lots of times kids have to do extra chores for consequences. If she's requiring a consequence over every teeny thing, it might be overkill. But I am sick of kids getting rewarded for every single thing they do, stickers, candy, video games, movies, the stakes get higher and higher so the kids expect more. But consequences, hmmmm, some parents just don't use them and that's why, when we go to a restaurant, the movie theater, into stores, any public area, there are kids acting out to get their way. And as far as not supervising closely enough to prevent a child from dropping their pants?? Seriously? Do you realize how long it takes a child to do that?? That 10 seconds you're helping someone zip a coat, tie their shoes, look at the bug a child wants to show you, etc., etc. I always used to feel so damn guilty over not catching a child before they bit someone, or hit them, or whatever a child can do. But then I got to thinking, unless I am holding that child in my arms, every second of every day, $hit is going to happen.
I do know they will not allow childcare providers to request grant money for playhouses and things like that in our state, where a child cannot be 100% seen, for exactly that reason. With that said, I have a playhouse outside, but I also have a huge maple tree they could hide behind and do it too. Some issues can be due to supervision but some are not. Let's face it, not a one of us is perfect. We all simply try to do the best we can with what we have and what we know. It's so much easier when the parent/provider relationship is such so that we're on the same page and supporting each other.

[flying_babyb]

food throwing, I agree take the plate. Kid wont starve. I tried doing this, made it halfway to the garbage and kid was picking up his food and the dropped food asking "I eat? I sorry" Never did it again

[Pestle]

When you say "doing chores," do you mean he has to shadow you instead of playing with the other kids?

A parent who's allowing the child to throw food is a parent who needs to be the only care provider. As far as I'm concerned, food discarded on the floor means "uh-oh! Food is all done. Bye-bye, food." That's not depriving a child of food; it's removing food when the child deliberately contaminates it.

[Mom2Two]

food throwing, I agree take the plate. Kid wont starve. I tried doing this, made it halfway to the garbage and kid was picking up his food and the dropped food asking "I eat? I sorry" Never did it again

I know...most kids seem to be this way for me: not too hard to give good guidance to. But some kids are just a bit more stubborn/sneaky/wilder than others and harder to teach self-governance to. This little guy tends a bit that way and with the whole Summer ahead of me...I know I need to do something a bit differently or he will be a constant source of annoyance.

[Mom2Two]

So my original question was whether I should try to talk to parents about them being a little more firm at home or if I should just focus on correction here. I woke up this morning feeling like i need to do both.

I will be very firm and strict with him so that he understands that he'll be getting less freedom and fun from his inappropriate behavior. If a little firmness isn't working, then he'll get more, which would be longer periods of time by himself/shadowing me/doing chores.

He's super fun-loving and a bit of a clown along with other naughty stuff, and I think that he's been feeling like the fun of his inappropriate behavior outweighs any light-weight consequence he's been getting at home.

About six months ago he suddenly started biting other children. I explained to parents that if he couldn't stop biting I'd have to term over this, since it poses all kinds of problems (it would be different if he was one yo but not at almost four!!!!). I ended up (with parent approval) having him do quiet activities by himself for the whole 2.5 hours he was here (they have some full-time days and some part-time). That was the last time he bit here, but it honestly took THAT much strictness to get him to take the rule seriously. It was a loooong day for him.

And at some point I will also mention to his parents that they might want to tighten up some of his consequences at home and to remember that if one approach isn't working (at this age) a different, firmer approach might be needed.