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While it is preventable nobody thinks it will happen to them and there in lies the problem. If you don't think something could ever happen to you then you don't take steps to prevent it. Then a perfect storm erupts, disaster strikes and most people respond to it by saying "how could you forget your child? I would never forget my child. Why didn't you put the diaper bag in the front seat/put one of your shoes in the back seat/remember your child?" Even though most don't do those things themselves because like the parent who forgot their child they also think it could never happen to them. It's a vicious cycle that will never end until parents realize that no matter how much you love your child, how responsible you are, etc. you can end up in the same situation.I think we agree on most of this issue. I DO think it is a parents responsibility. I DO think they are to blame for this happening. I guess I also realize that some parents are capable of forgetting given a certain set of circumstances. I also think that a death can be prevented by calculating human error and figuring out a solution to prevent deaths. That is my bottom line.
I don't think car manufacturers will make a sensor because the liability is too high if the sensor fails. Having said that the liability is pretty high if an airbag doesn't deploy during an accident so what is the difference? Car manufacturers are sued every year for wrongful deaths. Just recently Honda CRV was recalled due to a pin coming loose when the airbag was deployed puncturing a man in the chest.
Good discussion at any rate
Daycare providers have forgotten children in daycare vans. Providers who are used to counting children. Then a child falls asleep hunkered down in the seat, doesn't get off at their school stop and the provider doesn't remember this because he/she was scanning traffic to make sure the ones getting off at the stop were safe. Then she pulls up to the daycare and doesn't even think to check because in their mind this day is like every other day and all the children were dropped off. Of course most daycares have systems in place these days to prevent this from happening but it still happens. There is little argument to be had that the provider did it intentionally.
Of course there is some negligence involved but it's not intentional. So I guess I don't know what these parents should be charged with. Negligent homicide? I don't know I guess I think of jail as a place we should put people who are a danger to society not a place we should people were just mad at for a horrible accident. And what makes people more angry than the death of an innocent child? I guess one could argue that a person speeding through a school zone and hitting a child is also an accident but they also chose to speed whereas a parent who leaves a child in a car didn't choose anything it was them not doing something that caused the tradgedy. If a parent forgets to latch the baby gate at the stairs and the child falls and dies do we charge them? There are just so many instances accidents that can happen when it comes to taking care of a child that could then be prosecuted.
No one I know would ever believe i forgot my infant in the car because I'm hyper-vigilant about their safety. I make lists for everything. My children are the center of my world. I'm always counting heads and scanning for safety problems even when I don't need to but I did forget due to the perfect storm of exhaustion due to a newborn, unfamiliar circumstances and overloaded circuits. I was just lucky. Who knows if I would have forgotten if my husband wasn't there to get my daughter out and I had been responsible for all of the children? I don't. I don't know why I didn't remember that one time and can only chalk it up to a perfect storm of events. If something had happened no one witnessing the incident would have thought I should be prosecuted but I imagine most people reading it in the newspaper would.
Anyway, im not trying to argue as much as I'm trying to pick your brain since I know you enjoy the legal side of things and are well versed on them.Comment
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Once again, I completely agree. I think the mentality that it could never happen to me is what keeps the stigma attached and is why no one takes means to prevent it. I mentioned the backseat camera and it would be a small addition to a car that may help prevent the "out of sight, out of mind" situations. Small things can make a big impact.
As for conscious parenting, I agree 100% that when it comes to preventing any type of injury, it is the best means of defense. I think we all need to be more conscious in our lives in general, but parents specifically need to recognize that putting their brains on auto pilot when it comes to their kids is not safe.Comment
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In the beginning I use to call when a parent didn't show up to see if they were coming and would get sent to voicemail and didn't get any response to my texts until it was convenient for them (it was mainly one family) so I stopped. My considerate families always keeps me posted on what's going on with a simple text. I go on with my day and if for some reason I'm gone when they show up it's not my problem. I personally don't want the responsibility on what goes on when I'm not present. I already have too much going on throughout the day.Comment
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I started reading the trial transcripts. I do not think the prosecution will be capable of proving intent, the evidence is all circumstantial at this point. Obviously the responding officers thought he was guilty, as they charged him and the DA thought they could make a case.
The guy was an obvious tool who didn't want marriage or a family, though.
The reason I say parents SHOULD be charged is to make it clear- this type of negligence IS criminal.Parents are aware of these risks. It is up to the parent to put a plan in place to prevent this from happening. The same way the parent is responsible for child proofing, or not leaving the baby in the bathtub.Negligent homicide is a much lower intent crime and is used as a charge when one person causes the death of another through criminal negligence. The charge does not involve premeditation, but focuses on what the defendant should have known and the risks associated with what he did know.
I cannot imagine the pain these parents feel IF it was truly an accident BUT, they ARE guilty based on the law. Their negligence directly caused the death of a child. IF parents start being held responsible, maybe we would see fewer of these cases.Comment
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Also, locally we are seeing people prosecuted for animal cruelty/animal abuse for leaving animals in parked cars (running with the AC on) it's against the law. One woman just received jail time when her dog died outside of a grocery store. The news said that animal owners are being more proactive to prevent breaking the law and interviewed a few people who said that they had changed their habits to obey this law after seeing people charged.
As if a beloved pet (OR CHILD) isn't deterrent enough.Comment
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I do send a text past 40 minutes, but most times I don't have to, the parents let me know.
Where are the transcripts or video of the trial? Can you post a link? Didn't this guy look up how long you have to be in a car before you pass away on his computer?Comment
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Leaving kids in car is criminal
By Kyle Martin
Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 7, 2011
"It's a clear-cut criminal offense to leave children unsupervised in a car, but defining the degree of a caregiver's culpability is usually made on a case-by-base basis.
Georgia law has several definitions for child cruelty. The difference between first- and second-degree cruelty to children is whether the crime was done "maliciously" or the result of "criminal negligence."
When a child dies -- as occurred May 26 with a 4-month-old girl in Atlanta who was left alone for five hours -- homicide charges usually result.
If a child is saved but suffers serious injury, a caregiver faces a charge of cruelty to children, said Capt. Steve Morris, of the Columbia County Sheriff's Office.
What if the children are left alone for 15 minutes in an air-conditioned car?
The children aren't really suffering, but as Capt. Scott Gay, of the Richmond County Sheriff's Office, points out, there's still the chance something could happen. He gives the scenario of a 4-year-old unbuckling and putting the car into gear.
"You will be arrested," he said of people who leave children in the car.
In that instance, the typical charge is deprivation of a minor. Michelle Stevens was arrested on that charge two weeks ago after, deputies say, she left her children, ages 7, 5 and 3, unattended in her Chevrolet Blazer while she shopped at Target.
The vehicle was running and the oldest child was in the driver's seat, according to a Richmond County sheriff's report. Stevens told a deputy she had been in the store for about 15 minutes, the report says.
Solicitor General Charles Evans said an alternative charge in that instance is reckless conduct, but each case is judged on its individual facts, he said.
"Not every case comes with similar facts," Evans said.
There are exceptions. Gay said a parent won't be arrested for running into a gas station to pay for fuel while the children are in the car. Still, car thieves have been known to steal cars with children strapped in the back.
"You can't be too cautious nowadays," Gay said."- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
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I watch live here:
and here you can see a minute to minute breakdown-I think this link is day 14 but to the left you can see where you can click on different days.
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This is the problem in my opinion. Yes most parents are aware of the risk of leaving a child in a car on a hot day but they never think they would do it. They never think they'd forget their child so they see no reason to have a plan in place. In their mind "I would never forget my child" is the plan. Every single message board is filled with comments from these people and the people that actually have a plan in place is the minority.
These same parents use car seats for safety and the law. I know I've read about at least one who had the entire house professionally baby proofed before the baby was even born. They know not to leave a child in the bath tub just like they know not to leave them in a hot car so they don't, except that one time they are running on autopilot and accidentally do.
I know several of the stories include the parent going to pick the child up from daycare and that's when they find out the child has been in the car all day.
It interesting that prosecution has helped with pets being left in cars but I can't stand behind sending a grieving parent to jail for a horrible accident and charging them with reckless homicide or involuntary manslaughter. I don't know what the answer to the problem is except a required device on car seats or in cars.Comment
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I agree.
Normally it's a fatal mistake, and awful mistake, the saddest mistake I could ever comprehend. This is a very good read (also very old but still applicable)
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I feel that if a third party (daycare provider, bus company, aunt/uncle...) would be charged with a crime, then the parents should also be charged. Is it a sad, tragic accident? Yes. (well, maybe not in this particular case, we shall see...) But it is a sad, tragic accident regardless of who the perpetrator is. So if I, as a daycare provider, would be charged, then the parents should be charged for doing exactly the same thing. The same for SIDS deaths, if they are going to investigate the daycare provider, and charge them when safe sleep practices weren't adhered to, then they better investigate and charge the parents, too! A crime shouldn't be dependent on who the caregiver is, it is either a crime or not.Comment
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As a SIDS mom, I can tell you, they do. Parents are investigated and often treated as guilty/suspects until proven innocent. I welcomed it because I needed to know it was not from something I did wrong. I was a young mother. I needed to know more than they did.
I still need to know... It seems I never will for sure. It still causes me nightmares. SIDS is the the literal statement of "We don't know."
I believe that as a provider there is an added responsibility in that I accept payment and represent myself as a trained professional. As such I accept a greater responsibility.
SIDS is VERY different from hot car deaths or positional asphyxia.- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.Comment
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You're absolutely correct. You can also follow every safe sleep recommendation and have none of the risk factors ands baby can still die of SIDS.As a SIDS mom, I can tell you, they do. Parents are investigated and often treated as guilty/suspects until proven innocent. I welcomed it because I needed to know it was not from something I did wrong. I was a young mother. I needed to know more than they did. I still need to know... It seems I never will for sure. It still causes me nightmares. SIDS is the the literal statement of "We don't know."
I believe that as a provider there is an added responsibility in that I accept payment and represent myself as a trained professional. As such I accept a greater responsibility.
SIDS is VERY different from hot car deaths or positional asphyxia.
I went to a SIDS support group once put on by a hospital and the one fact I was told that helped even a little bit was that babies have died of SIDS while in hospitals and in one case someone shared the baby was being held by a doctor at the time. I'm sorry for your loss, I know that pain and fear never goes away.Comment
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