Backbone Help

[Denali]

Me again. Always me...

So good news is I've enrolled 3 new kids. A 2.5 year old (a sibling of a child already in care), an almost 3 year old, and a kindergartener.

This post is about the almost 3 year old.

My backbone is weakening! Help!

So yesterday was DCG's first day. She was supposed to start Monday but DCM had to get a doctors note for shot records as DCG is on a delayed vaccination schedule.

(Backstory: this is the mom that walked in and said she wanted to sign up, without talking about policies or a walk through of my home. Wanted to start the next day. Told her no, I needed at least 24hrs to look over paperwork and shot records and needed her to read over policies before kid could come. She turned everything in last Wednesday. Than told me that she wanted to start Thursday, but would be able to pay me until the 23rd. Told her no, I I must be paid before I provide care and after looking over shot records needed a doctors note for her delayed vaccination schedule. She said ok, brought me money and kid Sunday morning. Remind her of doctors note to which she said she'll have it Monday. I told her great, we could start care on Tuesday if everything looked good.)

Tuesday went great. The little girl is as sweet as candy! And cute as a button! DCG does have trouble understanding that she's not the only kid here and we can't do what she wants when she wants, but she's been with an elderly neighbor for about a year for care. She's very easily redirected and after a few times goes and plays.

Wednesday at drop off (7:45am) and tells me that "this morning DCG said she didn't feel good. I gave her Motrin just in case, if she's not feeling good later let me know." Little girl looked fine, acted fine, DCM seems to be one of those 'worry mom's', wanting to check in once or twice a day to see if her kid is doing good.... so I allow drop off.

DCG acts fine all morning, I ask a few times if she's feeling ok, check her forehead, and keep an eye on her because I'm having a gut feeling...

Lunch she doesn't eat much. We do nap. At 2:30pm everyone is awake, so I turn on lights (signaling that it's time to get up) and she doesn't want to get up, which is not how she was Tuesday. Check her forehead, it's warm enough to check her temp. Under arm it's 99.9, text mom and inform her what's up and that she should start preparing for pick up, check temp again 10 minutes later 100.4

Text mom and she's here within 5 minutes for pick up. Kid is laying on the couch, tell mom that she's showing no symptoms of anything other then fever. DCM tells me that she must have gotten some kind of bug, that it shouldn't last long, that she'll let me know when temp goes away and if it breaks tonight they'll see me in the morning-

I cut her off right there and tell her no, 24 hours fever free without the aid of medicine. So at the soonest we'll be seeing them Friday. Mom says "oh...ok. I'll have to take off work than." They leave.

At 6:20pm she texts me "Since we've been home and I gave her a dose of IBU .. She has been doing great .. I checked her temp again when we got home and it was only 99.5. I'm continuing to keep an eye on her though .. But, I do believe it's just a little bug."

Me: I'm glad she's doing better after she got some medicine! Please let me know how she's doing tomorrow!

DCM: Definitely. So, she can't come tomorrow, correct?

Me: No sadly. My illness policy is 24 hours fever free without the aid of any fever reducing medicine.

DCM: oh, that's okay and understandable. I just wanted to make sure that she had to stay home.

Me: No problem. If you ever have questions about my illness policies just let me know. I hope she continues to feel better. Hopefully the fever doesn't return after the medicine wears off!

DCM: I hope so too


What are your thoughts?

DH wants me to give it some time. See if this will be a problem, and if so, term. He says considering DCG's medical history we can't really blame her for giving her child fever reducer as a "just in case" as we would have done the same in her situation. Which is true. He's basically saying to stick to my policies and see how she does, when she sees we are not bending see if she behaves, and go from there.

She is in her two-week trial. My new policies allow me to term effective immediately with no notice and no refund of any paid monthly fees if any policy is broken. I can also now exclude for 48 hours for fever/vomiting/diarrhea or longer depending on symptoms.

If DCM shows up Friday, and says that she gave DCG medicine than I'm terming on the spot. If DCG get another fever while in care Friday (or seems sick at all) I'm terming on the stop. Is this unreasonable? My DH says it is and I should just turn away at the door and allow back Monday.

He has some good points, back I don't want to be walked on anymore... I've gone through so many families in the last few months... he thinks I'm running them all out...

[Ariana]

Personally I would not have allowed her into care with medication. If she was given meds then she had a fever coming into care and it is not moms fault you accepted her into care, thus creating a grey area with policies.

At this point I think mom is doing well. Most parents try to get away with stuff right in the beginning so this is where you need to be super strict. She listened to your policies and is keeping her home until Friday. At this point I would check in with her this evening and ask if she has been fever free without medication. Ask a very specific question because that is the info you need to know before accepting her into care. My own policy is 24 hours fever free but some providers require the chikd to be out for 48 hrs if the fever comes on at care.

No reason you cannot train this mom on your policies. She now thinks she can drop of dcg medicated though so you will have to clear that up with her. Maybe tell her something like "going forward I will not be accepting dcg if she is medicated and if a fever develops while in care on Friday a termination notice will be given"

[Denali]

Personally I would not have allowed her into care with medication. If she was given meds then she had a fever coming into care and it is not moms fault you accepted her into care, thus creating a grey area with policies.

At this point I think mom is doing well. Most parents try to get away with stuff right in the beginning so this is where you need to be super strict. She listened to your policies and is keeping her home until Friday. At this point I would check in with her this evening and ask if she has been fever free without medication. Ask a very specific question because that is the info you need to know before accepting her into care. My own policy is 24 hours fever free but some providers require the chikd to be out for 48 hrs if the fever comes on at care.

No reason you cannot train this mom on your policies. She now thinks she can drop of dcg medicated though so you will have to clear that up with her. Maybe tell her something like "going forward I will not be accepting dcg if she is medicated and if a fever develops while in care on Friday a termination notice will be given"

So for you, what would you have said when DCM said she had given DCG medicine just in case, and kid seemed fine, and everything? Mom said she had no fever.

I do want to address the medicine before care, and train her on my policies, but how do I do that without sounding like a B*t h ?

[childcaremom]

I like Ariana's advice however I would go straight for a term but that's because I am very clear and very strict on my illness policy with parents.

I'm guessing dcm knew she was sick, doped and dropped. She has exposed you, your household, and the rest of the group you care for to whatever "little bug" dcg has. I don't accept kids into care with any meds for exactly this reason.

I am re-reading Nan's book right now.... "The Parent who lies about Health". Dope and drops. Classic lines that parents use.... well her line is in the book. Seriously. Read the book

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

So for you, what would you have said when DCM said she had given DCG medicine just in case, and kid seemed fine, and everything? Mom said she had no fever.

I do want to address the medicine before care, and train her on my policies, but how do I do that without sounding like a B*t h ?

"Oh, I'm sorry DCM. I can't accept children into care if they've been medicated with a fever reducer. Thank you for understanding. "

No need to explain it further. I just smile and say it in a nice voice. It isn't mean to keep other children and yourself away from possible illness...unless you're saying it mean.

[childcaremom]

"Oh, I'm sorry DCM. I can't accept children into care if they've been medicated with a fever reducer. Thank you for understanding. "

No need to explain it further. I just smile and say it in a nice voice. It isn't mean to keep other children and yourself away from possible illness...unless you're saying it mean.

[Denali]

"Oh, I'm sorry DCM. I can't accept children into care if they've been medicated with a fever reducer. Thank you for understanding. "

Thank you. I have I hard time "in the moment" coming up something to say without sounding rude or mean 😞

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Thank you. I have I hard time "in the moment" coming up something to say without sounding rude or mean ��

Sometimes I still struggle but it has gotten better after 4.5 years (and a looooooooot of coaching help from the ladies on here!). It will get better for you, too. If all else fails and you need to be blunt/rude/whatever then just smile. Also tack on "I'm sure you understand" or "thank you for understanding!" to the end of difficult to swallow concepts for them/defiant behaviors that you're stopping. It confuses them. ::

[Snowmom]

Me again. Always me...

So good news is I've enrolled 3 new kids. A 2.5 year old (a sibling of a child already in care), an almost 3 year old, and a kindergartener.

This post is about the almost 3 year old.

My backbone is weakening! Help!

So yesterday was DCG's first day. She was supposed to start Monday but DCM had to get a doctors note for shot records as DCG is on a delayed vaccination schedule.

(Backstory: this is the mom that walked in and said she wanted to sign up, without talking about policies or a walk through of my home. Wanted to start the next day. Told her no, I needed at least 24hrs to look over paperwork and shot records and needed her to read over policies before kid could come. She turned everything in last Wednesday. Than told me that she wanted to start Thursday, but would be able to pay me until the 23rd. Told her no, I I must be paid before I provide care and after looking over shot records needed a doctors note for her delayed vaccination schedule. She said ok, brought me money and kid Sunday morning. Remind her of doctors note to which she said she'll have it Monday. I told her great, we could start care on Tuesday if everything looked good.)

Tuesday went great. The little girl is as sweet as candy! And cute as a button! DCG does have trouble understanding that she's not the only kid here and we can't do what she wants when she wants, but she's been with an elderly neighbor for about a year for care. She's very easily redirected and after a few times goes and plays.

Wednesday at drop off (7:45am) and tells me that "this morning DCG said she didn't feel good. I gave her Motrin just in case, if she's not feeling good later let me know." Little girl looked fine, acted fine, DCM seems to be one of those 'worry mom's', wanting to check in once or twice a day to see if her kid is doing good.... so I allow drop off.

DCG acts fine all morning, I ask a few times if she's feeling ok, check her forehead, and keep an eye on her because I'm having a gut feeling...

Lunch she doesn't eat much. We do nap. At 2:30pm everyone is awake, so I turn on lights (signaling that it's time to get up) and she doesn't want to get up, which is not how she was Tuesday. Check her forehead, it's warm enough to check her temp. Under arm it's 99.9, text mom and inform her what's up and that she should start preparing for pick up, check temp again 10 minutes later 100.4

Text mom and she's here within 5 minutes for pick up. Kid is laying on the couch, tell mom that she's showing no symptoms of anything other then fever. DCM tells me that she must have gotten some kind of bug, that it shouldn't last long, that she'll let me know when temp goes away and if it breaks tonight they'll see me in the morning-
How does she know it won't last long... because she's going to continuously medicate this child
I cut her off right there and tell her no, 24 hours fever free without the aid of medicine. So at the soonest we'll be seeing them Friday. Mom says "oh...ok. I'll have to take off work than." They leave.

At 6:20pm she texts me "Since we've been home and I gave her a dose of IBU .. She has been doing great .. I checked her temp again when we got home and it was only 99.5. I'm continuing to keep an eye on her though .. But, I do believe it's just a little bug."
Has anyone told this woman that ibuprofen masks fevers and doesn't miraculously cure them? She's already been told "without the aid of medication" and just admittedly just gave another dose!!
Me: I'm glad she's doing better after she got some medicine! Please let me know how she's doing tomorrow!

DCM: Definitely. So, she can't come tomorrow, correct?
She already knew the answer to this...brick wall, head smack, repeat
Me: No sadly. My illness policy is 24 hours fever free without the aid of any fever reducing medicine.

DCM: oh, that's okay and understandable. I just wanted to make sure that she had to stay home.

Me: No problem. If you ever have questions about my illness policies just let me know. I hope she continues to feel better. Hopefully the fever doesn't return after the medicine wears off!

DCM: I hope so too


What are your thoughts?

DH wants me to give it some time. See if this will be a problem, and if so, term. He says considering DCG's medical history we can't really blame her for giving her child fever reducer as a "just in case" as we would have done the same in her situation. Which is true. He's basically saying to stick to my policies and see how she does, when she sees we are not bending see if she behaves, and go from there.

She is in her two-week trial. My new policies allow me to term effective immediately with no notice and no refund of any paid monthly fees if any policy is broken. I can also now exclude for 48 hours for fever/vomiting/diarrhea or longer depending on symptoms.

If DCM shows up Friday, and says that she gave DCG medicine than I'm terming on the spot. If DCG get another fever while in care Friday (or seems sick at all) I'm terming on the stop. Is this unreasonable? My DH says it is and I should just turn away at the door and allow back Monday.

He has some good points, back I don't want to be walked on anymore... I've gone through so many families in the last few months... he thinks I'm running them all out...

As well as the bolded/red above, I'd be having a little chat with her.
"DCM, I need to touch base with you about your first week of care. I want to be sure we are both on the same page about what each other's expectations are and that you've reviewed the handbook and are confident you will be comfortable with my policies going forward.

I want to be very candid and let you know that on Wednesday, you mentioned you gave dcg ibuprofen before arriving to daycare. That cannot happen in the future. Ibuprofen is a fever masking medication. If she is ill enough to require medication, she needs to stay home. If it happens again, I will have to terminate our contract. I need to know I can rely on parents to keep their sick children in the comforts of their own home for the safety of the child and the rest of the group in my care. Thank you for understanding".

I wouldn't terminate just yet. I think lots of parents give a little push back in the beginning. If it turns offensive, disrespectful or continues after the honeymoon phase... then I'd terminate.

[Denali]

Sometimes I still struggle but it has gotten better after 4.5 years (and a looooooooot of coaching help from the ladies on here!). It will get better for you, too. If all else fails and you need to be blunt/rude/whatever then just smile. Also tack on "I'm sure you understand" or "thank you for understanding!" to the end of difficult to swallow concepts for them/defiant behaviors that you're stopping. It confuses them. ::

Thank you for that advice. The kindergartener is contracted from 7:45 to 10:15am, as school starts at 10:30. Mom didn't show up for pick up until 10:30 on the dot. So I told her we were getting worried about her since pick up was at 10:15! She told me that she was with a client, so I asked if 10:30am would be the latest for pick up? She gave me a look, said "Yeah, she's supposed to be at school by then."
Me: ok, well since this is your second day and we are still figuring out timing, I'll Change your contracted pick up time to 10:30 just this once so you don't get any late pick up fees in the future. (Smiled nice and big, I had time to prepare myself to talk to her with those 15 minutes)
She purses her lips and said: I didnt realize it was so important.
Me: I do diapers, potty children that need help, make meals, and plan activities around pick up and drop off times...

backbone wavering with the look she was giving me. She opened her mouth to say something, and I blurted out "thank you for your understanding!"

She looked so so confused... said "sure..?"

So I diverted attention to DCG before she could gather herself and said "I hope you have a good day at school!"

Mom still looked thrown off when they left.

So thank you! Didn't realize I'd use it so soon... 😳

[Denali]

As well as the bolded/red above, I'd be having a little chat with her.
"DCM, I need to touch base with you about your first week of care. I want to be sure we are both on the same page about what each other's expectations are and that you've reviewed the handbook and are confident you will be comfortable with my policies going forward.

I want to be very candid and let you know that on Wednesday, you mentioned you gave dcg ibuprofen before arriving to daycare. That cannot happen in the future. Ibuprofen is a fever masking medication. If she is ill enough to require medication, she needs to stay home. If it happens again, I will have to terminate our contract. I need to know I can rely on parents to keep their sick children in the comforts of their own home for the safety of the child and the rest of the group in my care. Thank you for understanding".

I wouldn't terminate just yet. I think lots of parents give a little push back in the beginning. If it turns offensive, disrespectful or continues after the honeymoon phase... then I'd terminate.

I get a lot of parents that start out thinking that way about medication curing the illness. That "oh, they are acting fine! Temp is down! It has nothing to do with the fact that I just gave them medicine to make them feel better 30 minutes ago ! Not at all."

And thank you for that wording. I think I will type something up and than also discuss in person.

The push back thing is exactly what my husband said too. They are like children testing to see if what I have on paper stands. I just need to make sure to follow policies and stand strong and they will either stay or go.

[MunchkinWrangler]

I like Ariana's advice however I would go straight for a term but that's because I am very clear and very strict on my illness policy with parents.

I'm guessing dcm knew she was sick, doped and dropped. She has exposed you, your household, and the rest of the group you care for to whatever "little bug" dcg has. I don't accept kids into care with any meds for exactly this reason.

I am re-reading Nan's book right now.... "The Parent who lies about Health". Dope and drops. Classic lines that parents use.... well her line is in the book. Seriously. Read the book

Agree!!!

Of course dcg looked and felt fine....she was on meds!!!

This is a classic dope and drop except for the fact that dcm actually told you about it, except for the most obvious that she had a fever, which is against your illness policies!!!! She unabashedly broke policy and IMO rubbed it in your face.

Not to sound harsh but you let dcm get away with it. I would get ready to term. She is already taking advantage of you and trying to bend the rules to see what you will tolerate.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Thank you for that advice. The kindergartener is contracted from 7:45 to 10:15am, as school starts at 10:30. Mom didn't show up for pick up until 10:30 on the dot. So I told her we were getting worried about her since pick up was at 10:15! She told me that she was with a client, so I asked if 10:30am would be the latest for pick up? She gave me a look, said "Yeah, she's supposed to be at school by then."
Me: ok, well since this is your second day and we are still figuring out timing, I'll Change your contracted pick up time to 10:30 just this once so you don't get any late pick up fees in the future. (Smiled nice and big, I had time to prepare myself to talk to her with those 15 minutes)
She purses her lips and said: I didnt realize it was so important.
Me: I do diapers, potty children that need help, make meals, and plan activities around pick up and drop off times...

backbone wavering with the look she was giving me. She opened her mouth to say something, and I blurted out "thank you for your understanding!"

She looked so so confused... said "sure..?"

So I diverted attention to DCG before she could gather herself and said "I hope you have a good day at school!"

Mom still looked thrown off when they left.

So thank you! Didn't realize I'd use it so soon... 😳

I want to say BlackCat gave that advice before. Another good piece of advice is DON'T FILL THE SILENCE! That's what they bank on sometimes. They want to make it uncomfortable so you cave to their demands. I just stand staring and blinking OR I stand smiling and blinking. Those awkward silence spots happen less and less as they realize nothing is going to change...they're just going to be standing there looking at me.

happyface Great job!

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I get a lot of parents that start out thinking that way about medication curing the illness. That "oh, they are acting fine! Temp is down! It has nothing to do with the fact that I just gave them medicine to make them feel better 30 minutes ago ! Not at all."

And thank you for that wording. I think I will type something up and than also discuss in person.

The push back thing is exactly what my husband said too. They are like children testing to see if what I have on paper stands. I just need to make sure to follow policies and stand strong and they will either stay or go.

Did they sign an agreement to the policies you provided them with before enrolling?

If so, you never need to feel embarrassed, anxious, etc. about enforcing the policies they agreed to abide by. If they disliked the policies so much or couldn't abide by them then they shouldn't have enrolled.

[Denali]

Did they sign an agreement to the policies you provided them with before enrolling?

If so, you never need to feel embarrassed, anxious, etc. about enforcing the policies they agreed to abide by. If they disliked the policies so much or couldn't abide by them then they shouldn't have enrolled.

Yes they did. Kids don't come if I don't have a contract signed saying how much and when they will be paying me, times of drop-off/pick-up, and agreeing to my policies.

Thank you. I do sometimes feel guilty... but you are right. I shouldn't. I'm working on that and you have an excellent point.

Update: got a text from DCM at 6:30am telling me that "DCG spiked another fever last night and this morning, so they are staying home again today."