Is She Entitled to a Refund??

[AmyKidsCo]

There's a lesson in every bad experience.

Yep! That's why my parent handbook is soooooo looooooong! ::

[Josiegirl]

Not sure how the credit card payment works but have you received it, deposited it, used it....she can't get it back now can she? If she thinks it's worth it to take you to court, let her. It's doubtful that she will. And everything else, let it go and good luck with your new dcfs!!
This business is a perfect example of live and learn. Seems like there's a lesson every day.

[Thriftylady]

Not sure how the credit card payment works but have you received it, deposited it, used it....she can't get it back now can she? If she thinks it's worth it to take you to court, let her. It's doubtful that she will. And everything else, let it go and good luck with your new dcfs!!
This business is a perfect example of live and learn. Seems like there's a lesson every day.

You can cancel credit card payments and get the money reversed. I am not sure what the rules are or what you have to prove or whatever. I have heard of it happening and then the person paid having to fight to get the money back from the CC company. So there is a process, I am just not sure what it is. Now if it is a bank I understand it a little more. You have to ask the person paid with the debit card for a refund, if they won't give it you can ask the bank, then they will investigate it and decide. The money doesn't get returned from a debit card transaction until the bank decides it should be.

[Alwaysgreener]

Thanks guys, I feel better about this. I'm taking my losses on the two weeks notice. Thankfully, I already have another child lined up to start next week. My main concern was that she could try and fight the charge with her bank. I know that banks like to give customer's the benefit of the doubt. I've seen this happen many times when I worked a customer service job.

Not 100% sure how cc work, however if it was PayPal, she would have to prove she was not offered any service and you would have to prove you offered. As long as you maintain that she can still bring her dd tues thru fri like normal, you should be safe.

[Alwaysgreener]

Also in the future, don't tell them they are paying for a full time spot. Tell them they are paying for these days.

[ChelseaB]

Speaking as an old accountant, I specialized in resolving credit card disputes (whenever someone would claim a charge our company issued as being fraud).

Typically, the bank will send a notice to the address of the account holder explaining why they are reversing the charge and granting an opportunity for you to provide documentation as to why it's a valid charge. In all truthfulness, it is extremely difficult to prove why a charge is valid enough to uphold it.

HOWEVER -- in this instance, she would have had to manually accept transferring that type of payment to you, correct? If this is the case, it may be more difficult for her to protest the charge with her bank. Also, you could try sending her a letter demanding payment for that week (and any fees associated with it) if she does protest it, or else you'll pursue legal options. Sometimes the threat is enough to scare them into just making the payment. Or you can just take your 2 (or 3) week loss and completely cut ties to avoid the headache. Yeah, it stinks -- but it's up for you to decide if $345 is worth it or not. And for what it's worth, I do feel that you had a verbal contract if nothing else, so you do have a leg to stand on.

[Thriftylady]

Speaking as an old accountant, I specialized in resolving credit card disputes (whenever someone would claim a charge our company issued as being fraud).

Typically, the bank will send a notice to the address of the account holder explaining why they are reversing the charge and granting an opportunity for you to provide documentation as to why it's a valid charge. In all truthfulness, it is extremely difficult to prove why a charge is valid enough to uphold it.

HOWEVER -- in this instance, she would have had to manually accept transferring that type of payment to you, correct? If this is the case, it may be more difficult for her to protest the charge with her bank. Also, you could try sending her a letter demanding payment for that week (and any fees associated with it) if she does protest it, or else you'll pursue legal options. Sometimes the threat is enough to scare them into just making the payment. Or you can just take your 2 (or 3) week loss and completely cut ties to avoid the headache. Yeah, it stinks -- but it's up for you to decide if $345 is worth it or not. And for what it's worth, I do feel that you had a verbal contract if nothing else, so you do have a leg to stand on.

I agree that a verbal contract is valid, but they are much harder to prove. I have seen that go either way. That is why in this case though the texts are important. She is somewhat agreeing in the texts she is supposed to pay at least for the current week, so that helps there. The two weeks notice is a whole different thing. Mom may say she never agreed to it or whatever.

[childcaremom]

I think the only thing that she is entitled to is a term notice.

You have received great advice. I would not offer a refund either. I would make the offer to care Thurs/Fri and then give her two weeks notice, just to make it formal.

I would then cease communication unless she plans to use those days.

[sleepinghart]

So here's my situation...
I had a parent whos schedule was Thursday-Friday. NO Mondays, she didnt work on Mondays. Mondays are great days for me because I only have 2 kiddos, both that leave by 4:30pm. I typically plan my families plans around Monday afternoons... Dr Apts, family dinner plans Etc.

Sunday night at 10PM, this parent decides to text me and say that her daughter will be dropped off late on Monday because she has to work from 3-7pm. Not asking me if it was okay, TELLING me she was dropping off. Well, this is an issue because I have a dentist appointment scheduled for my son at 4:30. I politely let her know that unfortunately, I already have an appointment scheduled, and would not be able to watch her daughter tomorrow.

This sets her off.... She gets upset and demands that I only charge her a daily rate for this week because now she has Tuesday off work and wont be dropping her off on Tuesday, and I had surgery scheduled for my husband on Wednesday and was closed (Which was pre-arranged almost 2 weeks in advance). Therefore, I was only watching her daughter on Thursday and Friday.

Again, I politely explain to her that I do not offer part time or daily rates. I offer a flat rate of $115 per week for full time care. She also already pre-paid for the week on the Friday prior, and did not mention anything about wanting a daily rate for the following week. She also did not give me any type of notice that her schedule had changed and that she was off on Tuesday.

Once I sent her the text message saying I will not refund her money, she was livid. She then began to tell me that paying a full time rate for 2 days of care is unacceptable, and she will not pay it. She now wants a full refund, and will not be bringing her daughter back to my daycare.

Here's where I made a big mistake.... I had given her a contract when she started, and never got a signed contract back from her. So, when I informed her that I require a 2 weeks paid notice, she pretty much laughed in my face and said there was no contract, and that she doesnt owe me anything. Understandable.... my bad for not getting the contract signed. However, she is demanding that I give her a refund for the week she pre-paid for, even though I still offered to watch her daughter on the Tuesday I was supposed to watch her, as well as Thursday and Friday. She refused my offer and said she was pulling her daughter out immediately.

So... What are your thoughts? Is she entitled to a refund because I didnt watch her daughter? (Again, HER choice to pull her out). She paid with a credit card (Square)... and I'm worried that she can try and file a claim with her bank.

Im fairly new to the daycare scene and this is the first issue I've had with a parent.

~ No way, no how would I give her a refund if it were me. ~...Stay strong!

~As far as the unsigned contract, the fact that she didn't sign it doesn't necessarily mean there is no contract between you two. Which is good because it doesn't make sense for people to use the argument "I don't owe this or have to follow this because I didn't sign the contract" when in saying so they acknowledge that they did indeed know about the contracts terms, or that there was a contract, but just want to get out of fulfilling their obligations on a technicality or either that they knew of them and decided to ignore them...either way they knew; and I've never understood this argument. ~Anyway, IMO only because I'm not an attorney, she showed mutual assent, which is what is required in contract law I think, by receiving/accepting the contract and using your services. Here are some quotes on contract law; they are not specifically about daycare contracts but are just general information. Now whether you want to actually push the issue and let it go to court is up to you, taking into consideration how much money it is, time spent, and the headache of it all, etc., but I definitely would NOT give her a refund for this week!

"The written document is not the contract, It is merely a record of the parties' agreement" https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/a...s-1416951.html

"Not all contracts need to be signed before they are legally binding."

"A party must agree to the terms of a contract in order for it to become legally binding. Although this is usually done by the signature of those with authority to enter into the agreement, it is commonly recognised that parties can enter into a contract by a course of dealing, signifying their acceptance of the terms of the contract.

In January 2009, the High Court in Grant v Bragg considered whether a contract was formed by two parties agreeing to the terms of the draft contract via e-mail. The Court considered it was enough for Mr Grant to have e-mailed Mr Bragg, accepting the contract's terms previously e-mailed to him by Mr Bragg's lawyer, and that it did not matter that neither party had actually signed the contract".

- See more at: http://www.pannone.com/media-centre/....HWxLwcCg.dpuf

[rosieteddy]

First I would not refund the tuition. I would however term her if that is doable for you.I would inform her that your daily rate is 40.00 dollars a day and if she wants that then she owes you 5 dollars for next week. I found charging more for part time can be lucrative. Sometimes two part timers will fill one spot for a little more money. I would not hold her to the two weeks notice if she continues the argument.

[NightOwl]

You used Square, so you needed her signature as an authorization for the transaction, right? I think that signature is all you need as proof that she authorized the transaction. The bank won't get involved in the whys and hows of it, just whether it was authorized by her.

[sleepinghart]

First I would not refund the tuition. I would however term her if that is doable for you.I would inform her that your daily rate is 40.00 dollars a day and if she wants that then she owes you 5 dollars for next week. I found charging more for part time can be lucrative. Sometimes two part timers will fill one spot for a little more money. I would not hold her to the two weeks notice if she continues the argument.

(^^bolding^^ by me)
~Ooohhappyface...That is a great idea!

[daycarediva]

I only have a contract right now, but Im starting to see the importance of a handbook. My theory going into daycare was that I wanted to make everything as simple as possible, not be so strict on the rules like most daycares. I'm a mom of 2 boys, and can remember taking my boys to daycare and dealing with all the crazy policies these daycares had.... I NOW UNDERSTAND WHY THESE POLICIES ARE IN PLACE! It makes so much sense. Its unfortunate that we have to be strict on our rules, but I now see why...

For every policy in my handbook, there was a ridiculous parent and a story behind it.

You used Square, so you needed her signature as an authorization for the transaction, right? I think that signature is all you need as proof that she authorized the transaction. The bank won't get involved in the whys and hows of it, just whether it was authorized by her.

I had a DCP recently try to get a refund for her final two week payment when she found other care and wasn't going to be using the last (1) week.

Square contacted me that I had a disputed transaction. I gave them details. She swiped her card and signed. Her card was not stolen. She had admitted to the cc company of using it since that transaction. It was dismissed.

Square told me that IF she had claimed it was stolen- she could have it refunded, but it would look unusual to have a charge show up at a small family child care, and especially one that she had previously used so IF she had claimed stolen card, she would have most likely been investigated for fraud.

[Rudy's Rascals]

Thank you everyone for the good advice! I think I might be in the safe zone. She hasnt contacted me since Sunday, and I have not heard anything from my bank about a reversal on the charge. Definitely a learning experience though.

[Thriftylady]

For every policy in my handbook, there was a ridiculous parent and a story behind it.

This is true! Some of the stuff I would have never thought of on my own!