Is This an Underlying Issue?

[TwinMama]

I have a 4 year old that does some things that stand out from the others. Some might be because he's 4, but my little ones even get irritated by his behavior. Maybe it's because he's an only child, but I feel like there's an issue there. A few things he does:

-Talks to himself mostly whispering. Otherwise he's loud and constantly saying something. Not just a talker...he has to be saying something even if he's not speaking to anyone else.

-Doesn't stop moving. Even if he's just sitting he constantly has to kick his foot or pick at his hands. He does this so much that he gets sores on his fingers that get infected.

-Has to know what will happen next. He wants an itinerary of the day. Even if we've discussed what we're doing already he'll ask anyhow. The thing is we do the same things every day. Same schedule of events.

-He needs to be in control of play time. I have to remind him to let the other kids play. He can never play by himself. When we do free play he tells me the storyline of their play time. Even if the other kids are doing something totally different he'll say that they're ALL at a construction site and building a house or whatever. He needs for them to do what he wants and if the others are playing with the kitchen and not even acknowledging him he'll say they're all cooking dinner or cooking at a restaurant. I'll say things like "well buddy it looks like they're feeding babies and doing their own thing instead of that."

-He's starving for attention. If I tell good job to one of the babies for sharing or stacking blocks he'll do the same thing no matter what age the other child is because he wants me to praise him. I try not to encourage this behavior. I'll usually say something like "Buddy, she's little and has never done that before. You know how to stack blocks and drink out of a sip cup already. This is a big deal for her to be able to do it".

-One of the kids will hug another one and I'll say that's nice to be good to one another. He immediately runs over to get in on it too to get praise and the other kids get upset with him or he ends up knocking them down.

-He constantly says I love you but if you don't say it back he'll ask you why you didn't and don't you love him too.

-He will ask me every day for candy and treats that I might offer during a holiday or on a special day. I try to explain to him that it was a special occasion but he'll just say "oh, well when can I have it then? In a little while?" Mom rewards no time outs for the day with candy. The second she walks in the door he'll say "no time outs can I have my gum now?" Or "only one time out can I still have candy?" His Mom even joked that his Grandma used to give marshmallows to him for pooping at her house and even though he's trained he'll still try and poop 2 or 3 times when he's there to get marshmallows.

-Outside today he made the kids stop the saw horse swing so he could get on it just to make us stop it less than one minute later. I don't know if he just wants to be like "hey I'm here". I told him that if he disrupts the other kids swinging again just to make them stop right away I'll make him stay on because it's not fair to the others to make them stop. He does this all the time.

-If he sees two kids playing nice together he'll recruit one to play with him and exclude the other one. I don't know if it's so the other child will only play with him or what. He gets put on time out for this.

-Recently one of the kids Grandma came to pick them up. The other kids were like oh..that's dcb grandma and continued to play and look at books. He immediately starting getting loud so they would notice him and he even tripped dcb when he was running around excited that his Grandma was there.

The same sort of thing happened when my son was getting his first haircut. The other kids would watch and my friends Mom who was cutting it gave my son a comb to play with to occupy him. Dcb immediately said "I want a comb to play with why don't I get a comb too? "

This is every day he responds this way and he's going to start preschool. I feel like he's going to have a difficult time when there's a whole classroom of kids and he's not always in the spotlight. He's got speech issues as well but he was tested and will be going to see a speech therapist during school time. I just worry about the other kids mimicking his behavior. I'll be relieved in a way when he's only here half days.

Is this behavior normal?

[daycare]

Sounds like to me he is starving for attention and is willing to do anything to get it.

I had one of those we got her to stop. We ignore her when she's loud and when she's annoyed everyone with repetitive question we answer GO PLAY with a big smile. I sing it to her go play go play Claudia go play!

I affirm what kids are doing in way that doesn't involved my judgment. So I stayed of good job or you're playing nice, I say wow you stacked the blocks, Sally, you are sitting down, billy you are reading. This gets them to stop craving your praise. But let's them know you care about what they are doing and are still connecting to them.

The girl I have is soooooo much better she was not very liked here by any of the kids because she was just like your dck. After tons of affirming and a lot of GO PLAY she's doing great here. Been here almost a year. ��

[Mike]

Definitely wants attention. Usually that means he's getting none at home, but sometimes it's because he's the center of attention at home and expects to be anywhere.

When I first started helping on our Sunday School bus, I found out the reason why they couldn't get a helper to stay. We had 2 little boys who were the same way. They did everything to get attention. I explained to them that I was on the bus to watch all the kids, not just them, but if they settle down, I will sit with them sometimes and even let them help me with the other kids. 2 weeks later, they were like little angels and great helpers.

[Dilley Beans]

I read a saying the other day, "children who are loved at home go to school to learn, children who are aren't, go to school to be loved." This goes for attention too. He needs more attention than most probably, but also isn't getting it from the people he most wants it from.

[e.j.]

I have a 4 year old that does some things that stand out from the others. Some might be because he's 4, but my little ones even get irritated by his behavior. Maybe it's because he's an only child, but I feel like there's an issue there. A few things he does:

-Talks to himself mostly whispering. Otherwise he's loud and constantly saying something. Not just a talker...he has to be saying something even if he's not speaking to anyone else.

-Doesn't stop moving. Even if he's just sitting he constantly has to kick his foot or pick at his hands. He does this so much that he gets sores on his fingers that get infected.

-Has to know what will happen next. He wants an itinerary of the day. Even if we've discussed what we're doing already he'll ask anyhow. The thing is we do the same things every day. Same schedule of events.

-He needs to be in control of play time. I have to remind him to let the other kids play. He can never play by himself. When we do free play he tells me the storyline of their play time. Even if the other kids are doing something totally different he'll say that they're ALL at a construction site and building a house or whatever. He needs for them to do what he wants and if the others are playing with the kitchen and not even acknowledging him he'll say they're all cooking dinner or cooking at a restaurant. I'll say things like "well buddy it looks like they're feeding babies and doing their own thing instead of that."

-He's starving for attention. If I tell good job to one of the babies for sharing or stacking blocks he'll do the same thing no matter what age the other child is because he wants me to praise him. I try not to encourage this behavior. I'll usually say something like "Buddy, she's little and has never done that before. You know how to stack blocks and drink out of a sip cup already. This is a big deal for her to be able to do it".

-One of the kids will hug another one and I'll say that's nice to be good to one another. He immediately runs over to get in on it too to get praise and the other kids get upset with him or he ends up knocking them down.

-He constantly says I love you but if you don't say it back he'll ask you why you didn't and don't you love him too.

-He will ask me every day for candy and treats that I might offer during a holiday or on a special day. I try to explain to him that it was a special occasion but he'll just say "oh, well when can I have it then? In a little while?" Mom rewards no time outs for the day with candy. The second she walks in the door he'll say "no time outs can I have my gum now?" Or "only one time out can I still have candy?" His Mom even joked that his Grandma used to give marshmallows to him for pooping at her house and even though he's trained he'll still try and poop 2 or 3 times when he's there to get marshmallows.

-Outside today he made the kids stop the saw horse swing so he could get on it just to make us stop it less than one minute later. I don't know if he just wants to be like "hey I'm here". I told him that if he disrupts the other kids swinging again just to make them stop right away I'll make him stay on because it's not fair to the others to make them stop. He does this all the time.

-If he sees two kids playing nice together he'll recruit one to play with him and exclude the other one. I don't know if it's so the other child will only play with him or what. He gets put on time out for this.

-Recently one of the kids Grandma came to pick them up. The other kids were like oh..that's dcb grandma and continued to play and look at books. He immediately starting getting loud so they would notice him and he even tripped dcb when he was running around excited that his Grandma was there.

The same sort of thing happened when my son was getting his first haircut. The other kids would watch and my friends Mom who was cutting it gave my son a comb to play with to occupy him. Dcb immediately said "I want a comb to play with why don't I get a comb too? "

This is every day he responds this way and he's going to start preschool. I feel like he's going to have a difficult time when there's a whole classroom of kids and he's not always in the spotlight. He's got speech issues as well but he was tested and will be going to see a speech therapist during school time. I just worry about the other kids mimicking his behavior. I'll be relieved in a way when he's only here half days.

Is this behavior normal?

I'm going to be the odd man out and say that while his behavior could be just attention seeking behavior, it could also be an indication of a neurological problem like autism - especially the things I highlighted. I'd have a discussion with his parents, asking them if they see the same kinds of behaviors you see. If they're open to it, I'd suggest they run your list past the dcb's pediatrician to see if he/she feels there's reason to be concerned about the behaviors you're seeing.

[NightOwl]

I'm going to be the odd man out and say that while his behavior could be just attention seeking behavior, it could also be an indication of a neurological problem like autism - especially the things I highlighted. I'd have a discussion with his parents, asking them if they see the same kinds of behaviors you see. If they're open to it, I'd suggest they run your list past the dcb's pediatrician to see if he/she feels there's reason to be concerned about the behaviors you're seeing.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Something sounds off, besides being attention seeking. He seems to have a need to be in control or needs a lot of structure in his life to feel safe. Does he make meaningful eye contact? Does he enjoy physical affection like hugs? Does he smile often? Does he hoard? Have weird eating habits? He has several similarities to a boy I knew who had Aspurger's, which is on the autism spectrum.

Keep in mind, if you recommend an evaluation, do NOT say you think he is on the spectrum or anything that sounds diagnostic. We aren't doctors. So we can't make that call.

[spedmommy4]

I'm going to be the odd man out and say that while his behavior could be just attention seeking behavior, it could also be an indication of a neurological problem like autism - especially the things I highlighted. I'd have a discussion with his parents, asking them if they see the same kinds of behaviors you see. If they're open to it, I'd suggest they run your list past the dcb's pediatrician to see if he/she feels there's reason to be concerned about the behaviors you're seeing.

I'm leaning toward underlying issue too. He's definitely got a lot of red flags. My son has Aspergers and he frequently "checks in" to see if we still love him. He doesn't ask what we are doing but every day he's asking about what we are going to eat hours before the meal. Lots of ritual/routine behavior.

If I had not learned how to respond over the years, it would be much more intense. It sounds like your little guy might have a combination of something going on and attention seeking behaviors that have been reinforced for years.

You need to reduce attention for behaviors he's using to get your attention. For example, you can direct him to a schedule when he's asking what your going to do next. (A schedule would just be pictures of the things you do every day.). The first few times you show him how to use the schedule then you tell him to check it. After awhile, asking you is no longer engaging.

In addition to reducing attention attention to behaviors, I would have an honest conversation with the parents about what you've observed.

[TwinMama]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Something sounds off, besides being attention seeking. He seems to have a need to be in control or needs a lot of structure in his life to feel safe. Does he make meaningful eye contact? Does he enjoy physical affection like hugs? Does he smile often? Does he hoard? Have weird eating habits? He has several similarities to a boy I knew who had Aspurger's, which is on the autism spectrum.

Keep in mind, if you recommend an evaluation, do NOT say you think he is on the spectrum or anything that sounds diagnostic. We aren't doctors. So we can't make that call.

I completely agree. The problem that I have with his mom is that she thinks he's a genius. He knows some basic math. Once I tried to let her know that when we were working with letters he couldn't recognize some of the letters especially if they were in different formats (flashcards, magnets, book form) because the font is a little different between them all. She responded and said, "Oh. Ok. Well you need to be making the sound of the letter instead of just asking him what letter it is."

He also has spacial issues. He needs to be touching you with his knee or arm or leaning against you. I spoke to her about this once and let her know that we were working on personal space and how we need to respect everyone's personal space. She responded and said, "Yeh, he used to have issues with that but doesn't anymore. Good luck getting the other kids to figure it out." Then she immediately left.

She wasn't happy that he didn't pass the speech/communication test either. When she took him she said, "I doubt they tell us we need it." When she came back and I inquired i feel like she was in denial. I assured her that it's a good thing because it'll help him.

[spedmommy4]

I completely agree. The problem that I have with his mom is that she thinks he's a genius. He knows some basic math. Once I tried to let her know that when we were working with letters he couldn't recognize some of the letters especially if they were in different formats (flashcards, magnets, book form) because the font is a little different between them all. She responded and said, "Oh. Ok. Well you need to be making the sound of the letter instead of just asking him what letter it is."

He also has spacial issues. He needs to be touching you with his knee or arm or leaning against you. I spoke to her about this once and let her know that we were working on personal space and how we need to respect everyone's personal space. She responded and said, "Yeh, he used to have issues with that but doesn't anymore. Good luck getting the other kids to figure it out." Then she immediately left.

She wasn't happy that he didn't pass the speech/communication test either. When she took him she said, "I doubt they tell us we need it." When she came back and I inquired i feel like she was in denial. I assured her that it's a good thing because it'll help him.

I have a tough little one similar to yours. I'm actually certain that the little guy in my program is on the spectrum. Both of his parents are therapists and they haven't wanted to "see" it.

I purposefully delayed dcd the other day so he would see his child's interactions. The dck had an interaction that just tanked right in front of the dad and I seized the opportunity. In that moment, I talked to dad about how his inability to effectively communicate with other kids was really making it hard for him to make friends. Dad finally agreed that it was time to make the referral.

In my experience, some parents just need to see the impact of their kids needs before they are able to believe it or address it.

[e.j.]

I completely agree. The problem that I have with his mom is that she thinks he's a genius.

Funny thing is, he could be a genius and still have Autism.

[Blackcat31]

Funny thing is, he could be a genius and still have Autism.

Absolutely!

My son has Asperger's (autism spectrum) but has an IQ of over 130

Many autistic people have high IQ's.

[NightOwl]

Lack of understanding of what personal boundaries are is another red flag for the spectrum.

[TwinMama]

Absolutely!

My son has Asperger's (autism spectrum) but has an IQ of over 130

Many autistic people have high IQ's.

Funny thing is, he could be a genius and still have Autism.

I was not insinuating that he wasn't smart.

What I meant was:

She thinks everything he does is gold. He's a precious snowflake. So when you tell her something or discuss anything with her about problems he has she disregards it because it couldn't be possible that he would have issues.

[Blackcat31]

I was not insinuating that he wasn't smart.

What I meant was:

She thinks everything he does is gold. He's a precious snowflake. So when you tell her something or discuss anything with her about problems he has she disregards it because it couldn't be possible that he would have issues.

I didn't think you meant anything derogatory... I commented because many people don't realize that a lot of ASD kids are actually geniuses.

As for mom...of course she thinks he can do no wrong. She's his mom. I think we are all guilty of the same.

[TwinMama]

I didn't think you meant anything derogatory... I commented because many people don't realize that a lot of ASD kids are actually geniuses.

As for mom...of course she thinks he can do no wrong. She's his mom. I think we are all guilty of the same.

Absolutely. I totally get that. I just don't know what to do. When ever I say something to mom about his behavior she's weird about it and standoffish to me a while later. I want him to get the help he needs, but I don't feel like she'll feel there's an issue.