I Need Some New Tricks

[TXhomedaycare]

I have a 4 yo dcb that tells me know and refuses to do anything when he gets in trouble. Example: Dcb takes someone else toy or throws something I tell him to give the toy back or sit in time out and he says no or flips out and throws and kicks thinks and streams. I tell him multiple times to come cool down or try and talk to him but he says no and refuses to do anything. He either sits and yells and makes himself cry or he sits and stares me down a won't move. My first trick is to let him sit and calm down but keep working with the other kids and not let him participate or play until he sits down in the calm down spot. I try and use the you don't get what you want until I get what I want method but sometimes I don't have time for that. This issue is happening multiple times a day and I have now hit my limit of him yelling no and not following directions and being disrespectful to me and my husband (who would love to spank him ). I need some new tricks or discipline tips for how to handle a child who will not listen when you tell them to do something. At this point my next trick will be making a termination notice appear

[Josiegirl]

Oh I dunno, I kind of agree with your dh. JK But I've got a 4 yo dcg who is soooo similar to this. It's very frustrating because it almost feels like they've got you where they want you and look at you like 'what are ya gonna do about it'.
I know my dcg loses privileges throughout every day. Kids take books, stuffed animals or a baby to nap with; those are the first things taken away. Favorite toys or activities get taken away. That is after they've corrected their mistake.
In fact, my 4 yo and 2 yo dcgs were arguing about something this a.m. and before I could get there to help, the 4 yo pushed 2 yo. So I set her on the couch(right near by) and checked 2 yo to calm her down and make sure she was okay. 4 yo hopped off the couch, ran by 2 yo and pinched her, kept running off. Some days all I can think is 'good thing you're not my child!'
Also, the thought crosses my mind that these are often the kids who need more positive attention in their lives. So after the situation has diffused(along with my mood)I give more hugs and attention to all.
Good luck, it is NOT easy.

[childcaremom]

I have a 4 yo dcb that tells me know and refuses to do anything when he gets in trouble. Example: Dcb takes someone else toy or throws something I tell him to give the toy back or sit in time out and he says no or flips out and throws and kicks thinks and streams. I tell him multiple times to come cool down or try and talk to him but he says no and refuses to do anything. He either sits and yells and makes himself cry or he sits and stares me down a won't move. My first trick is to let him sit and calm down but keep working with the other kids and not let him participate or play until he sits down in the calm down spot. I try and use the you don't get what you want until I get what I want method but sometimes I don't have time for that. This issue is happening multiple times a day and I have now hit my limit of him yelling no and not following directions and being disrespectful to me and my husband (who would love to spank him ). I need some new tricks or discipline tips for how to handle a child who will not listen when you tell them to do something. At this point my next trick will be making a termination notice appear

My go to is natural consequences. I save time outs for the big infractions.

However, if it gets to a point where a child is not responding to my discipline techniques, it's time for us to part ways. Especially at 4 years old.

[daycarediva]

My go to is natural consequences. I save time outs for the big infractions.

However, if it gets to a point where a child is not responding to my discipline techniques, it's time for us to part ways. Especially at 4 years old.

Are the parents aware of his behavior?

If not, I would bring it up NOW. "Dcb has been acting defiant at school, (list things here). So that we are being consistent with our discipline and expectations for dcb, what do you do at home when he ________?"

If they say nothing, or he doesn't behave that way, etc. RUN. He does, but they aren't doing anything to fix it. I will no longer work with parents who aren't working with me.

If they say _____. Is it workable in your program? Does it work? If it's something you can do, or if you and the parent can come up with some kind of 'plan of action'. Type it up, with a DATE for improvement. At his age, these are NOT developmentally appropriate behaviors.

I would keep the parents updated with daily notes or emails (paper trail). For your own records as well, I would start NOW, the documentation helps note times per day, severity, words said by child, and duration.

If it isn't drastically improved by the specified date, I would term.

[childcaremom]

Are the parents aware of his behavior?

If not, I would bring it up NOW. "Dcb has been acting defiant at school, (list things here). So that we are being consistent with our discipline and expectations for dcb, what do you do at home when he ________?"

If they say nothing, or he doesn't behave that way, etc. RUN. He does, but they aren't doing anything to fix it. I will no longer work with parents who aren't working with me.

If they say _____. Is it workable in your program? Does it work? If it's something you can do, or if you and the parent can come up with some kind of 'plan of action'. Type it up, with a DATE for improvement. At his age, these are NOT developmentally appropriate behaviors.

I would keep the parents updated with daily notes or emails (paper trail). For your own records as well, I would start NOW, the documentation helps note times per day, severity, words said by child, and duration.

If it isn't drastically improved by the specified date, I would term.

A much fuller answer. :: Yes, I do these steps, too, I guess I assumed that involving the dcps had already taken place.

Is this a new thing for him or ongoing issue? I have dcks that go through rebellious periods, checking to see if the boundaries are still there and whatnot, but they generally snap out of it pretty quick.

[Ariana]

Is there any way you can remove him from the room altogether? Maybe put him in an adjacent room with the door closed or a gate locked until he calms down? To me this is clearly a cry for attention and he is thriving on negative attention at home as well. By remaining in the vicinity it is only spurring him on I think. Removing him where no one can see him would be what I would do. Once he is quiet I would ask him "would you like to try again" and then allow him to play as usual. I usually ask them if they want a hug (to show them I still care about them) and I also acknowledge their negative feeling ("I know you are upset but you cannot throw toys and hit") You may end up doing this a lot the first day or so but it will improve. Once it starts to improve you can start giving him some pro social behaviors like expressing himself verbally when he is upset or doesn't want to give a toy etc. and then also encourage him in any way you can to share, wait for his turn etc.

[TXhomedaycare]

A much fuller answer. :: Yes, I do these steps, too, I guess I assumed that involving the dcps had already taken place.

Is this a new thing for him or ongoing issue? I have dcks that go through rebellious periods, checking to see if the boundaries are still there and whatnot, but they generally snap out of it pretty quick.

This particular reaction is new but I have had discipline issues with this dcb for a while. Mom has tried but I think the second she starts to be inconsistent at home he acts out again. Since dcb started his parents got a divorce and he and his mom immediately moved in with new boyfriend and now they broke up and dcb never sees his dad because he has restraining order and has lost custody and dcb told me that his mom is sad now that her boyfriend is gone and she told him if he acts better maybe boyfriend might come back . Dcb has been acting out at home and boyfriend had had enough of being disrespected. I feel for this boy but I can only take so much. I have had many come to Jesus conversations with the mom and that helps for a while but then dcb starts acting out in another way and we have to start all over or she starts being inconsistent and he reverts back. I think I am finally done try on this one. I am going to give her a probation notice today. This is my second year doing this and I tend to think I am doing something wrong or that there is a better trick or technique I could be using so I come here just to see if there is something I could do differently before I throw in the towel.

[TXhomedaycare]

Is there any way you can remove him from the room altogether? Maybe put him in an adjacent room with the door closed or a gate locked until he calms down? To me this is clearly a cry for attention and he is thriving on negative attention at home as well. By remaining in the vicinity it is only spurring him on I think. Removing him where no one can see him would be what I would do. Once he is quiet I would ask him "would you like to try again" and then allow him to play as usual. I usually ask them if they want a hug (to show them I still care about them) and I also acknowledge their negative feeling ("I know you are upset but you cannot throw toys and hit") You may end up doing this a lot the first day or so but it will improve. Once it starts to improve you can start giving him some pro social behaviors like expressing himself verbally when he is upset or doesn't want to give a toy etc. and then also encourage him in any way you can to share, wait for his turn etc.

This is a 4 yo the size of a 6 yo, if he ain't movin I ain't movin him I tell him firmly and if he says no I try and take his hand and he runs or starts kicking so I no longer even try and move him. His mom picks him up but I will not injure myself for him.

[Unregistered]

Have you tried reaching him and the others how to resolve conflicts amongst themselves? If he takes a toy, don't say anything. If the other child complains, tell the other child to say, 'I'm using that' etc. For throwing things, be ready to stop it. If you miss it, tell him you won't let him throw things because it hurts people and things. Tell him if he isn't safe here, then he has to go to a different activity. When he does it again, move him to a different activity. ... Anyway, that's what I do. But if you're past dealing, just term

[Scribbles]

This is a 4 yo the size of a 6 yo, if he ain't movin I ain't movin him I tell him firmly and if he says no I try and take his hand and he runs or starts kicking so I no longer even try and move him. His mom picks him up but I will not injure myself for him.

I had a similar issue. After a ton of back and forth with mom and dad and only seeing improvement the day or two after a conference I decided to give the problem to the parents. I set up a behavior plan where the child was allowed 3 instances of disrespect or defiance and they would be sent home. My DC parents were worried it might teach the child to purposely be naughty so he could go home. I partly agreed but just couldnt deal with it anymore so I held my ground and told the parents I had no other options besides terming. I think the first two times he was sent home he purposely misbehaved but oddly enough after that second time being sent home, he started being much better behaved. I asked mom if anything had changed at home and she said they adjusted his bedtime, started enforcing good behavior more and followed through more consistently with discipline. Apparently time outs at home were basically go play in your room. Where all his toys and movies were. I think the parents finally stepped up because they got tired of having to leave work all the time. I still have the family but the DC boy is a ton better. So maybe sending him home when you've reached your limit would help.

[childcaremom]

This particular reaction is new but I have had discipline issues with this dcb for a while. Mom has tried but I think the second she starts to be inconsistent at home he acts out again. Since dcb started his parents got a divorce and he and his mom immediately moved in with new boyfriend and now they broke up and dcb never sees his dad because he has restraining order and has lost custody and dcb told me that his mom is sad now that her boyfriend is gone and she told him if he acts better maybe boyfriend might come back . Dcb has been acting out at home and boyfriend had had enough of being disrespected. I feel for this boy but I can only take so much. I have had many come to Jesus conversations with the mom and that helps for a while but then dcb starts acting out in another way and we have to start all over or she starts being inconsistent and he reverts back. I think I am finally done try on this one. I am going to give her a probation notice today. This is my second year doing this and I tend to think I am doing something wrong or that there is a better trick or technique I could be using so I come here just to see if there is something I could do differently before I throw in the towel.

:hug: In my very humble opinion, if a child is not disciplined at home, or receiving inconsistent discipline, it is VERY difficult to get them to behave for you in a daycare setting. Involves a lot of work and time.

That's not to say it can't be done. At all. But it requires a lot of consistency on your part and a lot of effort.

Dcm is clearly off base blaming dcb. It sounds like there is a LOT going on at home. Her inconsistencies are not going to help his behaviour. He needs stability and consistency and she is not giving that to him.

Yes, it sounds like he is acting out for attention. Yes, I feel for children in these types of situations. But I have also come to realize that I can't be everything for every child. My bucket only holds so much water. I will do my best. I will do what I can without draining myself. I will set a limit on how long I am willing to deal and/or look for improvements. And I am willing to cut my losses eventually.

Dcm needs to get her act together.

:hug: This job ain't easy. Whatever you decide to do. :hug:

[Unregistered]

I actually wrote that long ago before all the new information was posted and then I just now hit submit so all of the info hasn't been considered sounds like quite a situation for this poor little guy.