What Are the Penalties for Breaking A (Dumb) California Rule?

[daycare]

I agree that this wouldn't be a troll. But many of the posts seem a little "off" to me. Like paying $24 an hour for a substitute. No way any of us could afford that. Cheaper to close for the day or half day or whatever.

I thought the same thing about the cost of the sub, BUT in CA it could be possible. I have paid $20 an hour for one of my old assistants to come back and fill in for half the day. So I can see that $24an hour could be possible if it were very short term, which I think that most subs are.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I think since "infant" is different state to state, the laws could be perceived as inconsistent and that could make someone feel they are not logical. My state, an "infant" is under 24 months, but to me, that is a huge gap in ability versus a 2 month old. Six infants under age 12 months is a LOT, but a few under 12 months and some in the 16-24 month age range is doable, ime, and can work out just fine.

Bottom line, don't go over ratio. You will get in trouble and it could end up costing you a lot.

[Sergio]

First of all- thank you very much for your quick responses!

I must admit that, like some of you above said, I was a little bit trolling by calling this particular rule "dumb". You did educate me about child safety, so I definitely will respect this rule from now on.

Also, my wife has always been respecting all child care rules, including this one, because it's her dream to run a daycare.
The reason I asked this particular question is because she has been getting calls from parents of infants every week, and she already has a long waiting list. However, in the 6 months that she is open, not a single parent of a toddler showed any interest in her daycare.
That fact had frustrated me (but again not my beautiful smart wife), so that's why I asked the question the way I did.
[Plus, I was a bit too "emotional" after the Super Bowl.]

So the bottom line is this: I sincerely apologize for the way I asked my question, but I also thank you for your quick and insightful responses from the bottom of my heart!

[LysesKids]

I think since "infant" is different state to state, the laws could be perceived as inconsistent and that could make someone feel they are not logical. My state, an "infant" is under 24 months, but to me, that is a huge gap in ability versus a 2 month old. Six infants under age 12 months is a LOT, but a few under 12 months and some in the 16-24 month age range is doable, ime, and can work out just fine.

Bottom line, don't go over ratio. You will get in trouble and it could end up costing you a lot.

See that's why I can handle 4... not all are real little, only one of mine doesn't crawl or "couch surf" and he's trying to go "army" at the moment. My soon to be will be 7.5 months younger than the rest once he starts so he will get plenty of one on one (will start care at 6 weeks old, he's only 3 weeks right now)

[Unregistered]

I think it's dumb also because I think the age groups should be divided differently.
IMO

[thrivingchildcarecom]

Everything posted is right! The addition of an extra client is not worth the violation you would have attached to your license.

However, although I don't necessarily think its a dumb rule, it is hard considering the fact that most of the larger preschools are now accepting children as young as 2 yrs. This makes it difficult for FCC's because consequently the majority of the calls we get are for infants. Over the years I have turned away so many potential clients because of a ratio issue. Its really frustrating to see a need for the services you offer and not be able to accommodate. Especially if you need clients.

A colleague of mine and I are planning to write to our legislative representatives in Ca to see if we can have the law possibly changed. We both approached our analyst about possibly having the rule amended if perhaps there is an older infant (say 18 to 20 mons) or if there is the addition of another adult as an assistant. Our analyst agreed with our proposal and even gave suggestions for possibly having the law changed.

I am trying to make time in my busy schedule to research how this needs to be written and submitted this year so that it can possibly be reviewed during the calendar year that the legislature is in session.

I am sure when we get this ball rolling we will be asking for support from our fellow colleagues and possibly get the rule amended.

[Hunni Bee]

First of all- thank you very much for your quick responses!

I must admit that, like some of you above said, I was a little bit trolling by calling this particular rule "dumb". You did educate me about child safety, so I definitely will respect this rule from now on.

Also, my wife has always been respecting all child care rules, including this one, because it's her dream to run a daycare.
The reason I asked this particular question is because she has been getting calls from parents of infants every week, and she already has a long waiting list. However, in the 6 months that she is open, not a single parent of a toddler showed any interest in her daycare.
That fact had frustrated me (but again not my beautiful smart wife), so that's why I asked the question the way I did.
[Plus, I was a bit too "emotional" after the Super Bowl.]

So the bottom line is this: I sincerely apologize for the way I asked my question, but I also thank you for your quick and insightful responses from the bottom of my heart!

Thanks for clarifying! We are generally a helpful bunch, but more so when we know you're not a troll!

[Play Care]

Everything posted is right! The addition of an extra client is not worth the violation you would have attached to your license.

However, although I don't necessarily think its a dumb rule, it is hard considering the fact that most of the larger preschools are now accepting children as young as 2 yrs. This makes it difficult for FCC's because consequently the majority of the calls we get are for infants. Over the years I have turned away so many potential clients because of a ratio issue. Its really frustrating to see a need for the services you offer and not be able to accommodate. Especially if you need clients.

A colleague of mine and I are planning to write to our legislative representatives in Ca to see if we can have the law possibly changed. We both approached our analyst about possibly having the rule amended if perhaps there is an older infant (say 18 to 20 mons) or if there is the addition of another adult as an assistant. Our analyst agreed with our proposal and even gave suggestions for possibly having the law changed.

I am trying to make time in my busy schedule to research how this needs to be written and submitted this year so that it can possibly be reviewed during the calendar year that the legislature is in session.

I am sure when we get this ball rolling we will be asking for support from our fellow colleagues and possibly get the rule amended.

THIS is the way to go about ithappyface

[Sergio]

A colleague of mine and I are planning to write to our legislative representatives in Ca to see if we can have the law possibly changed. We both approached our analyst about possibly having the rule amended if perhaps there is an older infant (say 18 to 20 mons) or if there is the addition of another adult as an assistant. Our analyst agreed with our proposal and even gave suggestions for possibly having the law changed.

I am trying to make time in my busy schedule to research how this needs to be written and submitted this year so that it can possibly be reviewed during the calendar year that the legislature is in session.

I am sure when we get this ball rolling we will be asking for support from our fellow colleagues and possibly get the rule amended.

I would love to sign a petition (of sorts) that would redefine an "infant" as a child who can't walk. If the child can walk, regardless of their age, I believe that they should be viewed as a toddler.

[Annalee]

In Tennessee, providers can only have 4 children under 24 months whether Group (12) or Family (7). Sometimes I do wish the ages were 16-18 months and under because 24 months and under is a broad range.

[MarinaVanessa]

I personally think that the following rule is rather dumb (taken verbatim from https://daycare.com/california/)=>




But what happens, if my wife actually breaks this rule? For example, what happens if they catch my wife caring for 6 infants?

I'm going to go back to the question "What happens if my wife breaks this rule?" (I'm in CA)

So licensing shows up unannounced and your wife is "out of ratio" (doesn't matter if by one child or by more). The analyst will issue a citation for a Class A Violation (the worst kind to get) and will include the violation in the visit report.

Best case scenario:
(no other violations found)
Your wife will immediately be required to contact some of the parents and have children picked up and taken home until she is within ratio.
The analyst will notify the parents that she is in violation of legal ratios and that she has been issued a class A violation and that they will have to find alternative child care.
The analyst will explain the regulation to your wife and warn her that she must always comply with the state's regulations.
A "Facility Evaluation Report" will be typed up during the same visit which will include her deficiencies and a plan of correction. Your wife will be required to sign the report agreeing to follow all regulations and will immediately be given a printed copy. This report must be posted for a minimum of 30 days (sometimes more, could be up to 1 year or more)
Your wife will also be given a "Notice of Site Visit" which will indicate that she received a violation. She will be required to post the notice for a minimum of 30 days.
Your wife will be required to give all remaining clients a copy of the "Facility Evaluation Report" and sign a form that says that they have received and read a copy. This form must be kept in the child's file at all times.
Any new clients that your wife enrolls within the required time frame will need to be given a copy of the "Facility Evaluation Report" as well and must also sign a form.
The class A violation will be in your wife's licensing file forever and available for the public for up to 2 years minimum (if potential clients call licensing to review her file they will have access to be told about it or to be provided a copy of it even if your wife's violation has been taken care of already and her required "notification" time has already gone by.

Worst case scenario, everything above and/or:
She could be issued a citation which she will have to pay. It could be just one citation or she can be given a citation per day that she operated out of ratio depending on the severity of the violation, whether she has other violations and at the discretion of her analyst/regional manager/district manager/director etc.
She receives the citation amount in the mail and will have a certain amount of time to pay it or her licence can be suspended and/or revoked if not paid on time.
If she has other violations (serious or not) she could be put on probation or have her license suspended/revoked at that time or at a later time (usually within a week or two). She could always fight a suspension or revocation but the process goes through the Administrative Courts (this is a real hearing in front of a real judge), you'll want to hire an attorney.
If she is put on probation she must not get ANY other violation during her probation period (usually 12 months, could be more or less) or she will have her licence revoked. Even after she serves her probation period she might be required to not get another violation within another 12 months or she can be put back on probation.

In other words ... it's a big deal. Any class A violation is but certain ones are huge in licensing's eyes especially any of the ones that have to with safety. These are considered personal rights violations and licensing takes the stance that every child has a right to a safe environment and violating safety regulations are a provider directly violating that child's right. Hope this helps.

[NillaWafers]

I would love to sign a petition (of sorts) that would redefine an "infant" as a child who can't walk. If the child can walk, regardless of their age, I believe that they should be viewed as a toddler.

Totally. I am in CA, I do think what qualifies as an infant is silly, but I would never go over ratios. I have my own infant and I won't take another until he can walk and participate with the others. I hope amending the law happens!

[Unregistered]

All of the above.
Plus this:
OFTEN when tragedies occur in fcc it is discovered that the provider is out of ratio.

[MunchkinWrangler]

LOL, sorry! I think most ratios are 'almost' the same depending on your license class. In MN, we're not allowed more that 3 children under 2 and no more than 2 can be infants(under 12 months), this is with an A license. You can get a different license class but must have a good standing while under an A license. Once you get into higher infant/toddler ratios in family child care, you need to have 2 adults. There is an infant/toddler specialty license class but you ratio is way lower, meaning you can't have very many total children and aren't allowed to take older children, I don't remember the exact details.

[MunchkinWrangler]

Oh, and think about it, most older toddlers and preschool age children are already established in childcare. Most of the time if I get someone looking for this age group, it's because the nanny left or something that was out of the parents control which is forcing them to seek out childcare. Families with infants are just starting out.