Pre K

[nannyde]

calendar looks much like you describe. parents know it up front

So you can see from a home providers viewpoint that what you get per child per hour is a large portion if not all of what a home provider gets for 2/3 or all of a full ten hour day five days a week?

See why adding expectations of adding education to care for very close to the same amount of dollars total just doesn't work?

It won't work in a Center where they are making four dollars an hour per kid. It won't work in a home day care where they are making three or less per hour.

So do you do breakfast or lunch or just a mid session snack?

[QualiTcare]

nannyde,

i spent a lot of time in head start when i was in school, and i used to say, "all these kids do is eat."

that's all there was time for it seemed like.

but the reality was that for most of those kids, the meals they got there were the only REAL meals they would get at all. so it really was important. forget about teaching them how to write their name or learn the calendar. they had to learn how to sit down, not throw tantrums, not whack somebody in the face for no reason, how to pull up their own pants, how to wash their hands, etc. you know how honest kids are. you could ask, "how many of you brushed your teeth this morning?" NOT ME! my mommy won't let me! i didn't! head start helps pay for dental care, eye glasses, etc. thank god for it really. a kid who's in pain bc their teeth are rotten or they're hungry or they can't see isn't going to care about the alphabet when they get to kindergarten. yes, these are all things these kids COULD learn in daycare, but their parents often don't work so they can't get daycare paid for. even if they did, half of the kids would get kicked out. not to mention - daycare doesn't have a social worker or a speech therapist, etc.

then i spent some time with probably the best teacher i've ever seen. it was in a pre-k class funded by the school system. i watched everything she did and tried to do a lot of what she did when i taught because whatever she did WORKED. there was not one minute that they were not learning something. i was amazed. i had been in kindergarten classrooms (lots of them) where the kids didn't know as much as her pre-k kids did. and these pre-k kids were kids that scored the very lowest on the entry test who were doing better than K kids who weren't picked through. one reason this teacher did such a great job and was more effective than any other preschool i'd seen (private and head start) is because she was getting PAID well enough to want to, and she was held to a higher standard by the state. she had to show progress and believe me she did.

so, what's the difference between a pre-k teacher who merely supervises and
one who utilizes their time to teach? i'd say about a 20-30,000 dollar difference. ::

have you seen preschool teacher's salaries at head start and private programs? i'm not talking about OWNERS, but teachers. of course, they don't HAVE to have as much education (some of them might) but regardless, they get paid maybe 15-25,000 dollars. it's no different than the childcare provider who "doesn't get paid enough to feed an extra meal." the pre-k teachers don't get paid enough to facilitate a kickball game or talk to a kid while pushing them on a swing. they only get paid enough to stand around and talk.

quality always costs more money. i can use Xtra laundry detergent and the clothes will make it through the wash, but i can use GAIN and spend a few more bucks and they'll come out smelling awesome. instead of paying a lot and seeing no change, i'd rather pay a little more and see a huge difference. same concept.

[QualiTcare]

My issue is small potatoes compared to the larger issue. Yes, as a preschool owner, I am losing business. But I will survive.

https://www.daycare.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

It's no crime to be a business owner and hope to do well. Regardless, as a taxpayer, I also have a problem with "universal" preschool. 80% of children in the nation currently go to preschool. If we need to expand the parameters to allow more children the opportunity, fine. I have a problem with programs that shuffle children from the private sector and put the cost on the taxpayer, especially when those families can well afford to pay for it. This is not good policy for our already suffering economy. By doing this, you are forcing small business to close their door, decreasing tax revenue, increasing unemployment and raising our taxes.

Districts in our area are doing more than cutting sports. They are cutting full day Kindergarten at the same time they have a $1.6 million dollar UPK program running. In my opinion, that just doesn't make sense.

Use our money wisely and restore cuts to K-12 and prioritize pre-k money to those most in need.

i didn't say it was a crime. it was just an obvious fact/motivator that hadn't been mentioned.

you said, "I have a problem with programs that shuffle children from the private sector and put the cost on the taxpayer, especially when those families can well afford to pay for it."

i asked before, what's the difference between the k-12 students who can well afford to pay for private school, but they're going to public school?

the fact is there is a ton of money being spent and the results aren't showing the money is worth it. so, why pay MORE money? well, would you spend 100 bucks on a TV that didn't work, or 120 bucks on one that worked like a charm? who are these "teachers" in the private sector held accountable to? who is monitoring the children's progress?

i can see saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," but it IS "broke."

it does make sense to cut FULL day kindergarten classes to keep pre-k because MORE CHILDREN get served that way. 100 kids get to go to school and stay half a day instead of 50 children going and staying all day and the other 50 staying at home wishing they could go to school. makes sense to me.

[kendallina]

Yes, quality does cost. The state funded program that I worked at in California I had up to 96 children- 24 children per classroom. The center received around $20 per child per day. We only got paid on days children were actually there. We operated 5 days a week. We had to pay 6-7 teachers (mostly full-time), a director's salary, and a cook's salary. We paid benefits for employees, materials, building costs, everything.

We ALWAYS had plenty of supplies- had a budget of $650/month on just preschool activity supplies.

We were able to pay our teachers/director well. I had a few teachers with bachelor's degrees, and the experienced and really good ones made around $19/hour. Teachers with associates degrees would typically make around $12 starting out. Assistant teachers would often start around $11, and we never paid lower than that (yes, that's not a lot of money, but they were assistants and in a learning position, often still in school).

I don't think $20/day per child is too much to ask for really good quality programming. Plus we often had a surplus at the end of the month, sometimes just a couple thousand dollars on months with many holidays (Nov/Dec) to over $10,000 on those months with lots of school days.

[Blackcat31]

I worked in Head Start for 5 years. I agree that it is a program to help low income children learn things they do not get at home, like QualiT said, sit still eat a nutrious meal (only one that day) and play with kids in an environment that doesn't have peeling paint and unsafe conditions. I quit working in the center I worked in because I wanted more control over the kids' environment and the things they got to do and say rather than have to follow the whole mentality of making sure our grant money was spent every year in full so we could get more the next year. I am NOT saying all Head Start is the way it is here but these are a few of the things I was po'ed about....

1. My starting wage was outrageously high (I was a past Head Start parent with NO education beyond high school.) They paid for me to earn my CDA and get all necessary trainings. I was NOT qualified for the job they gave me. My official title: Assistant Teacher/Home Visitor

2. I was told to replenish my Home Visit supplies every year from Lakeshore Learning or Kaplan where a Candyland game was $14.99 versus $4 at Wal-mart. I was reprimanded twice for trying to buy supplies at cheaper stores.

3. Our lead teacher had a 2 yr AA degree and was so scatterbrained she had her electricity turned off regularly, spent time in detox on certain holidays or long wekends and took Prozac openly in class as needed. Yes, she is still employed there 23 years and running....

4. On Fridays, the Assistant Teachers and Lead Teacher as well as the Family Center Coordinator got catered meals to sit and "Plan" for next week...which meant gossiping about how Timmy's mom was sleeping with Joey's dad and Billy's dad went to jail AGAIN but not to worry because we talked about all the kids equally and their situations as if it were a taping of The Maury Povich show.....

5. When our 2nd Assistant Teacher quit to take the managers position at the liquor store we didn't go without for long because Hey! The Bus rider volunteer person needed a job that paid better and had better hours and since we were cutting transportation the next year we hired her and trained her with a CDA and all the good stuff...gave her a title and we were set for the next year.

6. During meetings we were told to make sure we tell all the familes about such and such programs so they can get free help (i.e. if they get a job, we lose a kid which means we lose $$$$'s so don't encourage any of these families to work or get jobs) I was also told in these EXACT words "Treat all families as if they have no more than an 8th grade education" Like just because they were poor, they were dumb too?!?! How sad! We were encouraging families to stay on welfare...I never got that.

I know not all Head Starts are not this way but I also live in an area where 85% of childen are low income and living in poverty so I do not understand why it is allowed to be run the way it is...these kids need the basics and the teachers are getting paid a fortune to do nothing but what I am now providing at childcare. Basic necessities. I am a believer still in the positives of early education but I can see where Nannyde is coming from when she says the only kids who seem to benefit from it are the low income kids.....I think Head Start has made me a bit of a skeptic but if kids who have their basic needs met are given early childhood education it can be helpful and good. I just had a gripe about government run Head Starts. I do think Head Start is money based...more kids in need=more government dollars! I see it in the number of parents I have on public assitance now. One mom in particular has been in my childcare since her oldest was 2 (he is 16 now) and she is still on the welfare system and has had 3 more kids with two more dads. She has gotten no job, no education and no encouragement to get off her butt yet I watch her child every day at no cost to her (well, her co-pay is $10 per month) and she goes ??? I dunno where or what she does...but she drops off everyday without missing a single day in a really long time. I know she isn't going to work and she isn't going to school so why is she still allowed to be on state assistance?.....I will forever be confused by government programs that help families because in my honest opinion they enable, NOT assist.

[prioritizepre-k]

i didn't say it was a crime. it was just an obvious fact/motivator that hadn't been mentioned.

you said, "I have a problem with programs that shuffle children from the private sector and put the cost on the taxpayer, especially when those families can well afford to pay for it."

i asked before, what's the difference between the k-12 students who can well afford to pay for private school, but they're going to public school?

the fact is there is a ton of money being spent and the results aren't showing the money is worth it. so, why pay MORE money? well, would you spend 100 bucks on a TV that didn't work, or 120 bucks on one that worked like a charm? who are these "teachers" in the private sector held accountable to? who is monitoring the children's progress?

i can see saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," but it IS "broke."

it does make sense to cut FULL day kindergarten classes to keep pre-k because MORE CHILDREN get served that way. 100 kids get to go to school and stay half a day instead of 50 children going and staying all day and the other 50 staying at home wishing they could go to school. makes sense to me.

guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[Unregistered]

There are more benifets than some people realize

I focus on preschool because I am the owner of a preschool. I do believe preschool is beneficial. I do not believe the government are the only one's who can do it well. With that said, yes i believe parents can teach their children the basics too. The only thing homeschooling won't accomplish is all of the social benefits the children receive by being in a classroom with a few of their peers. Taking turns, sharing, not taking too much of the teachers attention. etc. These are important skills they will need as they enter a Kindergarten classroom with 20+ kids.
www.prioritizepre-k.com

Another benefit of preschool (If the Provider/Preschool Teacher are trained in child observation) is that a provider/teacher may know some warning signs of learning disabilities/delays or social problems that parents may not be able to pick up themselves due to either thinking this behavior is typical (because they may not understand development) or not having a diverse enough social environment to measure these domains. Early detection can help parents to get resorces to early childhood intervention to help them get the support they need before they enter the school systems- which may make them be held back if not treated early.