Few Questions and Concerns About DCK

[spedmommy4]

ONLY if the parents are on board. I recently read a study that concluded that troubled behaviors have nothing to do with caregivers/daycare and have everything to do with parents. The study was conducted to find out why children who attend daycare have more troubled behavior than kids who don't. When they controlled for time spent in daycare vs not in daycare they found that troubled behavior persisted with or without daycare influence. Hopefully that makes sense as I am paraphrasing. My own anecdotal evidence points to this as well. Parents who put their kids in daycare seem to think they forfeit all responsibility to the caregiver and make it up to them to discipline etc. They see their kids 3-4 hours a day if that and a lot of that time is spent making supper and putting to bed so discipline becomes time in front of the tv or ipad.

Parents are the #1 influence on kids and when you give advice time and time again with no cooperation from parents it gets old.

I absolutely agree with you. But- it is really hard for teachers/providers to tell parents that their little darlings are actually tiny little terrors.

Where I live a lot of people know my professional background. This year, I had a teacher with the school district trying to relay behavior concerns about a child through me. I wish I could say it was the first time.

I coached (center) teachers in Oregon and I work with providers here in my city and the pattern I typically see is: the teacher tries to handle it on their own, they reach out for help from more knowledgeable people, they talk to the parents nicely, and the child is then kicked out. The piece that is usually missing is directness and collaboration.

It's hard to be direct with parent. You don't want to lose clients. You don't want to look bad at your job, etc. But, parents ARE their kids first teacher. I can only support what they are teaching at home.

In the past year, I have termed only 1 child. And it was the child of a family that stubbornly refused to collaborate to work on or even acknowledge serious behavior issues.

When it comes to behaviors that put a child's preschool or childcare placement is in jeopardy, the parent should be alerted to the need for collaboration when the teacher/provider is initially frustrated with a problem behavior. By the time most have been dealing with it long enough to want to reach out to the parents help, they're usually ready to terminate care no matter what.

[childcaremom]

I absolutely agree with you. But- it is really hard for teachers/providers to tell parents that their little darlings are actually tiny little terrors.

When it comes to behaviors that put a child's preschool or childcare placement is in jeopardy, the parent should be alerted to the need for collaboration when the teacher/provider is initially frustrated with a problem behavior. By the time most have been dealing with it long enough to want to reach out to the parents help, they're usually ready to terminate care no matter what.

Absolutely.

I think the key is to recognize the behaviour early, mention it to the parent, and inform the parents where this is ultimately going to head if there is not improvement. I really like how you worded it: behaviours that put your child's daycare placement in jeopardy.

I will work with dcps who are willing to put in the work but I will also put a time limit on when I expect to see improvements. If there are no improvements, or not enough, I will term.

I think the key, as a provider, is to know what behaviours you are willing and able to work with, and those that you aren't. I do discuss this area with parents during the interview process and will bring up problem behaviours to parents when/if they occur. Some I will work with, some behaviours I won't.

As far as OPs situation...

They wouldn't have to participate in circle but they would have to sit quietly. I would hand them their shoes and be done with it. Same with the water bottle. Not responding to my disciplining techniques: chatting with parents. Depending on how that chat went would depend on whether or not the children would continue in my program. Either parents were onboard on helping to correct the behaviour or this family is not a good fit for my program.

[childcaremom]

I'd send them home for bad behavior.

I realized a long time ago that I am a self employed child care provider. I offer lots of things within my program but the one thing I will not do is "fix" or deal with bad behavior from kids that is usually due to bad parenting styles, rules etc....

It's not fair for me nor is it fair to the other kids in care to have to deal day in and day out with a frustrated provider that spends all her time corralling one or two kids back into line that are plenty old enough to know better.

I'm tired of people thinking child care providers have to deal with this type of thing or that we have to fix it or teach the children better.

Nope. I'd send them home. It's probably totally giving in and giving them what they (the kids) want but again why is that the provider's issue??

Why does she HAVE to fix it? Why does she have to be the one that deals with someone else's poor parenting? Where in the job description does it even say she is qualified or obligated to "parent" someone else's child. Why does the provider have to even worry about if it sends the wrong message to the badly behaving children in the first place? That should be the parents job to worry about.

I'd send them home. Every.single.time. Because the only thing I would want them to learn is that I will NOT tolerate that type behavior in my home/program.

I do not care if it teaches the child that he gets what he wants because basically I got what I want.
A safe secure environment that is stress free for the OTHER kids.

The kids that do behave and often times get overshadowed by all the hoopla that a provider has to devote to directing and redirecting kids that are naughty and I find that alarming in today's society.

I will say, I do think there are times in which the provider does need to work with parents in helping a child grow and over come obstacles in their paths but the difference between those situations and those in which kids are just outright naughty is parental involvement.

If parents are truly doing their part, I can support and encourage their efforts but when kids are just out right naughty or spoiled or out of control because of parenting style, then I'm out. I won't fix that kind of issue.

Yes.



I can help in certain situations but I can't, and won't, parent someone else's child.

[Blackcat31]

But- it is really hard for teachers/providers to tell parents that their little darlings are actually tiny little terrors.

....which in turn leads us right back to my original statement.

Send them home every.single.time then.

If you (as a provider ~ general provider) don't, can't or won't tell the parent what you see, manage and deal with everyday in regards to the child then you have an obligation to send them home then.

I do not believe it's fair to the kids that do NOT cause disruptions and issues throughout the day to have to continually deal with those that do as well as deal with a provider or caregiver that is overly stressed out because of a badly behaving child.

If you can't tell the parents in a way to make them understand or listen....
If you can't find a resolution within your daily routine....
If you can't manage a child or their behaviors.....

then send them home.

As caregivers, we are always quick to offer empathy and sometimes sympathy to those situations where one child's out of control behavior is an issue and we are quick to excuse our acceptance of a negative situation so we don't short our budgets or weekly incomes but we are slow to recognize the impact it this has on the other children and families in care.....and that is alarming to me for many reasons.

[daycarediva]

BC I could NOT agree more. I term to the point my husband jokes about it now. If a parent is not on board, I am not on board.

At this young of an age, it is ALWAYS the parents fault. ALWAYS. I am SICK of hearing them blame age, not sleeping well, teething, previous childcare and other children for their little one's issues.

I sent a child home today for hitting. She's 3. The first time she was separated, the next time she ran out of her space to hit and attempted to run back, I called her mom. That was unwarranted, unprovoked aggression from a child. I am thinking of the other 5 children in care. I will NOT allow them to be treated that way. Parents and I have a conference this evening. IF this behavior continues, they will be let go.

[Unregistered]

I was told the opposite on this forum months ago. Hat sending dck home would not help it would just let the dck get what he/she wanted. I did send home, twice, for screaming and yelling in TO for over an hour. Then the dcp said "it seems like you don't want to watch dck anymore"

[Thriftylady]

I was told the opposite on this forum months ago. Hat sending dck home would not help it would just let the dck get what he/she wanted. I did send home, twice, for screaming and yelling in TO for over an hour. Then the dcp said "it seems like you don't want to watch dck anymore"

I think that to a point it depends on the situation. But as others have said, if the parent isn't trying to help with the behavior, I am beating my head against a wall. As providers, we can't do our jobs if parents don't do theirs.

[Ariana]

My post was directed at the person who said we have a responsibility to help parents. I know its hard to tell parents their kids are out of control! I give advice when asked but at the end of the day I am not entering into a codependent relationship with a business client. I am not going to be abused because I provide a service.

I agree with BlackCat. Other children in my care are important and my own child is #1. I once termed for excessive tantrumming. The dad made a backhanded comment like "yeah you just don't want to have to deal with it" and I replied that this isn't about me. It's about ALL the kids in my care (My own child would start crying when this kid would tantrum because she was frightened which made ignoring the tantrum impossible.) My child didn't sign up for this. Meanwhile his wife was at home on maternity leave...and he is giving me attitude? Who does he think is responsible for this child? Just because you pay me doesn't mean I have to bow down to whatever you throw at me.

I always try and find a solution by implementing my rules at my house. 99% of the time it works. Sometimes I give parents advice and most of the time they don't take it. Thats fine as long as it isn't impacting me and my business.

[lilmonkeys]

no they werent. they were very quiet and actually didn't talk the whole time.

[lilmonkeys]

that's my concern. I have talked to the mom and dad about 3 or 4 times regarding the issues and concerns and she pretty much shrugs it off. and tells me that a lot of it might be her fault bc she does everything for them both at home. if they need something opened she does it. she dresses them both no matter ehat. puts their shoes on. and according to the 5 year old he said at home he sits and plays on his ps4 and plays mine craft all day.
I am all for teaching kids how to use manners, be respectful etc. but if the parents aren't helping them I am basically spinning my wheels.

[lilmonkeys]

It sounds like maybe this behavior works at home. Have you talked to the parents? You need to try to get them to help you solve it. Also, put in some natural consequences. They refuse to put on shoes? That's fine they have to sit on the porch during outside time. She doesn't want to open her water bottle? She can wait until you get around to it OR she decides to do it herself. They don't want to eat? Fine I would put less of each thing on the plate. They can eat it or be hungry till they go home. If they are holding out for snack, that is fine as long as you are serving healthy snack such as veggie sticks with dip and such. They won't sit down for circle time? That is fine but they are choosing to lay down for a nap then. The running from me screaming? I would tell parents that I will ask them one time to come back and quiet down and if they don't I will be calling for pick up.

If it wasn't working, they wouldn't be doing this. By telling parents you will be calling for pick up when they disturb the group the parents may think you are bluffing, until you do it once.

the mom says that the behavior doesn't happen at home. but then also says she does everything for them no matter what. the oldest is 5 and the other just turned 4. she still wipes the oldest ones behind when he goes to the bathroom....so the parents are huge enablers. but it's difficult to continue to watch them when the parents are helping on their part at home. I have explained to the mom what I work on with the kids at my daycare. manners, please, thank you, not interrupting, respecting other people boundaries, inside voices, and learning to do basic things....like putting on shoes, opening your own water bottle...which at their age they should know how to do both already. I have 3 kids of my own...ages 11, 7 and 5. and they all knew at young ages how to dress themselves, shoes, and basically be self sufficient.