Few Questions and Concerns About DCK

[lilmonkeys]

I have 2 new daycare kids. they are siblings, ages 3 and 5. Neither of them know what arts and crafts are or when I say it's time to do circle time they tell me it's boring and there not going to do it. when I coach them on sitting with the group they will run away from me. they don't k ow how to talk very well at all. out of a whole day I understand maybe 10 to 15 words they say. they waste every bit of food I give them and then tell me that maybe they wouldn't waste the food if I cooked food they liked...of course I have to piece together that sentence. they demand me to do things for them. they don't use any form of manners at all! they don't know how to put shoes on at all. if I shoe them on one shoe and have them do the other they just say they don't know how and will throw the shoe down and cry. I finally put them on and then they say they don't know how to velcrow the shoes......they all have designated water bottles, the 3 year old says she doesn't know how to open it and just a it's there waiting for me to do it for her. I try to teach her by showing her then having her do it and she refuses. she slams it on the counter and walks off pouting. if they do something wrong and have to go to time out. they run from me and scream for ever at the top of their lungs which as you know can be distracting to the others.
any suggestions. they have been coming here for about 4 weeks now.

[Thriftylady]

I have 2 new daycare kids. they are siblings, ages 3 and 5. Neither of them know what arts and crafts are or when I say it's time to do circle time they tell me it's boring and there not going to do it. when I coach them on sitting with the group they will run away from me. they don't k ow how to talk very well at all. out of a whole day I understand maybe 10 to 15 words they say. they waste every bit of food I give them and then tell me that maybe they wouldn't waste the food if I cooked food they liked...of course I have to piece together that sentence. they demand me to do things for them. they don't use any form of manners at all! they don't know how to put shoes on at all. if I shoe them on one shoe and have them do the other they just say they don't know how and will throw the shoe down and cry. I finally put them on and then they say they don't know how to velcrow the shoes......they all have designated water bottles, the 3 year old says she doesn't know how to open it and just a it's there waiting for me to do it for her. I try to teach her by showing her then having her do it and she refuses. she slams it on the counter and walks off pouting. if they do something wrong and have to go to time out. they run from me and scream for ever at the top of their lungs which as you know can be distracting to the others.
any suggestions. they have been coming here for about 4 weeks now.

It sounds like maybe this behavior works at home. Have you talked to the parents? You need to try to get them to help you solve it. Also, put in some natural consequences. They refuse to put on shoes? That's fine they have to sit on the porch during outside time. She doesn't want to open her water bottle? She can wait until you get around to it OR she decides to do it herself. They don't want to eat? Fine I would put less of each thing on the plate. They can eat it or be hungry till they go home. If they are holding out for snack, that is fine as long as you are serving healthy snack such as veggie sticks with dip and such. They won't sit down for circle time? That is fine but they are choosing to lay down for a nap then. The running from me screaming? I would tell parents that I will ask them one time to come back and quiet down and if they don't I will be calling for pick up.

If it wasn't working, they wouldn't be doing this. By telling parents you will be calling for pick up when they disturb the group the parents may think you are bluffing, until you do it once.

[Ariana]

It is basically just time to introduce YOUR rules and some very much needed consequences. If you don't put your shoes on you don't go outside or you go outside without shoes and sit on a chair. If you don't open your water bottle you don't get water...etc basically the same as the others have said.

They will eventually get it. I would also reiterate with the parents the skills you are working on at daycare to drive the point home that this is what is expected of them. for example recently I told parents that we are working on holding cups, using utensils, sitting properly at the table...I have 2 two year olds who are quite helpless. Tell them the skills you are working on with them and see what they say.

[MunchkinWrangler]

I would just be really consistent every single day. Eventually, they will get it and even learn something new!
Sadly, this is what they've been taught/experienced and probably know no other way. This is your chance to have an impact on their lives. Honestly! Teachable moments happen everyday.
As frustrating as it is, I wouldn't mention it to the parents, as it's apparent that these things or lack of things they already know. Maybe what you teach them will have a strong example on them growing up! :hug:

[MunchkinWrangler]

It is basically just time to introduce YOUR rules and some very much needed consequences. If you don't put your shoes on you don't go outside or you go outside without shoes and sit on a chair. If you don't open your water bottle you don't get water...etc basically the same as the others have said.

They will eventually get it. I would also reiterate with the parents the skills you are working on at daycare to drive the point home that this is what is expected of them. for example recently I told parents that we are working on holding cups, using utensils, sitting properly at the table...I have 2 two year olds who are quite helpless. Tell them the skills you are working on with them and see what they say.

[Josiegirl]

Have they ever been in care outside of their home before? Were they kicked out of anywhere for behavior issues? Would it be possible for you to do an evaluation on each of them to share with the dcps? Do the parents have any clue about their level of speech or does it appear normal to them?

I cannot offer more than what has already been said but wow, that has got to be frustrating and time consuming.

[Josiegirl]

The only suggestion I'd be on the fence about is calling for pick-up if they went running and screaming from you. I think that could backfire, allowing the kids what they probably want anyways plus I'm thinking they'd find new dc.
JMO
I almost understand a 3 yo acting this way, somewhat, but it sounds as if the 5 yo has not been exposed to any good teaching tools.

[spedmommy4]

The only suggestion I'd be on the fence about is calling for pick-up if they went running and screaming from you. I think that could backfire, allowing the kids what they probably want anyways plus I'm thinking they'd find new dc.
JMO
I almost understand a 3 yo acting this way, somewhat, but it sounds as if the 5 yo has not been exposed to any good teaching tools.

I'm with you on this. I worked with a provider friend here locally recently who was dealing with some really challenging behavior. An honest conversation with the dcm revealed that the previous provider had been sending the child home for misbehavior. When he switched to my friend, he kept "upping the ante" to get her to send him home.

It's so important to figure out the "why" of a behavior. Without the why, it's hard to give practical solutions. Are they acting out because they don't know the expectations? Because there are learning delays? Because there haven't been any rules enforced anywhere before? A little bit of each? An honest conversation with dcm will help you choose the right strategies going forward. I would ask about previous childcare experience, if there are any similar behavior concerns at home, and what skills they demonstrate at home.

[Thriftylady]

The only suggestion I'd be on the fence about is calling for pick-up if they went running and screaming from you. I think that could backfire, allowing the kids what they probably want anyways plus I'm thinking they'd find new dc.
JMO
I almost understand a 3 yo acting this way, somewhat, but it sounds as if the 5 yo has not been exposed to any good teaching tools.

My suggestion of course was meant if it is truly out of the norm for a child of the age. I am assuming the OP wouldn't be posting these things if they were not major. I am also assuming due to the post that the "I can't do anything" and the other behaviors are happening because they actually work at home. Which is why I would talk to the parents about the situation as a whole first.

[Blackcat31]

I'd send them home for bad behavior.

I realized a long time ago that I am a self employed child care provider. I offer lots of things within my program but the one thing I will not do is "fix" or deal with bad behavior from kids that is usually due to bad parenting styles, rules etc....

It's not fair for me nor is it fair to the other kids in care to have to deal day in and day out with a frustrated provider that spends all her time corralling one or two kids back into line that are plenty old enough to know better.

I'm tired of people thinking child care providers have to deal with this type of thing or that we have to fix it or teach the children better.

Nope. I'd send them home. It's probably totally giving in and giving them what they (the kids) want but again why is that the provider's issue??

Why does she HAVE to fix it? Why does she have to be the one that deals with someone else's poor parenting? Where in the job description does it even say she is qualified or obligated to "parent" someone else's child. Why does the provider have to even worry about if it sends the wrong message to the badly behaving children in the first place? That should be the parents job to worry about.

I'd send them home. Every.single.time. Because the only thing I would want them to learn is that I will NOT tolerate that type behavior in my home/program.

I do not care if it teaches the child that he gets what he wants because basically I got what I want.
A safe secure environment that is stress free for the OTHER kids.

The kids that do behave and often times get overshadowed by all the hoopla that a provider has to devote to directing and redirecting kids that are naughty and I find that alarming in today's society.

I will say, I do think there are times in which the provider does need to work with parents in helping a child grow and over come obstacles in their paths but the difference between those situations and those in which kids are just outright naughty is parental involvement.

If parents are truly doing their part, I can support and encourage their efforts but when kids are just out right naughty or spoiled or out of control because of parenting style, then I'm out. I won't fix that kind of issue.

[Thriftylady]

I'd send them home for bad behavior.

I realized a long time ago that I am a self employed child care provider. I offer lots of things within my program but the one thing I will not do is "fix" or deal with bad behavior from kids that is usually due to bad parenting styles, rules etc....

It's not fair for me nor is it fair to the other kids in care to have to deal day in and day out with a frustrated provider that spends all her time corralling one or two kids back into line that are plenty old enough to know better.

I'm tired of people thinking child care providers have to deal with this type of thing or that we have to fix it or teach the children better.

Nope. I'd send them home. It's probably totally giving in and giving them what they (the kids) want but again why is that the provider's issue??

Why does she HAVE to fix it? Why does she have to be the one that deals with someone else's poor parenting? Where in the job description does it even say she is qualified or obligated to "parent" someone else's child. Why does the provider have to even worry about if it sends the wrong message to the badly behaving children in the first place? That should be the parents job to worry about.

I'd send them home. Every.single.time. Because the only thing I would want them to learn is that I will NOT tolerate that type behavior in my home/program.

I do not care if it teaches the child that he gets what he wants because basically I got what I want.
A safe secure environment that is stress free for the OTHER kids.

The kids that do behave and often times get overshadowed by all the hoopla that a provider has to devote to directing and redirecting kids that are naughty and I find that alarming in today's society.

I will say, I do think there are times in which the provider does need to work with parents in helping a child grow and over come obstacles in their paths but the difference between those situations and those in which kids are just outright naughty is parental involvement.

If parents are truly doing their part, I can support and encourage their efforts but when kids are just out right naughty or spoiled or out of control because of parenting style, then I'm out. I won't fix that kind of issue.

This is exactly how I feel.

[Snowmom]

Question: Were they like this during the interview process?

[spedmommy4]

I'd send them home for bad behavior.

I realized a long time ago that I am a self employed child care provider. I offer lots of things within my program but the one thing I will not do is "fix" or deal with bad behavior from kids that is usually due to bad parenting styles, rules etc....

It's not fair for me nor is it fair to the other kids in care to have to deal day in and day out with a frustrated provider that spends all her time corralling one or two kids back into line that are plenty old enough to know better.

I'm tired of people thinking child care providers have to deal with this type of thing or that we have to fix it or teach the children better.

Nope. I'd send them home. It's probably totally giving in and giving them what they (the kids) want but again why is that the provider's issue??

Why does she HAVE to fix it? Why does she have to be the one that deals with someone else's poor parenting? Where in the job description does it even say she is qualified or obligated to "parent" someone else's child. Why does the provider have to even worry about if it sends the wrong message to the badly behaving children in the first place? That should be the parents job to worry about.

I'd send them home. Every.single.time. Because the only thing I would want them to learn is that I will NOT tolerate that type behavior in my home/program.

I do not care if it teaches the child that he gets what he wants because basically I got what I want.
A safe secure environment that is stress free for the OTHER kids.

The kids that do behave and often times get overshadowed by all the hoopla that a provider has to devote to directing and redirecting kids that are naughty and I find that alarming in today's society.

I will say, I do think there are times in which the provider does need to work with parents in helping a child grow and over come obstacles in their paths but the difference between those situations and those in which kids are just outright naughty is parental involvement.

If parents are truly doing their part, I can support and encourage their efforts but when kids are just out right naughty or spoiled or out of control because of parenting style, then I'm out. I won't fix that kind of issue.

I recently attended a training where the speaker talked about a study he had conducted on kids with extreme behaviors. He talked about how every single child in a study he had conducted had behaviors that could be traced all the way back to the early childhood years. He also discussed being alarmed by the notes written in files. Teachers wrote things in the file such as, "Concerns about hitting but the child will outgrow it." The parent never learned how to handle it and the child was passed on to the next teacher year after year.

And then one day that child's behaviors became alarming. One day those behaviors turned from annoying frustrations into bullying that affected other kids. And at that point, it also ended up affecting parents like me that are raising their kids to be respectful and follow the rules.

These challenging little ones are going to grow up and they don't magically grow out of behaviors. And I can tell you from 6 years of first hand experience in early intervention that most parents don't seek any help for the issue until they are completely desperate or at the breaking point.

I don't believe any one of us on this board is obligated to keep a child that is misbehaving or to try to educate a parent who is the cause of it. I DO think that anyone that works with children and families has a unique opportunity to make a difference in the lives of the kids we provide services to. And the earlier you catch a behavior, the easier it is to "fix." (generally speaking)

[Blackcat31]

I recently attended a training where the speaker talked about a study he had conducted on kids with extreme behaviors. He talked about how every single child in a study he had conducted had behaviors that could be traced all the way back to the early childhood years. He also discussed being alarmed by the notes written in files. Teachers wrote things in the file such as, "Concerns about hitting but the child will outgrow it." The parent never learned how to handle it and the child was passed on to the next teacher year after year.

And then one day that child's behaviors became alarming. One day those behaviors turned from annoying frustrations into bullying that affected other kids. And at that point, it also ended up affecting parents like me that are raising their kids to be respectful and follow the rules.

These challenging little ones are going to grow up and they don't magically grow out of behaviors. And I can tell you from 6 years of first hand experience in early intervention that most parents don't seek any help for the issue until they are completely desperate or at the breaking point.

I don't believe any one of us on this board is obligated to keep a child that is misbehaving or to try to educate a parent who is the cause of it. I DO think that anyone that works with children and families has a unique opportunity to make a difference in the lives of the kids we provide services to. And the earlier you catch a behavior, the easier it is to "fix." (generally speaking)

I don't at all disagree with what you are saying however, I don't want to be "that" person if the parent isn't first. kwim?

If parents aren't working towards a resolution or even acknowledging that there is a problem then it's not my problem.

Harsh? Cold? Perhaps. But like I said. I am a child care provider not a special ed teacher or a therapist.

I have zero issues working through something WITH a parent but unless they are doing their part, I can't and won't do mine.

[Ariana]

I recently attended a training where the speaker talked about a study he had conducted on kids with extreme behaviors. He talked about how every single child in a study he had conducted had behaviors that could be traced all the way back to the early childhood years. He also discussed being alarmed by the notes written in files. Teachers wrote things in the file such as, "Concerns about hitting but the child will outgrow it." The parent never learned how to handle it and the child was passed on to the next teacher year after year.

And then one day that child's behaviors became alarming. One day those behaviors turned from annoying frustrations into bullying that affected other kids. And at that point, it also ended up affecting parents like me that are raising their kids to be respectful and follow the rules.

These challenging little ones are going to grow up and they don't magically grow out of behaviors. And I can tell you from 6 years of first hand experience in early intervention that most parents don't seek any help for the issue until they are completely desperate or at the breaking point.

I don't believe any one of us on this board is obligated to keep a child that is misbehaving or to try to educate a parent who is the cause of it. I DO think that anyone that works with children and families has a unique opportunity to make a difference in the lives of the kids we provide services to. And the earlier you catch a behavior, the easier it is to "fix." (generally speaking)

ONLY if the parents are on board. I recently read a study that concluded that troubled behaviors have nothing to do with caregivers/daycare and have everything to do with parents. The study was conducted to find out why children who attend daycare have more troubled behavior than kids who don't. When they controlled for time spent in daycare vs not in daycare they found that troubled behavior persisted with or without daycare influence. Hopefully that makes sense as I am paraphrasing. My own anecdotal evidence points to this as well. Parents who put their kids in daycare seem to think they forfeit all responsibility to the caregiver and make it up to them to discipline etc. They see their kids 3-4 hours a day if that and a lot of that time is spent making supper and putting to bed so discipline becomes time in front of the tv or ipad.

Parents are the #1 influence on kids and when you give advice time and time again with no cooperation from parents it gets old.