I Need Some Suggestions Please...

[Blackcat31]

I'll try to keep this short...LOL! I have a 3.5 yr old dcb who is tiny and is very coddled by everyone in his life. So we practice good table manners while eating (family style) and each child is expected to use those manners. 2 of my 3 yr old dcb's have trouble chewing with their mouths closed but one tries really hard to do it and I am confident he will get it in time no problem. He is good natured about it. But this other one, freaks if I say the words, "chew with your mouth closed". He starts to immediately throw a temper tantrum and cry as he says over and over, "I caaaaan't" With him, EVERYTHING is "I caaaan't" before he even tries anything. So lunch today went like this:

Me; "Adam, let's sit down for lunch"
Adam, "I don't want to. I'm full already"
Me; "Well, let's sit anyways."
Adam; "I caaaaaan't"

...and goes into loud wailing and crying and practically hyperventilating because although he does want to eat and is a great eater (likes everything) I know he is only freaking out because he knows we are going to practice eating with our mouths closed and the topic will come up during lunch. He is basically refusing to sit at breakfast, snack or lunch because he refuses to try. This has been going on for a while and I've had sit down conversations with him gently about the topic, I've demonstrated, had others demonstrate, and even encouraged him to the point of sounding rediculous and he still refuses. I am posting now because as of Wednesday of this week he has started refusing to come to the table at all. As soon as I start making lunch or preparing breakfast or snack, he starts to panic and cry! I know he is being stubborn because mom totally coddles him and treats him as a baby all the time, but I feel as though I am not asking him to be able to do it, I am only asking him to try and practice so that he will learn to do it. If I just ignore the battle and allow him to be at the table without bring it up, food will seriously fall out of his mouth and he spits food on others while talking with his mouth stuffed full so it is a huge problem for all the other kids. Plus, what kind of message is that sending tothe other kids about trying? "If you throw a big enough fit, you don't have to try anything." I am just at a loss for what to do.....

sorry, I guess that was long anyways!

[Zoe]

While I've never had a problem with getting kids to come to the table, I do encourage giving the kids choices. Would it help to explain to dcb that he needs to come to the table if he wants eat? If he doesn't come to the table, he can't eat. You mentioned that he's hungry, and though he's stressed out by the manners thing, I would imagine the idea of not eating would be enough to get him to come to you. It's his choice, come to the table now, or he doesn't eat. That sounds harsh, but it works for me.

As for the whining (which I hate and do NOT allow if I can help it), if you keep consistent and dcb sees that you aren't backing down or giving in, he will eventually understand that this sort of stuff isn't going to fly at your house like it does at his. I've got a very coddled 2.5 yr old dcg who stopped whining the first week when she realized that I wasn't a pushover like Mom is. The moment she starts, I bring it to her attention and she'll either stop or I put her down for a nap.

Something else I use with my whiners is a sticker chart. They get a sticker for every part of our day. For example, at the end of the day we line up and the kids get stickers on their charts for saying thank you without prompting, eating well at lunch time, playing well with others, staying quiet during nap/quiet time, and paying attention during circle time. They DO NOT get stickers if they whine during any of these times!

Sorry this is long! You're right. You don't want the other kids to think that if they throw a fit and whine that you'll give in. Oh my...can you imagine how your environment would be then?!? So don't give in! Keep doing what you're doing.

[AnythingsPossible]

Sounds like another case of the kid wanting to control the situation. If it were me, I would tell me we are going to sit down for lunch, you are welcome to eat or not, it is your choice. Since you have been discussing with all of them the issue of chewing with their mouth closed I would simply make a reminder statement at the beginning of the meal, and if he continues to eat with horrible manners, I would take his plate away, remind him he is not using his manners, give his plate back with the warning that it will be taken away if he can not eat properly. He may also just be doing it for the attention he gets though, so you could also seat him to eat after the rest are done. My reminder for our group of chewing with their mouths closed is I simply put my finger over my closed lips and mimic chewing. They all know what it means, and follow the example.
Is there a medical reason he chews with his mouth open? Does he have a hard time breathing through his nose? I had a kid like this once, not sure if it was medical or just habit, but he was a horrible mouth breather so he could not chew his food without opening his mouth. Gross.

[lvt77]

I have a big kids table for those that have great table manners, feet on floor under table, use manners (mouth closed), and proper tools...If they can't do this I tell them " I see you are not able to use your manners today, would you like to find them or would you like to sit in the booster seat at the table with the little kids. This usually gets them to stop whatever they are doing that in not exceptable at the big kid table... It sounds like the more you push the more he is going to pull....

[Blackcat31]

Is there a medical reason he chews with his mouth open? Does he have a hard time breathing through his nose? I had a kid like this once, not sure if it was medical or just habit, but he was a horrible mouth breather so he could not chew his food without opening his mouth. Gross.

Nope, no medical issues here...just parenting ones...LOL! Mom told me he eats where, when and whatever he wants at home (??)

I have a big kids table for those that have great table manners, feet on floor under table, use manners (mouth closed), and proper tools...If they can't do this I tell them " I see you are not able to use your manners today, would you like to find them or would you like to sit in the booster seat at the table with the little kids. This usually gets them to stop whatever they are doing that in not exceptable at the big kid table... It sounds like the more you push the more he is going to pull....

Yeah, I told him he would have to sit in high chair if he didn't want to eat (or try) like a big boy and he said he WANTS to sit in the high chair....I think he knows the baby isn't reminded of anything as far as manners go.....

I've been giving him the option of "trying" to use manners or not eating and he is choosing to not eat! I just don't get the stubborness of some kids.....When I did discuss with mom she said, "Well, I guess he will just have to wait to eat until he gets home. He will definately behungry!" Almost as if she couldn't careless if he eats or not.... I expected her to atleast try to brainstorm different ways WE could work together to solve the issue but I guess I was expecting waaay to much, huh?

[kendallina]

I was going to suggest that it might be something medical too...

My daughter has low muscle tone all over her entire body, including her mouth muscles. The therapist (speech and physical) thought after months of her not eating a lot and not gaining weight (and being diagnosed failure to thrive) that her mouth probably had low muscle tone and became tired very easily from chewing. We stared pureeing some of her food again and doing certain mouth 'exercises' with her and in time the strength of her mouth muscles is better and she can chew almost all foods now.

Something like a chewing or eating difficulty could easily go undiagnosed. Of course, not saying that it couldn't just be a control thing with him, but knowing what I know now about how these problems, I wouldn't rule it out.

ETA: Even if there is nothing physical going on with him, it really sounds like it's gone too far and I'd probably let up for a while. He obviously needs to eat and for whatever reason it's extremely important to him to chew with his mouth open. I'd probably let up and wait a couple of months. Does he have control issues elsewhere during the day?

[Blackcat31]

Does he have control issues elsewhere during the day?

The only issues he ever has is with not getting his way. He speaks very well, can dress and undress himself, has great small motor skills and can hop and jump with the best of them...he is just basically stubborn with a mom who allows horrendous behavior because it is easier......

So, I was thinking of maybe having him eat at another table separate of the others so he can see that he has to have a certain level of table manners in order to eat with the reat of the kids...would that be mean? (sadly, mom couldn't care less so I know she won't be offended by anything I do...)

[kendallina]

The only issues he ever has is with not getting his way. He speaks very well, can dress and undress himself, has great small motor skills and can hop and jump with the best of them...he is just basically stubborn with a mom who allows horrendous behavior because it is easier......

So, I was thinking of maybe having him eat at another table separate of the others so he can see that he has to have a certain level of table manners in order to eat with the reat of the kids...would that be mean? (sadly, mom couldn't care less so I know she won't be offended by anything I do...)

I personally don't think this is a 'punishable' offense at this age. I think our role is to teach them the proper way to behave, but not to punish if (for whatever reason) they aren't doing it properly yet. It's not hurting himself or anyone else and yeh, it's gross, but I'd continue to offer gentle reminders about it and maybe try again more intensively in a couple of months. Just my opinion...

Also, I can definitely understand your frustration over mom allowing awful behavior just because it's easier and I am NOT an advocate of doing that. I am very firm with my kiddos and have good follow through. But sometimes, if it's just not working, then it's just not working and the expectation might have to be re-evaluated.

[SandeeAR]

Post removed, to keep down further discord.

[Unregistered]

I am disgusted with 2 of the above suggestions. Separate the child from the rest of the group and force him to face a wall which only continues to make him feel less than his peers? Are you kidding???

True stubborness or trying to control a situation would not last and would not progress to where the child refuses to eat at ANY meal time. OP has embarrassed him or belittled him to the point where he would rather starve than sit at the table and hear a constant reminder of keeping his mouth closed. You, OP, have turned meal time into an anxiety filled event for this child. Do you even know a single adult that would not have anxiety or hesitation to eat a meal with someone who constantly reprimanded them DURING meal time? How unpleasant for a child and adults. How unpleasant for the others in your care who are subjected to this during mealtime and learning to "pick" on people who are not perfect.

It's not always the parents whose actions detrimentally affect the children. He's 3 and still learning how to get along in life and you are the one that needs to get over it. It's no wonder we have children so emotionally unstable and insecure in this world.

[lvt77]

I dont want to put anyone on blast here, but can I ask why this really matters so much....all kids learn at different rates. Would you punish a child if one 3 year old could write their name but the other 3 year old cannot? I say drop it...You are making a really big deal out of nothing. This kid is fearing food, something that he needs, not wants.... I bet you if you just ignor it, it will stop......

[SandeeAR]

And the turn of this thread already, is why I rarely post on here........This is another one to just turn and walk away from.

Isn't it amazing that most all the posts that turn/flame a thread come for someone that will log out and go as "unregistered"? If I'm going to post something, good or bad, I have the integrity to stand behind my post.

[Michael]

And the turn of this thread already, is why I rarely post on here........This is another one to just turn and walk away from.

Isn't it amazing that most all the posts that turn/flame a thread come for someone that will log out and go as "unregistered"? If I'm going to post something, good or bad, I have the integrity to stand behind my post.

I want to say something about this. What many of you have to understand in what is normally local or neighborhoodly in our customs and traditions is now under a microscope on a national and even global format with the internet. I think this forum is incredibly stable and understanding in light of this. We basically have opened the door to our house to everyone across a broad spectrum of nationalities and beliefs. Much of the broader internet chatter is somewhat uncivil IMO. I believe most of our members and nonmembers are having a conversation here that is mostly constructive.

[nannyde]

I want to say something about this. What many of you have to understand in what is normally local or neighborhoodly in our customs and traditions is now under a microscope on a national and even global format with the internet. I think this forum is incredibly stable and understanding in light of this. We basically have opened the door to our house to everyone across a broad spectrum of nationalities and beliefs. Much of the broader internet chatter is somewhat uncivil IMO. I believe most of our members and nonmembers are having a conversation here that is mostly constructive.

What he said

This isn't a mountain I would want to climb. I don't really care about the eating with their mouth open. I just want the food to eventually end up in the pie hole and down the hatch.

I would just have him lean over (hunch over) the plate/bowl when he eats and correct him if he's yabbing too much at the table.

I don't think I've ever introduced the concept of manners to a kid that young. I've never had a kid talk about another kids manner of eating. They see the babies eat in a messy way and don't say anything.

I focus on them actually eating without making a mess and them behaving at the table. A little talking between them is fine at the table as long as it doesn't interupt their eating the food in a reasonable amount of time.

No drama during meals is best.

[SandeeAR]

I want to say something about this. What many of you have to understand in what is normally local or neighborhoodly in our customs and traditions is now under a microscope on a national and even global format with the internet. I think this forum is incredibly stable and understanding in light of this. We basically have opened the door to our house to everyone across a broad spectrum of nationalities and beliefs. Much of the broader internet chatter is somewhat uncivil IMO. I believe most of our members and nonmembers are having a conversation here that is mostly constructive.

I do believe I understand that Michael, that is why I chose to walk away from a possible arguement thread. However, I felt it necessary to respond to yours, as I wanted you to know I DO understand that.