Close to Terming! Need Advice

[TXhomedaycare]

I have a dcb that is 3 but will be 4 yo next week that is essentially just spoiled but he has become a large problem. My issue is that he has at least 2 or 3 large tantrums throughout the day everyday and I can't take it a try longer. By large tantrum I mean he gets upset because he does not get his way (wants the toy everyone else has 99% of the time or won't follow directions and wants to do things on his terms) he kicks things or throws things and I move him to the hallway or away from the toys and others and then he yells at the top of his lungs for 15 or 30 minutes until he is exhausted. He is otherwise a good child but I am tI red of this daily ritual. I have sent him home 2 times and if he does it while anyone is sleeping I take him outside and tell him he cannot come in until he stops but I find myself neglecting the group for him and his problems way to often. He talks in whine almost all day and by Friday I have him napping and improved but on Monday he is a hot mess again. I have talked to his mother (she is always wanting advice, that she does not listen to ) Her excuse is that she is a first time mom and she recently had a divorce in which she moved out with her husband and about 3 months later moved in with her new boyfriend. This child has no schedule at all and his mom keeps saying she needs to work on that. His mom has told me he has been acting out at home as well (cursing the new boyfriend out and not following directions) but all she does is make excuses for him. She try to let him bring a toy or hat or something everyday that he does not need despite my multiple requests to stop. I hate giving up on him (I have already given up on dcm). Today is the first day that I am ready to term. A lot of this is venting but I really need advice. I have been watching him for a little over a year now and I need an exit strategy or a better way to handle him because I have tried what feels like everything.

[Ariana]

I had a child like this and after a LONG 7 months I just had to term. It came to a head for me when I had gotten caterpillars and we were all so excited when they turned into butterflies as we had watched them grow for so long. Well on the day we were to release them in the garden this kid was having major tantrums and I was completely stressed out. She completely ruined the day for everyone. I told mom that day that I was done.

Unfortunately for kids like this there is only so much you can do. Some parents just don't get it. They don't understand that they have a problem and that as this kid grows the problem will just get worse. It sounds like you are doing everything you can so you either keep on doing the same and enduring or term.

[Annalee]

From a recent TERMINATOR::I realize now how good daycare can be when I took action. Much much much much better without the terminated family! Good luck!

[childcaremom]

Been there and done that.

Dear Dcm,

The last day I am able to provide care for dcb is xxx.

Dcp

I would just hand that to her. Mom won't be surprised. You have had this convo with her before. I would only offer a brief statement if she wanted an explanation as to why. I would not enter into a discussion with her over it.

[Play Care]

Been there and done that.

Dear Dcm,

The last day I am able to provide care for dcb is xxx.

Dcp

I would just hand that to her. Mom won't be surprised. You have had this convo with her before. I would only offer a brief statement if she wanted an explanation as to why. I would not enter into a discussion with her over it.

This.

[childcaremom]

From a recent TERMINATOR::I realize now how good daycare can be when I took action. Much much much much better without the terminated family! Good luck!

It's been 3 weeks since I ended care for a dcg for different reasons and the day is SOOOOO much more enjoyable. I love my job again.

[rosieteddy]

I to would term.You have tried to talk with the parent to no avail.Hand her the note tomorrow and just think how great the New Year will be.

[Thriftylady]

Sounds to me like mom needs to stop making excuses and get her stuff in line and get her child under control. I wouldn't look at it as giving up on him. You can't make any progress if mom isn't trying to make progress at home. If it is affecting the rest of the group, then it is for the greater good to term. You may find you are a much happier provider afterwards.

[Rockgirl]

I was at that point earlier this year with a 3 yr old boy. I was spending a huge part of my day dealing with his behavior. His mom is a teacher and kept him home summers....I made up my mind that I would term at the end of the school year. Before I had the chance, she told me he would be starting preschool in the fall, so I didn't have to term--whew!

I think from reading your post, you are there. Once you hand off the papers, it's such a relief--that light at the end of the tunnel becomes visible!

[spedmommy4]

Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667

The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.

Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.

I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.

* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.

Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.

[Ariana]

Spedmommy4 I don't think any of us are quick to term. In my case I was at it for 7 months and in OP's case over a year!

I understand where you are coming from but a lot of times the parents at home are either too controlling or not paying enough attention to their kids. Kids are being raised by the "me me me" generation and then those kids come to us looking for the attention they aren't getting at home. The problem should not fall on us. Research shows that the more time children spend in childcare the worse behaviors become but that it is the parents behavior that is the best indicator of childhood behavioral problems, not daycare providers.

I did everything you suggested but nothing worked. I also wanted my daycare kids to ignore the tantrums but my own daughter would get so stressed by the chaos she would cry. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Blackcat31]

Spedmommy4 I don't think any of us are quick to term. In my case I was at it for 7 months and in OP's case over a year!

I understand where you are coming from but a lot of times the parents at home are either too controlling or not paying enough attention to their kids. Kids are being raised by the "me me me" generation and then those kids come to us looking for the attention they aren't getting at home. The problem should not fall on us. Research shows that the more time children spend in childcare the worse behaviors become but that it is the parents behavior that is the best indicator of childhood behavioral problems, not daycare providers.

While I agree with Spedmommy and the point she is trying to make (my kid was a tough kid too so I understand and empathize with the situation) but IME, when a provider reaches the point of asking for advice on whether to term or not, the answer usually is term simply because as providers most of us already try every single trick in our bags and a few things we never thought we'd resort to doing before finally throwing up our hands and posting.

In other words, I am betting OP already KNOWS she should term but was just wanting some confirmation. Just in case she missed anything

[Unregistered]

Based on the responses, I don't think mine is going to be popular. However, I feel like this is important information to share. I recently got this in an email: http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=2...B-03A9B3743667

The summary version is that kids are getting kicked out of preschool and childcare settings a lot. Boys are more than 4 times more likely than girls. I also recently attended a webinar on behavior where the presenter said that, in most cases, a child's behavior difficulties begin in preschool. And usually the child and behaviors get passed on to the next teacher, and the next with no real intervention.

Now, I don't know about all of you, but I have seen an enormous spike in troublesome childhood behaviors over the last 15 years. I have also seen a huge increase in parents who just don't seem to know how to discipline or be consistent. And based on the consistent increase, I fear it won't improve.

I know that sometimes terming is necessary. I had to term a 4 year old a few months back that needed services above and beyond what I could provide. But . . . I have a few tips for this situation and hope they help. Maybe someone else will have some other great tips too.

* try choices. "Dcb, you can do this or this." Don't give other options. Don't engage him beyond offering a choice.
* model appropriate social skills. "Dcb, ask Johnny for the toy." It is really important during the initial modeling phase that the positive strategies work. Dcb needs to learn that asking nicely gets the toy and being mean gets nothing. If other child says, no, you need a back up. For example, Suzy said no, you can get a timer or play with this other toy. (Again putting ball back in his court)
* ignore tantrums. Instruct other kids to ignore. Say out loud, we can play with dcb when he is done crying.
*if he is having difficulty following directions. Try giving short,simple clear, directions. Give them one at a time. If its refusal to follow directions, you can try a first/then strategy. For example, first you have to put on shoes and then we can go outside.

Hope this helps.
Sorry about the soapbox. My daughter was a three year old preschool rebel so I have a soft spot for the challenging kids now.

Things are getting worse. Parents don't dicipline and we have our hands tied on what we can do, besides term. Society has moved towards this with all the lax in dicipline. I have a 3 year old dcg lime this. I am going CRAZY. I need the $ though so I stick with it. I've tried everthing. When I asked the parents for help they took it as I don't want their daughter here. What do you do?

[Josiegirl]

Plus you have to consider what's best for the whole group. If one child is causing so much stress upon the provider and disrupting the group every single day, then what happens to those kids? They get stressed, lose sleep, become irritable, learn bad habits, and eventually might come to hate daycare. It's terrible to think of 'kicking out' a child BUT every single home provider has different dynamics going on in their unique group. If OP's group isn't working for this particular child, maybe the next one will.

I say these things with the thought that so much has already been tried and discussed with dcb and dcm. You also have to wonder if this has been brought to a head because of the dcb's confusion over his family's situation. A young child can't go through something like that without challenges.

[spedmommy4]

Things are getting worse. Parents don't dicipline and we have our hands tied on what we can do, besides term. Society has moved towards this with all the lax in dicipline. I have a 3 year old dcg lime this. I am going CRAZY. I need the $ though so I stick with it. I've tried everthing. When I asked the parents for help they took it as I don't want their daughter here. What do you do?

Exactly!!! I have a set of parents in their early 20's. They told me at a parent-teacher conference, "we just want our kids to like us." I believe that kids can learn that each environment has different expectations. I have parents who enforce the same rules that I do and parents who don't. I don't have any more significant behaviors from kids from "no rules" homes than I do from the consistent parents.

I spend a lot of time teaching the rules, teaching social skills, etc. A lot of what I use comes from the prevent, teach, reinforce handbook for young children. It was designed for special Ed but I see so much outrageous behavior in early childhood classrooms and childcares that it tends to work well for those setting too.

Based on what I've read in the forums, recruitment of new children is a huge challenge all over the country. And although I know sometimes you have to term, I love that we have this board so that we can share tips and tricks when we run out :-)